Ideally a society is able to make well informed decisions to avoid divisions.
However that is not case. If an individual chooses to.smoke and drink alot of alcohol because he knows of one person who lived to 90 smoking and insists it has no negative effect on himself ...it is impossible to dig him out of the misinformation and he will get angry when you reason with him. However his heavy drinking and smoking can only destroy him and his family not others. Insurance companies who know the scientific stats will make him pay more to penalise him for his stupid.
But when it comes to vaccination...an unvaccinated person not only harm.himself and.his family when he contract severe Covid19, he will also be more likely to infect others as covid19 is an infectious disease.
It is more like PMD speeding on walkways where one person's mistake and misinformation will cause death of others.
The battle against COVID19 may be a long drawn one... the negative impact on jobs and businesses will cause suffering for many. We need to be firm in our fight. The luxury of dithering and entertaining irrational fears is something we cannot afford.
![[Image: NLRBKGW.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/NLRBKGW.jpg)
so confirm, sgbutt (vacinated) have been spreading not only lies online, but sapreading the actual disease as he is vacinated..according to latest cdc report
(08-08-2021, 10:09 AM)singaporean1964 Wrote: [ -> ]so confirm, sgbutt (vacinated) have been spreading not only lies online, but sapreading the actual disease as he is vacinated..according to latest cdc report
That's Ah Butt's usual modus operandi. Posted some outdated news, twist the info and finally propagate lies..........
Actually, so many news all over can be confusing.
Even ST News also reported that unvaccinated is more than twice likely to be re- infected. To my understanding, this group will also be more than twice likely to spread, lor.
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/unite...cted-study
(08-08-2021, 09:41 AM)sgbuffett Wrote: [ -> ]Read beyond the headline. This is what the researcher said when questioned
![[Image: ayjr6AD.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/ayjr6AD.jpg)
https://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/de...s-faqs.php
I am refuting your claim that the unvaxxed are "
more likely to infect others (your headline, your words, not mine)"
I am not saying vaccination got no advantage.
Your argument to restrict unvaccinated because they are more likely to infect others make no sense at all.... because fully vaxxed also as likely to infect others.
(08-08-2021, 09:18 AM)sgbuffett Wrote: [ -> ]Ideally a society is able to make well informed decisions to avoid divisions.
However that is not case. If an individual chooses to.smoke and drink alot of alcohol because he knows of one person who lived to 90 smoking and insists it has no negative effect on himself ...it is impossible to dig him out of the misinformation and he will get angry when you reason with him. However his heavy drinking and smoking can only destroy him and his family not others. Insurance companies who know the scientific stats will make him pay more to penalise him for his stupid.
But when it comes to vaccination...an unvaccinated person not only harm.himself and.his family when he contract severe Covid19, he will also be more likely to infect others as covid19 is an infectious disease.
It is more like PMD speeding on walkways where one person's mistake and misinformation will cause death of others.
The battle against COVID19 may be a long drawn one... the negative impact on jobs and businesses will cause suffering for many. We need to be firm in our fight. The luxury of dithering and entertaining irrational fears is something we cannot afford.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/co...it-2097036
Last 14 days... P&M continue to be broken through.
But let's hope the benefits continue to outweigh the risks...
![[Image: mohfig11.png]](https://i.ibb.co/TT19tfq/mohfig11.png)
Salah, once the vaccinated get infected they are even more likely to spread Delta as they display little or no symptoms. At least dis is what our own experts believe, and judging by the rate of infection here after the vaccination rollout it is more likely the reality.
The vaccinated might recover faster but not all do so and those with underlying illnesses will still get critically ill or uplorry.
General knowledge. If you are an asympomatic, you don't cough and sneeze as much as those serious infected which has their lungs attacked by Covid-19. What is there to argue about? If you cannot understand this logic. then 没药可救。
(08-08-2021, 12:09 PM)revealer Wrote: [ -> ]General knowledge. If you are an asympomatic, you don't cough and sneeze as much as those serious infected which has their lungs attacked by Covid-19. What is there to argue about? If you cannot understand this logic. then 没药可救。
Less symptoms to no symptoms, not the same as completely no symptoms. That means you might sniffle a bit, breathe heavier, cough abit but still feel fine and go about your daily routine. Because Delta is more infectious, those around you will tio unwittingly. Of course if the symptoms are heavier, the transmission is stronger. However the sick will seek medical help earlier and spread to less people.
seriously forF UCK Fook's sake
just coz you vanianted doesnt mean you cannot kenna and cannot SPREAD...
in fact the vaccinated nowadays are too complacent. no masks , no personal hygiene,e tc
someone posted this in HWZ . fully agree...
