(24-06-2025, 07:59 AM)Ali Imran Wrote:  Bad dreams, or nightmares, are different. Also good dreams.

But we are talking about theology here. Dreams of Jesus are theologically based and we are already in agreement that the devil can impersonate Jesus and appear in a vision. You said it was the devil who impersonated Jesus and appeared before Joseph Smith. That has nothing to do with good or bad dreams. We also have Paul of Tarsus, who claimed to have a vision of Jesus appearing before him. Was that the devil or Jesus? You have no way to tell.

(24-06-2025, 08:24 AM)pinkpanther Wrote:  Where in the Hadith mention that Muhammad is sick..He was under a spell..Jesus was tempted by the devil for 40 days but he refused to give in

(24-06-2025, 08:31 AM)Ali Imran Wrote:  Are you saying Muhammad صلي الله عليه وسلم cannot get sick?

(24-06-2025, 08:30 AM)pinkpanther Wrote:  Can you tell if Muhammad actually went to the 7 heaven to meet Allah? Was it an illusion set up by the devil to trick him into believing so?

Without visions of the devil, Paul continues to persecute Christians...with the devil appearing in his vision.. Paul stopped persecution and believe in Jesus....now does that make sense to you

If you are the devil, you will want to see Paul persecute more Christians rather than increasing the numbers of believers

(24-06-2025, 08:35 AM)pinkpanther Wrote:  He can get sick...but in this sahih Hadith, he was under a spell..Aisha said so, they even identify the person, the comb and hair ..

(24-06-2025, 08:37 AM)Ali Imran Wrote:  Did you remember your earlier criteria to determine if it was the devil or divine? You said it must be in line with the scriptures. Did the meeting between Muhammad صلي الله عليه وسلم and Allah bring about something that went against the previous scriptures? The answer is no.

As for Paul, his meeting with the entity he claimed was Jesus brought about a total change to the previous teachings of the prophets including Jesus. Now, if we go by your  own criteria, Paul didn't meet with Jesus but the devil. Remember, I'm using your own criteria.

(24-06-2025, 08:40 AM)Ali Imran Wrote:  We are using english words which tend to give us a different connotation of what actually happened. 

I reject that word "spell".

(24-06-2025, 06:06 AM)Ali Imran Wrote:  OK cool.

So we know that the devil can appear as Jesus to some people.

How do we know the one who visited LKSM isn't the devil impersonating Jesus?

(24-06-2025, 08:30 AM)pinkpanther Wrote:  Can you tell if Muhammad actually went to the 7 heaven to meet Allah? Was it an illusion set up by the devil to trick him into believing so?

Without visions of the devil, Paul continues to persecute Christians...with the devil appearing in his vision.. Paul stopped persecution and believe in Jesus....now does that make sense to you

If you are the devil, you will want to see Paul persecute more Christians rather than increasing the numbers of believers

(24-06-2025, 10:33 AM)Lukongsimi Wrote:  Don’t forget your prophet said in order to go to paradise u have to guard the lapcheong   between your legs n the tongue between your jaws
U speak blasphemy 
Jesus is not the devil He is God 
He has the most merciful face with loving eyes 
The devil face is different his eyes are very demonic n full of hatred !
Wonder you the same?

(24-06-2025, 11:03 AM)pinkpanther Wrote:   if Allah appear in his vision...he will ask Allah to show him the ID..

(24-06-2025, 08:52 AM)pinkpanther Wrote:  Who says the meeting between Muhammad and Allah did not contradict the scriptures...in fact it makes Allah look weak..Allah submitted to the request of his own creation .. instead of the intended 50 prayers, Muhammad accepted Allah's request of 5 daily prayers .I never know that you can negotiate with god

Again Paul did not contradict the scriptures. He acknowledged and built upon the teachings of Jesus in his writings. He often echoed Jesus's emphasis on love, humility, and the importance of faith, while also highlighting the significance of the resurrection...

(24-06-2025, 01:09 PM)Ali Imran Wrote:  Allah is most gracious, most merciful, most generous. The request of His beloved servant is fulfilled. It does not make Allah weak. Compare that to what you believe, Jesus pleading with God the whole night through and you believe God just ignored his prayer.

About Paul. How can you say Paul's teachings are built upon Jesus's teachings? It goes against what Jesus taught. Jesus said the Law must remain but Paul said otherwise, to discard it. There is almost nothing Paul taught that mirrors Jesus's teachings. On top of that, Paul even contradicts the words of the Father when he said the Law is a curse. 

So, going by your own criteria, Paul didn't meet with Jesus but an entity that is the opposite of Jesus.

