The ticking time bomb of the 99-year-leasehold HDB flats
#1

A letter published in the Straits Times claimed recently that the  promise of owning a 99-year-leasehold HDB (Housing & Development Board) flat as an investment for old age is no longer valid today. The letter writer, Ronnie Lim Ah Bee, pointed to the announcements by National Development Minister Lawrence Wong to bolster his claims.


Writing for his Ministry’s blog in March last year, Mr Wong asked HDB flat owners to not assume that all old HDB flats will become eligible  for Sers (Selective En bloc Redevelopment Scheme). He said that “only 4% of HDB flats have been identified for SERS since it was launched in 1995”, and that “it is only offered to HDB blocks located in sites with high redevelopment potential”.


About 70,000 flats (of the 1-million HDB flats) are more than 40 years old, and almost 10 percent of flats will face lease expiry in 50 years. The Minister’s announcement essentially means that such flats will have zero value once it reaches 99 years and owners will have to vacate their homes. Most owners will see the land their flat was on being returned to the State at the end of the 99-year-leasehold.


The letter writer said that “many seniors who want to downgrade to Built-To-Order studio apartments for the elderly are in a fix as they are unable to sell their old flats”, and that many such seniors “stand to lose their deposits on their new flat if they cannot sell their old  flat.”

More at https://www.bannedsite.com/forum/current...-hdb-flats
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#2

Another misguided article by person who never do research.

Until the lease ends the price follows the Bala curve.
Even with 20yrs left you can sell your flat at 30-40% of a full lease. Most people will die before it reaches zero. It is passed to children as inheritance and be sold off.

Assume person buys the flat at 30yo
After 60yrs, he will be 90 and the lease has 40yrs left.
Most people die by then and pass flat to their children. 
If they want to sell any time they can sell before this.
If they don't sell they pass it to their children when they die and children can still sell it.

The lease will not impact those who bought direct from HDB at all.

Se people buying old resale.flats with short lease left will be affected but they are fully aware when they bought the flat so they should prepare for the end of lease event.



[Image: l4cHsUD.jpg]

I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
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#3

U must in Heaven to have a concrete ceiling above ur head.

U r special, saint , isnt? Billions of people like u with feelings emotions, csn feel pain u know r homeless , subject to the rough tough elements day nite. Imagine u r a kid homeless, suffering from hunger everyday roaming wild in the streets
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#4

You will see more laokokoks sleep on the street when lease expires, Song Boh!

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
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#5

Hope price maintain high for me to Sell off everything when times come and stay in a Mobile Van with Solar and RO water machine.
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#6

I am not a fan of the govt but their housing policies is the right one. Most of the problems with housing long waiting times, high prices in popular areas are have root causes in population expansion not housing itself.

People who dislike the govt should not fear mongering on the 99 year lease issue because it us a waste of time and time is better spent on issues that can make a difference to lives of the people.

An elderly who bought flats from the govt 45yrs ago at $30K stayed in it for 45years is probably 80yo by now. He enjoyed 45years of living inside the flat and flat still has $200-400K value for the remaining leave which can be passed to his children or he can sell it and use the cash for to buy or rent a smaller place and use for retirement.

My mom bought her 2 room flat 40yrs ago and loely I will can also stay until I leave this earth- to generation. For the price is is a fantastic deal. It is ridiculous for people to demand en bloc, SERs so they can make more money out of a great deal for doing nothing.

As for people who say that govt should be freehold just look at the apartments in HK.

[Image: yUHZDvf.jpg]

Cost of maintenance goes up and will cost tax payers dearly. The govt is doing a great job with upgrading and maintenance but this effort cannot be extending forever. I went to Taiwan before and stayed in old apartment ..place was horrible...no govt can keep maintaining old decaying buildings the close is just unsustainable.

Having a lease allow for redevelopment to be done more easily and also shape expectations of occupants. Leaseholds are also cheap so you can use the money you save to have more cash for retirement and other things.

Singaporeans have a very selfish bias attitude towards property driven by self interest. Before they buy a property they complain prices are too high blame govt. After they buy they wish for it to go up so they make a profit. 

Everyone who buys a HDB know they are buying a leasehold and should plan accordingly. There should be no problem as 100yr lease is long enough for 2 generation.

I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
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#7

it'll be a massive and messy problem for the next generation to handle
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#8

i dont think its an issue with your grandma's $7k 3rm flat but it is an issue with the buyer of your grandma's house. STILL the buyer who paid $300k for your grandma's house can get lucky when the house is 60yrs old when another buyer who likes the house so much that he pays double for that original grandma's house because his work place is just downstairs.

but that convenience he cld risk losing $$$ when he feels like selling unless another n another.

so who is the one holding the ticking time bomb?
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#9

(01-06-2022, 08:29 AM)sgbuffett Wrote:  I am not a fan of the govt but their housing policies is the right one. Most of the problems with housing long waiting times, high prices in popular areas are have root causes in population expansion not housing itself.