- An untested vaccine is an untested vaccine. It doesn't matter if it's mRNA or traditional vaccine.
- Millions of people rushing to be guinea pigs, no reason for me to volunteer.
- If there are long term issues with the vaccines, waiting for 1 year increases the probability that it would be discovered in other people first. And increases the probability that if it can be treated, they might find the treatment before I get affected by the long term issues.
- In absolute terms, the 99% efficacy vaccine actually only reduces the chances of getting COVID by around 1%. Stay home as much as possible; always wear mask and stay away from crowds when need to go out, would offer similar protection in the short run before COVID becomes endemic
- Nobody is offering to safeguard my family's quality of life and income level if after getting vaccinated, I die from any-currently-unknown-cause-but-not-the-vaccine.
restriction is good because after some time, we'll be able to see the effects and a lot of unknowns will be cleared up and better policies can be made. and forumers here aso no need to argue baselessly
not to mention, how is PAP going to stop the fake certs from coming in?
foreigners have a cert then they come here and are suppose to upload the results to some app/ database..
but in India, is it not possible to bribe someone to enter the system and claim you are vacinated??
and why cant the vacianted visit hospital wards?
vacianted means invincible right?
(08-08-2021, 12:25 PM)wendychan Wrote: [ -> ]not to mention, how is PAP going to stop the fake certs from coming in?
foreigners have a cert then they come here and are suppose to upload the results to some app/ database..
but in India, is it not possible to bribe someone to enter the system and claim you are vacinated??
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fake-covid-...3?mod=e2fb
(08-08-2021, 12:56 PM)wendychan Wrote: [ -> ]and why cant the vacianted visit hospital wards?
vacianted means invincible right?
Let me explain again. The vaccines are not perfect but improve your chances and reduce the harm caused by COVID-19.
There are vaccinated who still get infected and fall I'll but it is better than being Unvaccinated.
Even if vaccinated we need to have precautions as the vaccine is not perfect.
(08-08-2021, 12:23 PM)wendychan Wrote: [ -> ]someone posted this in HWZ . fully agree...
- An untested vaccine is an untested vaccine. It doesn't matter if it's mRNA or traditional vaccine.
- Millions of people rushing to be guinea pigs, no reason for me to volunteer.
- If there are long term issues with the vaccines, waiting for 1 year increases the probability that it would be discovered in other people first. And increases the probability that if it can be treated, they might find the treatment before I get affected by the long term issues.
- In absolute terms, the 99% efficacy vaccine actually only reduces the chances of getting COVID by around 1%. Stay home as much as possible; always wear mask and stay away from crowds when need to go out, would offer similar protection in the short run before COVID becomes endemic
- Nobody is offering to safeguard my family's quality of life and income level if after getting vaccinated, I die from any-currently-unknown-cause-but-not-the-vaccine.
(08-08-2021, 12:18 PM)luncheonmeat Wrote: [ -> ]Less symptoms to no symptoms, not the same as completely no symptoms. That means you might sniffle a bit, breathe heavier, cough abit but still feel fine and go about your daily routine. Because Delta is more infectious, those around you will tio unwittingly. Of course if the symptoms are heavier, the transmission is stronger. However the sick will seek medical help earlier and spread to less people.
Who said asymptomatic patients do not spread Covid; they are talking about asymptomatic also spread as much as those infected. Seeking medical attention and help earlier does not mean it will spread to less people. If the lung is being attack, it will take time to heal; Covid will spread unless the patient has been certified free of Covid by a antibody test.. the true result might take longer than we thought.
(08-08-2021, 12:23 PM)wendychan Wrote: [ -> ]someone posted this in HWZ . fully agree...
