SG Talk

Full Version: Experts refute Israel's claims on Gaza hospital attack
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
it was a US made mk84 israeki bomber
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvoVwDPYfec
Never believe anything. It is a war in which both sides will accuse each other. Those media and countries representatives that pro-Russian will say the bomb that hit the Gaza hospital is from Israel and those that peo-US will say otherwise.
every tom dick and hairy is an expert.
Lack of a crater means a proximity fuse was used to detonate. These are found in more sophisticated bombs.

This is seen from picture....it is not expert or non expert....it is basic knowledge.

You see where the bomb detonate the "crater" is not a hole just a marking on the floor. This imply proximity fuse that makes the bomb detonate before it hits the ground. This makes it more effective as it does not waste energy creating a big hole in the ground.

Such a fuse is found in American weapons sold to Israel.

[Image: DpNW8a9.jpg]
(20-10-2023, 06:56 AM)revealer Wrote: [ -> ]Never believe anything.  It is a war in which both sides will accuse each other.  Those media and countries representatives that pro-Russian will say the bomb that hit the Gaza hospital is from Israel and those that peo-US will say otherwise.

Precisely.  Afterall that is said and done, no minds are changed.  Total waste of time Big Grin

Those that are Hamas sympathizers will still remain so.  No point arguing with them too much. 

But I am very surprised that even in usually peaceful and placid SgTalk have these type of thinking and terrorist supporters Big Grin
(20-10-2023, 07:41 AM)K88 shu shu Wrote: [ -> ]every tom dick and hairy is an expert.

lidat I oso try my hand @ being armchair expert. If u see the foto above, the damage iz consistent with what IDF claims happened. The rocket from the Jihadists exploded midair and the broken up fuselage/fireball hit the hospital causing fire carnage that burnt the cars but unlike explosives from  bombs, was not forceful enough to scatter the vehicles. See,  1 car was flattened, the rest all look burnt but relatively unmoved. Any other type of bomb however sophisticated would have produced a much bigger impact than just chow tar vehicles parked on the same spot.  Nerd
Also not to forget in this day and age of super realistic fakes and how can any "evidence" be credible anymore
Oso, 1 hospital can house how many people @ 1 time? If hospital structure still standing and largely not burnt how did 500 pple die?

Quote:FOOTAGE OF THE BLAST

It was the Middle-Eastern television channel Al Jazeera which broadcast the first footage of this explosion. It was then geo-located by investigative journalists who narrowed down the location of the fire to outside the hospital.

An Al Jazeera live feed also showed a rocket being fired in the air and appearing to disintegrate. One of its pieces then landed close to the hospital. This footage was verified by its time-stamp.

The fireball caused by the explosion was also consistent with the propellant from a misfired rocket setting alight, rather than a functioning warhead detonating on landing.

Subsequently Israeli security surveillance camera footage from a Gaza/Israel border crossing point showed a salvo of missiles fired from western Gaza. A rocket is seen splitting into two, followed by a large explosion a few seconds later. The rocket is only airborne for 20 seconds.

It also emerged the US has its own information which points to a faulty Palestinian rocket, including satellite and infrared data showing its launch and pattern of flight. This was alluded to by the US's National Security Council in a media briefing yesterday.
Hundreds of people were feared dead after an explosion at a hospital in the Gaza Strip on Oct. 17, a little over a week after the Palestinian group Hamas staged a terrorist attack on Israel that killed 1,400 people and led Israel to declare war and begin bombing the territory.

Hamas, which controls Gaza, blamed the blast on an Israeli airstrike.

Israel said it was caused by an errant rocket fired by another armed group, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, which denied the assertion.

And on Wednesday, President Biden backed Israel’s position, citing “the data I was shown by my Defense Department.”

The competing claims have not been independently verified. The New York Times is working to assess the various accounts through an analysis of photos, video footage and other evidence, as well as on-the-ground interviews.

Here is what we know so far about the explosion at the Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza City.

What do we know about the death toll?
American intelligence agencies have assessed that between 100 and 300 people were killed, U.S. officials said Thursday. The officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, did not say what intelligence led them to that estimate, and cautioned that it could change.

On the night of the explosion, the Hamas-run Gazan health ministry put the toll at 500 or more dead, which it later changed to “hundreds.” No figure could be confirmed independently, but images from the hospital verified by The Times and witness accounts made clear that it was high.

Mohammad Abu Selim, the head of the nearby Shifa Hospital, said in an interview hours after the blast that 150 to 200 people killed in the explosion were taken to his hospital, along with about 300 people who had been wounded. He said he had no official tally of the dead because of the terrible condition of many of the bodies.

The next morning, the Israeli military said the number of casualties reported by Hamas was inflated, citing intelligence without elaborating. The Gazan health ministry said later on Wednesday that 471 people had been killed and hundreds more injured. Those figures could not be independently confirmed.

Reactions to the Conflict in the U.S.
Jewish Americans: For many American Jews, there have been too many emotions to process. Young people spoke of fear, shock, solidarity and helplessness.
Palestinian Americans: U.S. Palestinians are dismayed by the violence, but some said that politicians and news outlets are overlooking historical context.
Democrats: President Biden’s handling of the conflict has been met with praise by centrists in his party, but tensions on the left are growing.
Harvard University: A coalition of more than 30 student groups posted an open letter blaming Israel for the Hamas attacks. Within days, students affiliated with those groups found themselves at the center of a free speech controversy.
The hospital is run by the Anglican Church and overseen by Archbishop Hosam Naoum, who said that in recent days, large numbers of Gazans had taken shelter there to escape Israeli airstrikes. The hospital usually has 80 beds, according to the diocese website.

