SG Talk

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Is there a decimal place error? $34 trillion debt divided by 340m Americans is about $100k, not $1mil.

First,  the sum is wrong.  The US population is 333 million.  34 Trilliondivide by 333 million is
$102,102 per person

Second, what is the problem when one's total asset is $269 Trillion ($ 807,807 per person) and the total debt is $145 Trillion ($435,435 per person)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_...ted_States

(24-06-2024, 03:21 PM)starbugs Wrote: [ -> ]Is there a decimal place error? $34 trillion debt divided by 340m Americans is about $100k, not $1mil.

I noticed that too before posting. But posted because of the contents of the article.

(24-06-2024, 03:51 PM)Levin Wrote: [ -> ]I noticed that too before posting. But posted because of the contents of the article.

BTW, there's an additional 45 trillion of unfunded obligation not included in the 37 trillion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_d...ted_States

(24-06-2024, 03:28 PM)teaserteam Wrote: [ -> ]Second, what is the problem when one's total asset is $269 Trillion ($ 807,807 per person) and the total debt is $145 Trillion ($435,435 per person)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_...ted_States

First, the article is referring to government debts, not those stuff owed by US businesses and citizens so it is not about the total financial position of the country but rather just the government. So similarly, assets by businesses and citizens should not be considered.

So a more appropriate wiki article to link to should be this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_d...ted_States

(24-06-2024, 04:06 PM)Levin Wrote: [ -> ]First, the article is referring to government debts, not those stuff owed by US businesses and citizens so it is not about the total financial position of the country but rather just the government. So similarly, assets by businesses and citizens should not be considered.

So a more appropriate wiki article to link to should be this: 

The Government debt always has a ceiling under the constitution .  Pushing the government debt higher and higher will become a problem only when the total debt nearing or exceeding the total asset.  That is when US becomes a bankrupt.

(24-06-2024, 03:21 PM)starbugs Wrote: [ -> ]Is there a decimal place error? $34 trillion debt divided by 340m Americans is about $100k, not $1mil.

After some thought, I have "corrected" the thread title although it may cause some confusion due to the difference with the article title.

(24-06-2024, 04:34 PM)revealer Wrote: [ -> ]The Government debt always has a ceiling under the constitution .  Pushing the government debt higher and higher will become a problem only when the total debt nearing or exceeding the total asset.  That is when US becomes a bankrupt.

The US government debt ceiling is way above the US government's total assets.

https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/reports-...tml#chart4


The debt ceiling is just a figure to limit borrowings. I find it to be not very useful as it kept getting raised. I think the ceiling can go up until when the US government cannot pay the interest of the debt, not when they cannot pay the principal.

I think one use for it is to create tension when the opposition party tried to get some goodies by refusing to raise the ceiling.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debt-ceiling.asp

Need to differentiate the difference btw the US total asset and debt and the Government & National assets and debt. As US is also a financial centre, the foreign deposits or assets can become the National debt. Just take S’pore Government for example, it claimed it has zero Government debt but it has few hundred billions of National debt.

I don’t think they care, nor does it matter, just snowball on to the next presidential administration and the next war.. the next war… the next war

USD is still the premier currency of choice around the world

Not tt they dun care. They r fighting everyday about their spending and about their debt ceiling. But they hv plenty of pil money to spend.

debt ceiling is just a way to fool people to believe that the usd is credible.
see we no any how increased our debt level. but every time it is breach it is raised.
each party will try to get their favourite agenda to be ok for the raised.

it is a musical chair waiting to see who has no chair to sit sit.

not that us gov will go bankrupt. it can always print more. it is just that one day more and more people will abandon usd and it will depreciate.

that is the real difficulty that fed faces. not inflation. inflation is good for the us gov. it will leads to gdp growth. pay roll growth etc. that will boost the us gov income. only the reitred and man on the street suffers as it is indirect tax that lower their buying power. so more strike etc. to try to balance the play for more wages.

run for gold, precious metals, bit coins. arts, tangible asset mix with liquid asset.

the day will come when usd will go down quickly like the uk pounds. there will be no more global currency but a group of more trusted currencies for international payment. potential, usd, euro, cny, yen,

The guy who came up with Debt ceiling in the US Congress is very smart. He knows his work well. He devised this effective tool 4 the opposition party to use. When Republican is government, Democrats will use it to control Republicans and vice versa. As a result, they managed to control Government expenditure. Just compare the expenditures of these 2 countries u will know

(24-06-2024, 07:51 PM)revealer Wrote: [ -> ]The guy who came up with Debt ceiling in the US Congress is very smart. He knows his work well. He devised this effective tool 4 the opposition party to  use.  When Republican is government,  Democrats will use it to control Republicans and  vice versa. As a result,  they managed to control Government expenditure.  Just compare the expenditures of these 2 countries u will know

This is a really BAD comparison the way you intended. China before 1992 was still mainly communist in its economy. 