- An untested vaccine is an untested vaccine. It doesn't matter if it's mRNA or traditional vaccine.
- Millions of people rushing to be guinea pigs, no reason for me to volunteer.
- If there are long term issues with the vaccines, waiting for 1 year increases the probability that it would be discovered in other people first. And increases the probability that if it can be treated, they might find the treatment before I get affected by the long term issues.
- In absolute terms, the 99% efficacy vaccine actually only reduces the chances of getting COVID by around 1%. Stay home as much as possible; always wear mask and stay away from crowds when need to go out, would offer similar protection in the short run before COVID becomes endemic
- Nobody is offering to safeguard my family's quality of life and income level if after getting vaccinated, I die from any-currently-unknown-cause-but-not-the-vaccine.
These people are anti-Vaxxes. They are trying to find excuse. Who said Covid vaccines are untested? What are those efficacy and safety trial test in 3 phases involving at leat 30,000 people means? Playing monopoly game? Simply guessing the outcome of the safety and efficacy?
The vaccine are admitted under emergency usage does not mean they are not safe for use. It is only true that their long term effect has not been determined through aging test. Todate, there are more than 4 billions doses administered.
Anyway, anti0-vaxxers will find all sort of reason to prove they are right until the day...and it will come sooner. It is stupid for anyone to remind them again and again only if they don't spread misinformation.
both the vax and unvax are more likely to infect others.
Just getting amazed by all this witch hunting on those who are not vaccinated..
Let take the info from this article as our point of discussion..
1) For someone who is fully vaccinated, it reduce the risk of infection by 91 percent (ie there is a 9% chance that you will still get infected).
2) For a fully vaccinated person, there is no diff in term of risk between an infected unvaccinated vs vaccinated person (still 9% chance)
Assuming there are only 10 people in Singapore, all 10 vaccinated and all are free of virus initially. We let in 3 not vaccinated folks subsequently
If no one is infected, chance of fully vaccinated folks getting infected is 0%
If 1 of the not vaccinated is infected, chance of fully vaccinated folks getting infected is (1/13)*0.09 = 0.7%
If 2 of the not vaccinated are infected, chance of fully vaccinated folks getting infected is (2/13)*0.09 = 1.4%
What I am trying to say here is, we can push for even 100% vaccination, but as long as we allow not vaccinated folks to come in, the risk of vaccinated/not vaccinated folks will be there.. So why are the not vaccinated folks taking all the heat? Shouldn't our immigration policy follow the same direction from task force and only allow vaccinated folks to come in?
I know there will be people who say that it will affect Singapore's economy if we set such criteria.. But if these people can be so kind toward foreigners, shouldn't they be kind toward Singaporean who are not vaccinated?
But 1 reason why someone should take vaccine, it is not for some stupid reason that it can caused nation to be locked down, but rather to be accountable to your loved ones since they will be the ones who suffered if you are severely ill because of COVID, that's all.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/...risks.html
(08-08-2021, 01:40 PM)revealer Wrote: [ -> ]These people are anti-Vaxxes. They are trying to find excuse. Who said Covid vaccines are untested? What are those efficacy and safety trial test in 3 phases involving at leat 30,000 people means? Playing monopoly game? Simply guessing the outcome of the safety and efficacy?
The vaccine are admitted under emergency usage does not mean they are not safe for use. It is only true that their long term effect has not been determined through aging test. Todate, there are more than 4 billions doses administered.
Anyway, anti0-vaxxers will find all sort of reason to prove they are right until the day...and it will come sooner. It is stupid for anyone to remind them again and again only if they don't spread misinformation.
The next thing is to brand all those who are not vaccinated yet as anti0-vaxxers, well done.
If the govt is so sure that taking vaccines is the only way forward, then why don't they make it mandatory? It is precisely that they cannot predict what will happen, and they don't want to bear the consequences.
Hence now starting all these strong arm tactics to bully the unvaccinated, but yet they "don't want blood on their hands" should anything untoward happen to these bullied unvaccinated. Talk about moral cowardice
I know. We should round up all those not vaccinated and send all of them to ubin and ban them from coming to main island. This will be a logical move to restrict their movement as what tTS suggested.