(24-06-2025, 01:09 PM)Ali Imran Wrote:  Allah is most gracious, most merciful, most generous. The request of His beloved servant is fulfilled. It does not make Allah weak. Compare that to what you believe, Jesus pleading with God the whole night through and you believe God just ignored his prayer.

About Paul. How can you say Paul's teachings are built upon Jesus's teachings? It goes against what Jesus taught. Jesus said the Law must remain but Paul said otherwise, to discard it. There is almost nothing Paul taught that mirrors Jesus's teachings. On top of that, Paul even contradicts the words of the Father when he said the Law is a curse. 

So, going by your own criteria, Paul didn't meet with Jesus but an entity that is the opposite of Jesus.

(24-06-2025, 02:17 PM)Lukongsimi Wrote:  Walk while you in the light
As darkness cannot overcome the light
So that you can become the children of the light.
Whoever walks in the darkness doesn’t know where they are going.

(24-06-2025, 02:31 PM)pinkpanther Wrote:  Christians do not criticise the OT or the Quran..we walk in the light....but the moslems will go around saying all the other books were corrupted...
Ask them where is the corruption...they don know where..

(24-06-2025, 02:20 PM)Lukongsimi Wrote:  So your god is not the same as the Christian ‘s God?
N you claim you are worshipping the same God.

(24-06-2025, 02:31 PM)pinkpanther Wrote:  Christians do not criticise the OT or the Quran..we walk in the light....but the moslems will go around saying all the other books were corrupted...
Ask them where is the corruption...they don know where..

(24-06-2025, 02:12 PM)pinkpanther Wrote:   Allah is not only weak but fickle minded as He couldn't make up his mind on how many prayers to give and Muhammad kept running up and down the levels of heaven to negotiate for a better deal...I know Muhammad was a trader and a merchant but heaven is no market place...you do not negotiate with God.....Muhammad manipulated Allah...Allah got pawned by his own creation..  

Jesus was scared to die even though he pleaded with Father for help...He knew how it will end but he will never ask the Father to find an innocent substitute for him...that would attribute sins to him and his father.

In essence, both Jesus and Paul affirm the enduring importance of God's Law, but they differ in their emphasis..... Jesus focuses on the Law's enduring moral and ethical requirements, while Paul emphasizes that believers are freed from the Law's condemnation through faith in Christ and empowered by the Holy Spirit to live according to God's will.
 
Paul was a scholar OK and he underwent a dramatic transformation when he became a follower of Jesus, which led him to become a missionary and apostle to the Gentiles.....you cannot put him and Muhammad in the same category because Muhammad came to break Jesus's laws and his commands contradicts the Bible. ..that is why we deem him as a false prophet

(24-06-2025, 03:38 PM)Ali Imran Wrote:  The Christian scholars say the Bible is corrupted.

And the Jewish scholars, too. They also admit the Bible has errors.

https://www.haaretz.com/2012-07-18/ty-article/reconstructing-the-bible/0000017f-dec7-df9c-a17f-fedf69d90000

(24-06-2025, 03:40 PM)Ali Imran Wrote:  Whenever I ask Christians why they no longer keep the commandments, they will quote Paul everytime.

So, it was Paul who taught people to discard the Law. That is the opposite of Jesus's teachings. You cannot spin your way out of this.

(24-06-2025, 03:59 PM)pinkpanther Wrote:  Whenever I ask moslems why they said they respected Jesus but no longer keep the commandments, they will quote Muhammad everytime.

So, it was Muhammad who taught people to discard the Law. That is the opposite of Jesus's teachings. You cannot spin your way out of this.

(24-06-2025, 03:57 PM)pinkpanther Wrote:  Lksm even showed you yesterday that many moslem scholars found the Bible to be uncorrupted and reliable...

Textual variants in the bible are small errors...it doesnt mean the bible is corrupted

(24-06-2025, 04:18 PM)Ali Imran Wrote:  We have a new Law, known as the Shariah. So, you're wrong to say we are lawless like the Christians whom Jesus referred to as "lawless" in Matthew 7.

(24-06-2025, 04:19 PM)Ali Imran Wrote:  Have I shown you enough proofs from Bible scholars?

(24-06-2025, 05:16 PM)pinkpanther Wrote:  You see how Muhammad discarded Jesus's teachings and came up with his own even you admitted. Our laws are bound by the Bible uphold and judged by God not by man.

(24-06-2025, 05:19 PM)pinkpanther Wrote:  Where? Up to now, you've only presented perspectives from a biased scholar and articles that fail to provide concrete evidence that the Bible has been corrupted.

(24-06-2025, 05:24 PM)Ali Imran Wrote:  Why are they correcting the errors that are in the Bible?