SG Talk

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/la...ive-powers

Quote:When posing supplementary questions, Mr Leong said that Mr Shanmugam has not explained the reasons for rushing to pass the law. He also questioned the effectiveness of the legislation in countering foreign interference and asked why a judicial review is not part of the process, unlike other countries. 

Mr Shanmugam again berated Mr Leong for his comments that people can be detained without trial and said that his “blood pressure went up” while listening to the NCMP. 

He also chastised Mr Leong for dismissing examples of influence operations in Australia and Taiwan as “jokes”. 

The PSP member had asked Mr Shanmugam to give examples of foreign agents influencing the politics of other Asian countries in a substantial manner and said that earlier examples given seemed to be like “jokes” since the foreign influence was discovered before any permanent damage was done. 

And as for why a judicial review is not conducted here while other countries do so, Mr Shanmugam said that there are trade-offs with each legislation. 

He raised the example of how New Zealand does not have an Internal Security Act. Thus, it was not able to act before a supporter of terrorist group Islamic State attacked members of the public at a supermarket, even though the authorities had information about him being a potential danger for years. 

What LMW said is true and correct.
1. If foreign intervention poses a real risk, as in terrorist example cited by Shanmugan the person can be detained without trial under ISA..

2. If it is not a significant risk snd there isn't sufficient proof, then there is no justification for govt to act..

3. It is possible to use this law to falsely accuse someone and act against him.

4. This law is not good. WP and PSP  does not support a bad law. PAP supports the law.

Many people do not understand what is FICA and why we need such drastic law. If MPs do not understand even after Ah Shame had explained hurriedly, what more to the ordinary sinkees.

There are just too many problems and flaws with this law...and it is rushed through without consulting Singaporeans for feedback.

(06-10-2021, 05:20 AM)sgbuffett Wrote: [ -> ]What LMW said is true and correct.
1. If foreign intervention poses a real risk, as in terrorist example cited by Shanmugan the person can be detained without trial under ISA..

2. If it is not a significant risk snd there isn't sufficient proof, then there is no justification for govt to act..

3. It is possible to use this law to falsely accuse someone and act against him.

4. This law is not good. WP and PSP  does not support a bad law. PAP supports the law.

Nobody will support a law to catch a person first without evident that he has committed a crime. We are not living in the ancient time when info is limited. 
Catch the person first, without any evident or proof onhand that he has committed a crime. (Only suspecting).
Then, take their own sweet time to find evident. 
What if they have suspected the wrong person?
What will be the CA?
Do you think this is a good way?

Despite how he was misreported in the state controlled media to make him out to be a clown.

This is what LMW actually said in Parliament and all his concerns...every single one is relevant to us.

(06-10-2021, 06:07 AM)sgbuffett Wrote: [ -> ]Despite how he was misreported in the state controlled media to make him out to be a clown.

This is what LMW actually said in Parliament and all his concerns...every single one is relevant to us.

I am not a biased person. I will listen to both sides.
And do my own judgement.
I dont trust Human law actually.
It is biased in nature.
We need to follow Law of Nature.
This is the best way.

lee sian long should be arrested under FICA for importing too many foreigners which interfere in our culture
these ft dont want to integrate

I spend time watching the debate I was trying hard to understand the S'pore examples given by Shanmugan:

1. Terrex  incident  - many pro China views
2. Malaysian dispute...pro Malaysia views spread.

I cant understand what the law has to do with the above. If we have have dispute with China or Malaysia ...they have bigger population and their Netizens will express views that tend to favor them on Internet.

Some Singaporeans  put those views on local sites simply because they have pro China views and voluntarily do so.... and others will just copy views from Malaysia site and post them for discussion usually get hammered down by Singaporeans.

Shanmugan says the law is not against Singaporeans expressing their view or censorship. Its to go after foreign interference 

However he can't come up with very clear examples on how the law is used.

What is this law suppose to do in the above examples?

His blood pressure is going up because no reasonable objective person can see justification for the laws he introduced.......

If there is anyone here ....plse explain.

This law the powers to impose is solely in the hands of the Home Minister who unfortunately is also Ah Sham. All the powers is granted to him. Think it has gone to his head. That's why his blood pressure has gone up.

White country selling thieves have some fetish on acronyms ending with CA

CECA and now FICA

(06-10-2021, 10:46 AM)Tangsen Wrote: [ -> ]White country selling thieves have some fetish on acronyms ending with CA

CECA and now FICA

CECA and FICA are laws/agreements detrimental to our citizens.  The MIW should not introduce so many laws to make citizens here be domicile...

(06-10-2021, 10:57 AM)debono Wrote: [ -> ]CECA and FICA are laws/agreements detrimental to our citizens.  The MIW should not introduce so many laws to make citizens here be domicile...

i concur with you view.....

Ah Shan is very ungentlemanly, always uses such language to make it look like it's other people's fault.

Want to debate, just go right to the issues, don't use any other condescending words. It reflects very badly on his character.

What PSP said is very true. Why need to rush? 
Why need to introduce the bill at all?

