This is a follow up to the WP MP He's debate with Koh Poh Koon on the matter. Minister Koh claimed we have the right values when it comes to caring for the elderly. This is not true and has to be debunked. Its all PAP propaganda. The PAP claims they help but that is only after you have drained all your own resources. We should have a proper system in place not this type of policies.
I will cover how HK cares for its elderly then Japan, then Taiwan which does an even better job.
Because of the HK govt comprehensive health care system.
An elderly going into hospital pays HK$100 (S$18) per day including all treatment and surgery
In Singapore they squeeze you to save into Medisave if not enough medisield life. Even then there are so many gaps people have to fork out more in private healthcare plans for enhance and integrated plans. Why? Because we lack a comprehensive system that takes care of everyone without draining them.
Based on report below, it is not recommended for Hong Kongers to buy health insurance for public hospital treatment because there is no need
![[Image: WYGMj3g.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/WYGMj3g.jpg)
Below is a summary of costs of HK hospitalisation. The full detail is spelt out for you to see
https://alea.care/resources/hong-kong-pu...eally-cost
The PAP always claim it is good and don't need to improve but when we look at the healthcare system in place elsewhere they take care of everyone including poor and elderly without they heavy burden of high costs and gaps.
This one I agree. The private specialist and even public hospital when knowing you have private health insurance, they will recommend all sort of treatments to squeeze u and the insurers dry. The private specialist are the worst offender.
PAP healthcare is also another scam that fleece citizens $$$. Poor must pay....but do MIW pay?
yes the gov is making all doc very rich
obscene...
needs to twitch all ...
(06-07-2022, 06:44 PM)Niubee Wrote: [ -> ]This one I agree. The private specialist and even public hospital when knowing you have private health insurance, they will recommend all sort of treatments to squeeze u and the insurers dry. The private specialist are the worst offender.
The govt is letting the rich doctors benefit at our expense. Nobody in govt is interested in clamping down on doctors' bad practices. The governing elites and doctors are scratching each others' back.
Common understanding is that if you go for govt hospital Medishield Life (reasonable premiums) should cover and there is no need to buy further insurance ? ? ? ? Unless you mean all HKies go for public hospitals...........
Your article already says : Hong Kong private sector fees which are considered the second most expensive in the world after the USA.
Shitty medisave and medishield life. Keep paying n paying.
(06-07-2022, 07:04 PM)lylcnn Wrote: [ -> ]Common understanding is that if you go for govt hospital Medishield Life (reasonable premiums) should cover and there is no need to buy further insurance ? ? ? ? Unless you mean all HKies go for public hospitals...........
Your article already says : Hong Kong private sector fees which are considered the second most expensive in the world after the USA.
U must be under 30yo. Wait till u need to claim then say hor...
PAP scam is always u pay whole chicken....can claim a few feathers only.
(06-07-2022, 07:14 PM)RichDad Wrote: [ -> ]Shitty medisave and medishield life. Keep paying n paying.
The interest earned in your medisave account (full sum) is enough to pay for your medishield premium if not wrong.
(06-07-2022, 07:41 PM)winbig Wrote: [ -> ]The interest earned in your medisave account (full sum) is enough to pay for your medishield premium if not wrong.
provided it is a high 4 figure
It is just a matter of whether the free medical treatment in Hong Kong has been prepaid by the taxpayer. If it has been prepaid and the patient should not ask to pay for the service again. In UK, NZ and Australia, understand their personal income tax is very high. Their free medical services must have been prepaid by the taxpayer.
https://skyjuiceiswater.blogspot.com/202...d-for.html
(06-07-2022, 10:40 PM)revealer Wrote: [ -> ]It is just a matter of whether the free medical treatment in Hong Kong has been prepaid by the taxpayer. If it has been prepaid and the patient should not ask to pay for the service again. In UK, NZ and Australia, understand their personal income tax is very high. Their free medical services must have been prepaid by the taxpayer.
https://skyjuiceiswater.blogspot.com/202...d-for.html
That's interesting. I always assumed HK income taxes are lesser than SG but in reality significantly higher.
But you need to factor in 9% GST. So almost equivalent tax expenses at the end of the day.
(06-07-2022, 07:27 PM)Notdumb Wrote: [ -> ]U must be under 30yo. Wait till u need to claim then say hor...