People who dislike the govt should not fear mongering on the 99 year lease issue because it us a waste of time and time is better spent on issues that can make a difference to lives of the people.

An elderly who bought flats from the govt 45yrs ago at $30K stayed in it for 45years is probably 80yo by now. He enjoyed 45years of living inside the flat and flat still has $200-400K value for the remaining leave which can be passed to his children or he can sell it and use the cash for to buy or rent a smaller place and use for retirement.

My mom bought her 2 room flat 40yrs ago and loely I will can also stay until I leave this earth- to generation. For the price is is a fantastic deal. It is ridiculous for people to demand en bloc, SERs so they can make more money out of a great deal for doing nothing.

As for people who say that govt should be freehold just look at the apartments in HK.

[Image: yUHZDvf.jpg]

Cost of maintenance goes up and will cost tax payers dearly. The govt is doing a great job with upgrading and maintenance but this effort cannot be extending forever. I went to Taiwan before and stayed in old apartment ..place was horrible...no govt can keep maintaining old decaying buildings the close is just unsustainable.

Having a lease allow for redevelopment to be done more easily and also shape expectations of occupants. Leaseholds are also cheap so you can use the money you save to have more cash for retirement and other things.

Singaporeans have a very selfish bias attitude towards property driven by self interest. Before they buy a property they complain prices are too high blame govt. After they buy they wish for it to go up so they make a profit. 

Everyone who buys a HDB know they are buying a leasehold and should plan accordingly. There should be no problem as 100yr lease is long enough for 2 generation.

You can’t compare singapore with hongkong, these are private developer all they care abou it money. And the poor is being squeezed. The government then is from 🇬🇧 do you think if they are interested if Honkie is life or dead. In singapore  it is the government that the people voted in for a better life. If the government did the same to it people  do not care for the people,  why should the people  vote them in? To be screw like the Honkie? No right? The people shall know who to vote to care for them. 
Did Lky said not to sell our flat? It will appreciate in value?  And the possibility of upgrading …. Yes indeed but fall short of “losing value to zero… 
He just forgotten to mention the last par!, right? Or it is on purpose?
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#10

(01-06-2022, 08:29 AM)sgbuffett Wrote:  I am not a fan of the govt but their housing policies is the right one. Most of the problems with housing long waiting times, high prices in popular areas are have root causes in population expansion not housing itself.

People who dislike the govt should not fear mongering on the 99 year lease issue because it us a waste of time and time is better spent on issues that can make a difference to lives of the people.

An elderly who bought flats from the govt 45yrs ago at $30K stayed in it for 45years is probably 80yo by now. He enjoyed 45years of living inside the flat and flat still has $200-400K value for the remaining leave which can be passed to his children or he can sell it and use the cash for to buy or rent a smaller place and use for retirement.

My mom bought her 2 room flat 40yrs ago and loely I will can also stay until I leave this earth- to generation. For the price is is a fantastic deal. It is ridiculous for people to demand en bloc, SERs so they can make more money out of a great deal for doing nothing.

As for people who say that govt should be freehold just look at the apartments in HK.

[Image: yUHZDvf.jpg]

Cost of maintenance goes up and will cost tax payers dearly. The govt is doing a great job with upgrading and maintenance but this effort cannot be extending forever. I went to Taiwan before and stayed in old apartment ..place was horrible...no govt can keep maintaining old decaying buildings the close is just unsustainable.

Having a lease allow for redevelopment to be done more easily and also shape expectations of occupants. Leaseholds are also cheap so you can use the money you save to have more cash for retirement and other things.

Singaporeans have a very selfish bias attitude towards property driven by self interest. Before they buy a property they complain prices are too high blame govt. After they buy they wish for it to go up so they make a profit. 

Everyone who buys a HDB know they are buying a leasehold and should plan accordingly. There should be no problem as 100yr lease is long enough for 2 generation.




Your mom bought 2 rooms flat 

 40 years ago how much? Few ks?

Do not talk to a fool for he will scorn  the wisdom of your words 
☝️
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#11

(06-06-2022, 01:44 PM)Lukongsimi Wrote:  Your mom bought 2 rooms flat 

 40 years ago how much? Few ks?

I never ask her should be under 100k maybe 40k(?)
Should be enough lease left to stay until I die.
When lease end give back to govt  it js a great deal as stay inside for 99yrs and only pay that amount....

My whole life no need to pay rent.

Same with many Singaporeans who bought HDB. 

It is ridiculous yo get so much benefit for the price and ask for freehold conversion...or more money or gains.

I find this issue just shows the greed and reasonableness ....they buy a 99 leasehold and expect a freehold.

I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
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#12

what is LW is saying is 'look here, we 4G leaders are finding very hard to remake Spore. My predecessors made the hdb flats super sky high under PM Goh and Minister Mar-bok-tan in order to get votes again and again gave you guys false promises of your flat will appreciate to the moon! why you all so stoopid to believe papayas?
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#13

(06-06-2022, 03:48 PM)A2Z Wrote:  what is LW is saying is 'look here, we 4G leaders are finding very hard to remake Spore. My predecessors made the hdb flats super sky high under PM Goh and Minister Mar-bok-tan in order to get votes again and again gave you guys false promises of your flat will appreciate to the moon! why you all so stoopid to believe papayas?

