(20-10-2023, 07:24 AM)winbig Wrote:  I thought there're bombs to take out air raid shelters?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunker_buster#:~:text=An%20example%20of%20a%20Russian,the%20high%20explosive%20penetrating%20warhead.

(20-10-2023, 07:19 AM)sgbuffett Wrote:  The Internet is filled with many good vs evil videos and various  narratives.

Even bombing of hospital that killed 500 fingers are pointed in both directions one side claims the other committed the atrocities.

Yesterday in one of their air raids a home was bombed and 10 people were killed including  7 children. Some people say that's collateral damage.

It is known that Hamas is largely located in underground tunnels below the surface.

https://mwi.westpoint.edu/underground-nightmare-hamas-tunnels-and-the-wicked-problem-facing-the-idf/

So the question is this ....how does bombing surface buildings and air raids take out Hamas?

Such air raids are likely to kill civilians rather than Hamas.

Because they declare their intentions is to go after Hamas does not absolve from using tactics that end up killing civilians.

The only way to go after Hamas and eliminate Hamas is to send troops into those tunnels. It is dangerous and casualties will ne high.

Other strategies end up killing civilians and leaving Hamas more or.less unharmed.

To date more civilians in Gaza have been killed by air raids than those who died during the 7 Oct Hamas attack.

How is this morally correct?

Even in war there are rules.

(20-10-2023, 10:06 AM)starbugs Wrote:  Not to defend Israel or Hamas, but the bombings would have targeted buildings with known entrances to the tunnels. Bomb one such building and when it collapses, you seal one exit. When the ground forces invade, the people hiding underground have fewer ways to escape.

(20-10-2023, 07:19 AM)sgbuffett Wrote:  The Internet is filled with many good vs evil videos and various  narratives.

Even bombing of hospital that killed 500 fingers are pointed in both directions one side claims the other committed the atrocities.

Yesterday in one of their air raids a home was bombed and 10 people were killed including  7 children. Some people say that's collateral damage.

It is known that Hamas is largely located in underground tunnels below the surface.

https://mwi.westpoint.edu/underground-nightmare-hamas-tunnels-and-the-wicked-problem-facing-the-idf/

So the question is this ....how does bombing surface buildings and air raids take out Hamas?

Such air raids are likely to kill civilians rather than Hamas.

Because they declare their intentions is to go after Hamas does not absolve from using tactics that end up killing civilians.

The only way to go after Hamas and eliminate Hamas is to send troops into those tunnels. It is dangerous and casualties will ne high.

Other strategies end up killing civilians and leaving Hamas more or.less unharmed.

To date more civilians in Gaza have been killed by air raids than those who died during the 7 Oct Hamas attack.

How is this morally correct?

Even in war there are rules.

(20-10-2023, 09:51 AM)Oyk Wrote:  Israel used GBU 72 bombs to destroy those tunnels...over a thousand of them.  This is the reason for the extensive bombing.  Once the tunnels are destroyed, and split WIDE OPEN, those cockroaches would have no hiding places, and then it's ground assault.

You think too lowly of the Israeli commanders as if they didn't know what they were doing, and were easting bombs destroying civilian buildings instead of army bases.

Your whining about civilians! civilian! civilian! shows how naïve you are. You are falling into HAMAS' game plan of using civilians as human shields.  I wonder if you had been exempted from doing NS because you have a medical condition which is why you are unable to find a woman to marry, and a job....and you seem to not know military strategies.  Or you could be a low-ranking LCP or CPL, so strategy is not your job, you are just some infantryman and CHARGE when ordered to. 

(20-10-2023, 10:39 AM)Gemstar Wrote:  Only ground assaults can eliminate these Hamas. But, it is going to be a tough tasks and Israelites army casualties can be disastrous. These terrorists already planned many years ago digging deep tunnels to escape from air raids.

(20-10-2023, 10:39 AM)Goldmine Wrote:  Yup! Seal all tunnel entrance/exit. Cement it.  No water, no food, no electricity, no aircon, no air how long can one survive.

(20-10-2023, 01:58 PM)sgh Wrote:  Back in WW2 when US marines were doing the Pacific Islands war to clear the Japanese from one island after another, Jap also dig a lot of tunnels. US do a lot of naval and aerial bombing but it seem to do little damage. The only way to clear is to send ground troops in. Due to heavy casualties in the end US marines do the easy find a cave hole opening just seal it up. This is cheaper in terms of saving lives.

Now is 2023 most likely bomb design have improved a lot to penetrate deep down into the ground. And if it fail simple you see an entrance or exit just seal it up with cement or rocks or whatever material. The tunnels most likely have many entrances/exit so just go and search for these and seal them up. Let the ppl inside tunnels die of thirst and hunger. Also save own soldier lives from going in to flush them out.

If Israel adopt this strategy will they be called wars of crime as they seal ppl up to die inside? I.e no fire exchange between two parties at all and you make the enemy die without you fire a single bullet?

(20-10-2023, 03:23 PM)Huliwang Wrote:  I believe the Jews have very detail map of the Hamas tunnel network, locations of a entrances and exits. Dun tell me Mossad dun have undercovers in the Hamas and other sources to get the tunnel details. So, if they really want to destroy the tunnels without doing much surface damage to buildings and lives, they could have done it easily like sealing all the entrances and exits, create a draft and inject gas or smoke into the tunnel, etc.  

(20-10-2023, 03:32 PM)sgh Wrote:  Actually seal off the entrance and exit is good enough. No need waste resources to pump gas or smoke in reason being inside they will soon die of thirst and hunger. And if too hungry cannibalize each other until no more flesh to eat the last person also die of hunger and thirst. A simple and effective strategy US marines use in the Pacific Islands. The con of such approach is are you sure you seal ALL the entrance and exit or not? Detailed map then come into the picture assume Mossad has it and it is the latest version.

(20-10-2023, 03:41 PM)Huliwang Wrote:  Whether seal or both seal and gas, must give at least three days notice to those hiding in the tunnel to leave on humanitarian ground.    

(20-10-2023, 06:45 PM)Lukongsimi Wrote:  Need bombs that can pierce thru underground loh

(20-10-2023, 07:38 AM)K88 shu shu Wrote:  ask the Vietcon the same question how the US kill them.