PAP scam is always u pay whole chicken....can claim a few feathers only.
it's all black and white lah you think communist China ah pay 40% income tax or thereabouts
HK no need to pay for defence of course they can have it cheaper. Our defence budget is 16 billion. Imagine using that for medical care.
(06-07-2022, 11:59 PM)Blasterlord2 Wrote: [ -> ]HK no need to pay for defence of course they can have it cheaper. Our defence budget is 16 billion. Imagine using that for medical care.
Taiwan which has to spend in defense to deter the world's biggest army has an even better system than HK. I have not come to them yet
Using defense as a reason not to spend on a comprehsive medical care system is a weak one.
If anything we have to really scrutinise beacsue on the one hand we are squeezing citizens for out of pocket payments while buying expensive military hardware that expire unused in 15yrs. As citizens we have to decide.
(06-07-2022, 10:40 PM)revealer Wrote: [ -> ]It is just a matter of whether the free medical treatment in Hong Kong has been prepaid by the taxpayer. If it has been prepaid and the patient should not ask to pay for the service again. In UK, NZ and Australia, understand their personal income tax is very high. Their free medical services must have been prepaid by the taxpayer.
https://skyjuiceiswater.blogspot.com/202...d-for.html
This argument is incomplete.
First of all money has to come from somewhere and does not drop from sky.
If you factor in regressive taxes like GST on people in lower income bracket the in mpact of taxes is comparable or higher in Singapore. HK has no GST The reason the Sg govt goes for higher and higher GST is to keep income taxes and corporate taxes from rising. This helps the richer classes than the poor and middleclass that form the majority.
Compulsory contributions to CPF also replace the what taxes does in other countries. If govt tax you and provide a national pension vs force you to save so you have own money to retire.....is this same or different? The impact is the same from a cashflow point of view. So in effect Singaporeans are most heavily taxed because govt forced savings in CPF means lower disposable income especially for thise with lower income..
(07-07-2022, 03:21 AM)sgbuffett Wrote: [ -> ]This argument is incomplete.
First of all money has to come from somewhere and does not drop from sky.
If you factor in regressive taxes like GST on people in lower income bracket the in mpact of taxes is comparable or higher in Singapore. HK has no GST The reason the Sg govt goes for higher and higher GST is to keep income taxes and corporate taxes from rising. This helps the richer classes than the poor and middleclass that form the majority.
Compulsory contributions to CPF also replace the what taxes does in other countries. If govt tax you and provide a national pension vs force you to save so you have own money to retire.....is this same or different? The impact is the same from a cashflow point of view. So in effect Singaporeans are most heavily taxed because govt forced savings in CPF means lower disposable income especially for thise with lower income..
Bo pian, must help rich to at least stay rich, if they dies, many will loss their job, that will be worse than having to pay high for everything,,
It is the rich that run factory and build businesses, and produce jobs for the poor..
That is why FED help the bank and rich coy to stable viable, otheriwse many losses their job..
Dont complain, you voted for it.
Song Boh! Squeeze you dry dry…
They have mismanaged the economy so badly but no one needs to take responsibility.
They still can TCSS some more.
(07-07-2022, 03:21 AM)sgbuffett Wrote: [ -> ]This argument is incomplete.
First of all money has to come from somewhere and does not drop from sky.
If you factor in regressive taxes like GST on people in lower income bracket the in mpact of taxes is comparable or higher in Singapore. HK has no GST The reason the Sg govt goes for higher and higher GST is to keep income taxes and corporate taxes from rising. This helps the richer classes than the poor and middleclass that form the majority.
Compulsory contributions to CPF also replace the what taxes does in other countries. If govt tax you and provide a national pension vs force you to save so you have own money to retire.....is this same or different? The impact is the same from a cashflow point of view. So in effect Singaporeans are most heavily taxed because govt forced savings in CPF means lower disposable income especially for thise with lower income..
GST is for different purposes altogether; for this reason, the Singapore Government has always been absorbing the GST for subsidised patients
https://taxsg.com/2015/06/04/iras-clarif...cal-bills/
(07-07-2022, 07:26 AM)sgbuffett Wrote: [ -> ]You misunderstand. I am saying Singaporeans pay GST + income tax and HKers only pay income tax. The total has to be counted for comparison
I am not talking about GST for medical.