Who ever bought during GCK and MBT period can sell now at a big profit.

Can tell me what is the problem?

They want to stay rent free for 99 years then still get a big sum of money?

I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
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#14

(06-06-2022, 03:52 PM)Choc Wrote:  So say thank you to PAP and stop your never ending nonsense about our government.

I have issues with other policies like foreign influx.

I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
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#15

Another ticking time bomb will be all those gls 99 years lease bid by private developers for shoebox condos. can't image how already shoebox size can trigger en-bloc into smaller size. That one you can apply your downward sloping chart which incidentally looking like an inverted yield curve for bonds.
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#16

(06-06-2022, 03:47 PM)sgbuffett Wrote:  I never ask her should be under 100k maybe 40k(?)
Should be enough lease left to stay until I die.
When lease end give back to govt  it js a great deal as stay inside for 99yrs and only pay that amount....

My whole life no need to pay rent.

Same with many Singaporeans who bought HDB. 

It is ridiculous yo get so much benefit for the price and ask for freehold conversion...or more money or gains.

I find this issue just shows the greed and reasonableness ....they buy a 99 leasehold and expect a freehold.

Heng Loh no flat’s burden

Do not talk to a fool for he will scorn  the wisdom of your words 
☝️
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#17

What is there to argue? 
You bought on a 99 lease. 
Not free hold. 
Times up, return to state.
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#18

(01-06-2022, 08:06 AM)RiseofAsia Wrote:  You will see more laokokoks sleep on the street when lease expires, Song Boh!

Unlikely
If they bought at the age of 25
By 99 years they already RIP
If price of resale HDB keeps increasing non stop they can sell before RIP
and downgrade to smaller unit.
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#19

(06-06-2022, 04:17 PM)Migrant Wrote:  What is there to argue? 
You bought on a 99 lease. 
Not free hold. 
Times up, return to state.

We bought on a 99 years lease because it is the govt's policy to make all property 99 years! We hv no choice! When mar-bok-tan became the Minister he made all gls 99 years. He made life so impossible to live until kenna voted out (with the lowest %) and Mr Khaw came in to fix it (cannot be undone too late). Govt has the unwritten responsibility to ensure all flats coming to end life sers. If no sers, then dont use cpf to support their housing scheme. cpf is for our retirement/old age.
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#20

(06-06-2022, 03:51 PM)sgbuffett Wrote:  Who ever bought during GCK and MBT period can sell now at a big profit.

Can tell me what is the problem?

They want to stay rent free for 99 years then still get a big sum of money?

We need to appreciate HDB indeed have gone a good job.
Old generations who bought 5 to 6 decades ago their flat value already appreciated
Normally no one will wait untill his or her flat has zero flat.
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#21

Years ago, my old neighbour in her 70s

also want to sell her current HDB for a Snr's apartment

but cannot. Now risk of falling, poor amenities around

she is stuck and now 80+

Why do we need 5 Mayors and 80 PAP Ministers? 
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#22

Sold my unit without COV
First viewer grabbed.
If selling price is too high
then waiting game is on.
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#23

your fully paid house is your cash converter.
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#24

To be fair, what govt said about lease decay is to rein in the speculation of old HDB flats. You rather all old HDB flats sell at $1m after 50 years or you want resale housing to remain affordable? Can't have best of both worlds.
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#25

(06-06-2022, 07:34 PM)starbugs Wrote:  To be fair, what govt said about lease decay is to rein in the speculation of old HDB flats. You rather all old HDB flats sell at $1m after 50 years or you want resale housing to remain affordable? Can't have best of both worlds.

Now they made it worse. People will sell immediately after MOP.
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#26

https://youtu.be/v7QEQ_7cLC0?list=RDHBXRYj4GjEQ
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#27

Lim Ah Bee is a ex teacher who taught in a govt school at Macpherson Road, if not mistaken is now 77 years old....
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#28

(06-06-2022, 07:34 PM)starbugs Wrote:  To be fair, what govt said about lease decay is to rein in the speculation of old HDB flats. You rather all old HDB flats sell at $1m after 50 years or you want resale housing to remain affordable? Can't have best of both worlds.

To be fair, it is under PM Goh that they stir up the upside potential of their HDB flats. They created the hype that got out of control because any old flats will get sers. History of hdb flats were to stay until conk out. Very beginning of hdb flats was mop 3 years, can swap units, 140% of posted price ( old relative told me). The poor family who stayed in 3 rm flat sold at 140% posted price to take out money from the sale. There were many 999/FH walk up private flats.  So called squatter land was taken back by the govt only to sell to private developers after decades (not all). It was under Minister Marbok-tan that the whole landscape was changed.
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