What did the United States government say?
Adrienne Watson, a spokeswoman for the National Security Council, said Wednesday that the U.S. government “assesses that Israel was not responsible for an explosion that killed hundreds of civilians yesterday at the Al Ahli Hospital in the Gaza Strip.”

“Our assessment is based on available reporting, including intelligence, missile activity and open-source video and images of the incident,” she said, adding that the United States was continuing to collect information.

Ms. Watson said the intelligence indicated that some Palestinian fighters in the Gaza Strip believed the explosion had likely been caused by an errant rocket or missile launch carried out by Palestinian Islamic Jihad. “The militants were still investigating what had happened. We continue to work to corroborate whether the explosion resulted from a failed P.I.J. rocket,” she said.

American officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive information, said that multiple strands of early intelligence, including infrared satellite data, show a launch of a rocket or missile from Palestinian fighter positions within Gaza. They cautioned that the analysis was preliminary.

A senior Defense Department official said that, based on data collected by infrared sensors, the United States was “fairly confident” the launch did not come from Israeli forces.

Israel-Hamas War: Live Updates
Updated
Oct. 19, 2023, 7:09 p.m. ET1 hour ago
1 hour ago
Biden will argue that U.S. national security interests require supporting Israel and Ukraine, aides say.
A Hamas leader says not all of the Israeli hostages are being held by his group.
At a hospital in southern Gaza, a backup generator becomes a critical lifeline.
What did Palestinian Islamic Jihad say?
Palestinian Islamic Jihad, whose members participated in the Hamas-led attacks on Israel on Oct. 7, denied that an errant rocket from its arsenal had caused the explosion.

In an interview with The Times on Wednesday, a spokesman for the group, Musab Al-Breim, said that the capacity of their weapons supply was “primitive.”

In a statement on Tuesday, the group said video footage and the extent of the destruction showed that the blast was caused by an Israeli aerial bombardment.

The group’s military wing posted a message on Telegram at 7:09 p.m. on the night of the explosion saying it had fired a barrage of rockets toward Israel — just minutes after the blast occurred.

But the spokesman said the timing of posts did not always indicate the timing of launches.

He acknowledged that errant rockets from the military wing had killed Palestinians in the past. “We have made mistakes, I am not going to deny it,” he said. “However, not mistakes of this size.”

What did the Israeli army say?
Citing aerial footage, photos taken in the aftermath of the explosion and recordings it said were of Hamas members, the Israeli military said on Wednesday that the blast was caused by a rocket that misfired after being launched by Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, the chief spokesman for the Israeli military, said the Palestinian group fired 10 rockets at 6:59 p.m. on the night of the explosion, and that one of them fell to earth prematurely, hitting a parking lot outside the hospital.

He denied that Israel had fired any ordnance in the area of the hospital at that time.

He cited a photo of the parking lot that was posted on social media on Wednesday morning that he said did not show the kind of crater that would have been caused by an Israeli missile. The photo shows the effects of a fire — burned-out cars and scorched ground — that he said was caused by rocket fuel.

He also showed an aerial image that he said was taken from a military drone overnight and said there was no evidence in it of such a crater either. (U.S. intelligence agencies have assessed that there was only light structural damage to buildings and no impact craters at the hospital, U.S. officials said.)

A freelance videographer working for The Times who visited the scene the day after the explosion filmed footage showing a small impact crater. Other images show the same, including the Israeli military’s aerial photo. It is still unclear whether the crater is related to the explosion and if any conclusions can be drawn from it.

Admiral Hagari dismissed suggestions that the strike was caused by an errant Israeli air defense interceptor; he said Israel does not fire air defense missiles into Gazan airspace.

The admiral played a recording of what he said was a wiretapped conversation between two Hamas members, in which one speaker says the damage was caused by a rocket fired by Palestinian Islamic Jihad from a cemetery near the hospital. The Times is assessing the material and has not verified the conversation.

What did Hamas say?
In a statement, Hamas said the explosion was “a horrific massacre” and “a crime of genocide” caused by an Israeli airstrike.

The Ahli Arab Hospital had been hit previously by rocket fire on Oct. 14, according to the Gazan health ministry and video footage verified by The Times. The Anglican Church said in a statement that four staff members were injured in that blast.

Yousef Abu al-Rish, the top official for the Gazan health ministry, said at a news conference on Tuesday night that the Israeli military had called the hospital director and told him that the earlier blast had been a warning to evacuate.

On Wednesday, Archbishop Naoum said that the Israeli military had called and texted the hospital managers at least three times since Oct. 14, asking its patients and staff to leave the hospital compound.

Archbishop Naoum said the warnings were particular to the hospital, and not part of Israel’s wider push to encourage civilians to leave northern Gaza for the territory’s south.

“There were specific warnings to get out of the building,” the archbishop said.

Lt. Col. Amnon Shefler, an Israeli military spokesman, said the calls to the hospital were part of a wider campaign to urge civilians to leave northern Gaza ahead of an expected Israeli invasion. Colonel Shefler said the hospital was not a target for the military.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/18/world...ained.html
No need experts to tell us nonsense. Straight away can tell it is NOT Israel that bombed the hospital but Islamic terrorists that misfired from near the hospital and landed at the carpark. Small makeshift rocket fired nearby, that is why there was no hugh crater. If it is the Israel’s rocket, there will be a hugh crater and the hospital will be damaged and collapsed