The argument here is why HKers do not have to pay for insurance? The answer is the insurance might have been paid for in the income taxes. Don't quite understand why GST came into the discussion.
(07-07-2022, 07:48 AM)revealer Wrote: [ -> ]The argument here is why HKers do not have to pay for insurance? The answer is the insurance might have been paid for in the income taxes.
The counter argumnet us Singaporeans pay income tax +GST ...medical should be prepaid.
(07-07-2022, 07:51 AM)sgbuffett Wrote: [ -> ]The counter argumnet us Singaporeans pay income tax +GST ...medical should be prepaid.
The answer is simple: the medical bills are never the same for everyone and as medical advances, more complex illnesses can be treated and therefore, need more medical expense. The fairer system is to pay as you are treated rather than prepaying a universal fee assuming all illnesses are the same.
If you are in Britain, NZ and Australia where there is also free medical treatment like HK, try to book an appointment for a simple surgery, you will find it easier and quicker to do so in Singapore. In Britain etc, that simple surgery could take 6 or more months to book.
(07-07-2022, 08:00 AM)revealer Wrote: [ -> ]The answer is simple: the medical bills are never the same for everyone and as medical advances, more complex illnesses can be treated and therefore, need more medical expense. The fairer system is to pay as you are treated rather than prepaying a universal fee assuming all illnesses are the same.
If you are in Britain, NZ and Australia where there is also free medical treatment like HK, try to book an appointment for a simple surgery, you will find it easier and quicker to do so in Singapore. In Britain etc, that simple surgery could take 6 or more months to book.
Do you have proof the waiting time in HK is much longer? How much longer? HK govt has 40+ hospitals.
(07-07-2022, 08:00 AM)revealer Wrote: [ -> ]The answer is simple: the medical bills are never the same for everyone and as medical advances, more complex illnesses can be treated and therefore, need more medical expense. The fairer system is to pay as you are treated rather than prepaying a universal fee assuming all illnesses are the same.
If you are in Britain, NZ and Australia where there is also free medical treatment like HK, try to book an appointment for a simple surgery, you will find it easier and quicker to do so in Singapore. In Britain etc, that simple surgery could take 6 or more months to book.
The idea of taking care of everyone is to ensure nobody is overburdened by serious illness. If you make people pay more
depending on severity of illness..it does not achieve that.
Now you change course to talk about waiting time.
Do you have proof the waiting time in HK is much longer? How much longer? HK govt has 40+ hospitals.
(07-07-2022, 07:51 AM)sgbuffett Wrote: [ -> ]The counter argumnet us Singaporeans pay income tax +GST ...medical should be prepaid.
Do u want to pay higher income tax to subsidize medical care for those not working like yourself?
I was reading and saw this on the first page of the article posted by TS then I stopped reading......
Quote:The issue with the public system is that it runs on a first-come, first-served basis, and due to the lack of medical staff, regardless of what service you are in need of, there will likely be a long waiting time. Depending on the demand some common surgical procedures can take from 8 up to 30 months to operate.
(07-07-2022, 03:11 AM)sgbuffett Wrote: [ -> ]Taiwan which has to spend in defense to deter the world's biggest army has an even better system than HK. I have not come to them yet
Using defense as a reason not to spend on a comprehsive medical care system is a weak one.
If anything we have to really scrutinise beacsue on the one hand we are squeezing citizens for out of pocket payments while buying expensive military hardware that expire unused in 15yrs. As citizens we have to decide.
Please note TW spends less than half of SG in defense as percentage of GDP.
They rely heavily on US as fallback defence.
(07-07-2022, 08:18 AM)winbig Wrote: [ -> ]Do u want to pay higher income tax to subsidize medical care for those not working like yourself?
We are already paying more and more as GST is raise through the years.
A medical system should take care of EVERYONE to a level we all do not worry about affordability and have to buy patches for govt system, worry about falling through the cracks and ever rising costs.
We need a system that is more committed to caring for our elderly.
Somehow we always find ways NOT to start improving.
(07-07-2022, 08:23 AM)lylcnn Wrote: [ -> ]Please note TW spends less than half of SG in defense as percentage of GDP.
They rely heavily on US as fallback defence.
You mean Sungapore is under more threat and have to spend more than Taiwan. REALLY?
We need to re-think our priorities. Someone objective should look at this.