As China move on to capitalism, its gdp grow rapidly and earn much more thus its spending grow much much more from its low base. This is reflected in the diagram you posted.

U go watch TikTok all millionaires say debt is good. It's what makes them rich. U say leh?

(24-06-2024, 08:09 PM)animeonegai Wrote: [ -> ]U go watch TikTok all millionaires say debt is good. It's what makes them rich. U say leh?

Not always. During low interest rates period, debt is fantastic for individuals. But when interest rates go high, it is not good, especially for governments.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/202...-inflation

(24-06-2024, 07:57 PM)Levin Wrote: [ -> ]This is a really BAD comparison the way you intended. China before 1992 was still mainly communist in its economy. 

As China move on to capitalism, its gdp grow rapidly and earn much more thus its spending grow much much more from its low base. This is reflected in the diagram you posted.

We will c how it will go in a decade. Quite sure one with control will b better in the longer run.  Just to illustrate debt ceiling is not useless.

(24-06-2024, 08:31 PM)revealer Wrote: [ -> ]We will c how it will go in a decade. Quite sure one with control will b better in the longer run.  Just to illustrate debt ceiling is not useless.

It's not completely useless which is what we have both stated. Good for the opposition to 'blackmail' some goodies from the governing party.

The. China debt problem has just started. It started to grow when the property bubble bursted in 2021. According to this article, China’s debt is growing at a rate 2 times the GDP and the Government debt is growing at 3 times the GDP. The local government debt is snow-balling. Soon Central Government spendings will escalate

https://k.sina.cn/article_7757693487_1ce...om=finance&kdurlshow=1&sinawapsharesource=newsapp&wm=3200_0024

buy btc , one btc 10m...

Eventually US debt will come back to hauntvthem but that date may be 10-20yrs away as US dollar still dominates.

By then don't know if money still matters as AI take over our lives.

(25-06-2024, 01:18 AM)victortan Wrote: [ -> ]buy btc , one btc 10m...

BTC is not a business. It's not considered a collector's item. It does not generate revenue. How can it be worth so much?

(24-06-2024, 04:58 PM)revealer Wrote: [ -> ]Need to differentiate the difference btw the US total asset and debt and the Government  & National assets and debt. As US is also a financial centre,  the foreign deposits or assets can become the National debt.  Just take S’pore Government  for example,  it claimed it has zero Government debt but it has few hundred billions of National debt.

That is why it is pointless to compare the National debts or Government debts as the International accounting rules require all foreign deposits and assets to be considered debts.  The better comparison is the domestic debts especially those in private sectors and look only at those credits from the banks.  This is because the private sector is always the economy's driving force and the banks are where they get the most money to run their businesses.  Also,  bank credits demand higher interest rates and their banking businesses affect the economy. The World Bank data only goes up to 2020. Likely that the 2024 figure will show a higher China's domestic debt.

(25-06-2024, 08:25 AM)Levin Wrote: [ -> ]All foreign deposits and assets are considered part of national debt. But they are not part of government's debt. For example, Singapore's external debt is 1.7+ trillion but the government overall debt is 400+ billion.

Regarding comparison, the article is not about comparing various countries' economies or debts etc, it is about why the US private sector (businesses and citizens) may have to pay the debt when the US government cannot pay the government debts because the majority of the assets are private in USA.

Agree but the Government usually just functions like an administrator.  The private sector is the driving force for the economy.  Besides,  not many of us know from the broad debt figure about how the Government apportioned their funds and money and how much is for the promotion of economic growth.

Don't understand your other point.  If the article is not talking about the economy then why talk about debts?  They are inseparable,  for example,  you can't talk about the company's health without referring to its assets and debts.  There is also no meaning in just comparing the Government debts as their accounting can be very different depending on how they run the country,  their ideology,  and their administrative setup.  Take for example, the US have very high military expenditure and it pushed up their Government debts but they think it is worth the while to spend so much.