Why?

Why?

Why?

with 70% electoral backing, Ah Sham doesn't have to explain lah. LMW is just 烦死人!

Sham must remember it is the people who voted the opposition into Parliament to ask ugly questions that hit the core of our society. He is indirectly f! us! All other ministers are guilty too.

If they didn’t do anything wrong why must change to FICA just to make us forget about it?

(06-10-2021, 01:11 PM)toothpick Wrote: [ -> ]with 70% electoral backing, Ah Sham doesn't have to explain lah. LMW is just 烦死人!

 Yes we need this kind of persistence pressure on them else money so easy to earn meh.

Ah Shan is helping PSP to score points in the next election, be it this saga or the RI is lousy school saga..

S Iswaran must be sweating now, because last election PSP did well there, 5 years down the road, there is an actual risk that S Iswaran will lose in the next election..

(06-10-2021, 09:51 AM)sgbuffett Wrote: [ -> ]I spend time watching the debate I was trying hard to understand the S'pore examples given by Shanmugan:

1. Terrex  incident  - many pro China views
2. Malaysian dispute...pro Malaysia views spread.

I cant understand what the law has to do with the above. If we have have dispute with China or Malaysia ...they have bigger population and their Netizens will express views that tend to favor them on Internet.

Some Singaporeans  put those views on local sites simply because they have pro China views and voluntarily do so.... and others will just copy views from Malaysia site and post them for discussion usually get hammered down by Singaporeans.

Shanmugan says the law is not against Singaporeans expressing their view or censorship. Its to go after foreign interference 

However he can't come up with very clear examples on how the law is used.

What is this law suppose to do in the above examples?

His blood pressure is going up because no reasonable objective person can see justification for the laws he introduced.......

If there is anyone here ....plse explain.

If we believe any words from Ah Shan, then we have ourselves to blame..

I will always remember LSH kena sued for forwarding a FB post..

If forwarding can be sued (and only LSH is sued when hundreds would have forwarded the same post), then how can we trust that any new law will not work against us.. At the end of the day, it is only how powerful your lawyer, how much resources you have, to win a lawsuit here..

Ah Shame expects all to understand what the bill is and what he is talking about. But you must understand, not all of us come from good schools, many come from lousy schools, like RI. Therefore we are actually illiterates.

So Ah Shame should explain more, including forming a task force to explain in simple Singlish to all of us, including RI alumni.

(06-10-2021, 10:57 AM)debono Wrote: [ -> ]CECA and FICA are laws/agreements detrimental to our citizens.  The MIW should not introduce so many laws to make citizens here be domicile...

So CA … means Citizen's Ass? 
Clobber Everyday Citizen's Ass
Fugg Inside Citizen's Ass

(06-10-2021, 01:48 PM)klat Wrote: [ -> ]Ah Shame expects all to understand what the bill is and what he is talking about. But you must understand, not all of us come from good schools, many come from lousy schools, like RI. Therefore we are actually illiterates.

So Ah Shame should explain more, including forming a task force to explain in simple Singlish to all of us, including RI alumni.

So the MIW belittle LMW, by saying RI is not a good school, and that they are illiterates.......The RI alumni is going to counter Ah Shame on his comments....

(06-10-2021, 10:16 PM)debono Wrote: [ -> ]So the MIW belittle LMW, by saying RI is not a good school, and that they are illiterates.......The RI alumni is going to counter Ah Shame on his comments....

So long already also no counter means it's not going to happen 

We have the votes but are being diluted by the day in many many schemes.
Relax they are trying hard to sound right keeping the butter on their bread.

(06-10-2021, 10:16 PM)debono Wrote: [ -> ]So the MIW belittle LMW, by saying RI is not a good school, and that they are illiterates.......The RI alumni is going to counter Ah Shame on his comments....

Actually many people are intelligent in their thinking but not good at debating or speaking Impromptu...or taking rapid fire questions.

For this reason many are bullied and work, lose out to smooth talkers and people who talk well and do nothing.

I think many see the pap gang up on LMW ...will bring bad their own  bad memories of dealing with smooth talkers and people who play with words well.....it will just make people hate them more....

(08-10-2021, 04:07 PM)sgbuffett Wrote: [ -> ]Actually many people are intelligent in their thinking but not good at debating or speaking Impromptu...or taking rapid fire questions.

For this reason many are bullied and work, lose out to smooth talkers and people who talk well and do nothing.

I think many see the pap gang up on LMW ...will bring bad their bad memories of dealing with smooth talkers and people who play with words well.....it will just make people hate them more.

It shd be LMW boiled-up and pressure shot upwards talking to such nonsensical people who hv no logical reasonings. But stil, LMW keeps his cool and that is really amazing. LMW does deserves praise.

People like me . . .have not heard of FICA being used and what it is.

PSP Leong also must ask so that EVERYBODY is on the same platform, mah.

Like that already blood pressure went up? When the 5 PAP defended CECA, I exploded up the roof, lor.

Can PAP Ministers stop being so arrogant? How can they expect us to know when they never share?