OCBC customers scammed - who is responsible? Should they be compensated?

OCBC customers scammed - who is responsible? Should they be compensated? - Printable Version

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OCBC customers scammed - who is responsible? Should they be compensated? - pinkypanther - 15-01-2022

When 36-year-old homemaker, Denise (not her real name) and her husband realised that they may have been victims of a phishing scam, he immediately called the OCBC hotline to try to get the bank to stop the scammers in their tracks.

However, instead of getting a response, Denise’s husband was put on hold for over 20 minutes.

During which, he received more SMS notifications that his OneToken had been activated.

The OneToken is OCBC’s digital authentication tool for internet transactions.

He was also notified that his transaction limit was increased from S$5,000 to S$50,000.

Unable to get through, Denise’s husband carried on with his other tasks.

Two hours later, he received another SMS suddenly informing him that S$15,718 had been transferred out via PayNow.

Horrified, he called OCBC’s hotline again, but was put on hold. While waiting, he received an SMS that another S$2,400 had been transferred out.

==================================================================

..................Natalie (not her real name), 27, who works in the tech industry, said she was scammed of S$43,000 and another S$7,000 that was borrowed by the scammers using OCBC’s EasiCredit scheme.

When Natalie kept calling OCBC for updates, no one was able to give her any answers.

She said this was frustrating for her as her money had been transferred out via an overseas transfer, which would typically take a few days to reach the recipient.

“They couldn’t tell me whether the money was still with OCBC or not. I got different answers each time I asked,” said Natalie.

More at https://shrtco.de/jND6Yz (scroll down to read)

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - theold - 15-01-2022

A lot of people being called for questioning.

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - RiseofAsia - 15-01-2022

How come they are so unlucky? My case was OCBC personnel did call me my cancelled credit card got illegal transaction. At that time, I still pondering, cancelled card can still make transaction, is she a scammer? She also told me the bank will handle it. I still thought she was a scammer. I did an authentication with OCBC again after I have finished my call with her. Indeed, she was working in OCBC. I must give thumb up for OCBC for my case. Thumbs_up

During my conversion with her, I did ask her how come cancelled card can still make credit card transaction, I remembered she said still can.

Now, I understand how come I cannot access my OCBC app as well online OCBC website. They are trying to protect me from scammers. Rotfl

Thank you, OCBC!

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - sgbuffett - 15-01-2022

The scam on OCBC customers is well executed.
The scams invested a lot of effort including hijacking the official sms chain. Ability to move digital token to their own devices and delay sms notifications.

They seem to have access to OCBC customer data.
This is not a simple phishing scam where they steal your credit card details and use it at a merchant site that does not use OTP. Such illicit transactions can easily be reversed.

Here the scammers standby many untraceable foreign accounts to move the funds.

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - sgbuffett - 15-01-2022

This may become another Lehman minibonds incident where banks just blame the customers despite customers trusting sms that appear to come from the banks.

In Lehman minibond ..To get something back the MAS let the bank decide who they will compensate by deciding whether they were educated, etc.

Here they might decide compensation based on whether you are should have been able to figure out it was a scam or not by deciding based on IT knowledge. Just like minibonds some will not get because they will argue that victim should know better...just like in Lehman Minibonds.

The bank might not compensate anyone because doing so means they admit their system has flaws. Only MAS and legal action will compel them.

I see many parallels between Lehman minibonds and this:

1. People trust what bank say....Lehman minibond was sold by bank RM as safe products. They target people who kept fixed deposit at the bank.

2. In this scam people trust that bank is secure and sms from bank is trusted. Scammer target people who trust the bank.

3. Victims are those who normally don't take risks with big sums in savings and FD accounts.

4. Banks will blame customers for what happen by taking cover in legal clauses. For example banks are not liable if you give your security credentials to third party.

5. MAS sided with banks to blame customers despite products were sold by RM at the bank. MAS said victims should know the risk.

6. I don't see why they would take a different stance in the current case. They have room to blame customers for clicking link to fake site.

Lesson learnt from Lehman minibonds

1. Victims should start contacting each other and form a group.

2. Discuss what to do to get more favorable outcomes.

3. Share their experience.

When you keep quiet, things just get swept under carpet.

The losses in Lehman minibonds was even much larger but initial response of MAS was not to do anything to help victims.
That changed only when victims formed up to take action.

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - Sentinel - 15-01-2022

OCBC is the worst bank in Sinkiepoor

I banned them many years ago

Totally thuggish and insensitive

Behave like PAP

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - Sharexchange - 15-01-2022

Bank will take years to investigate. Because they will want to use time to get you forget the incident and feel less pain in lossing the money

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - sgbuffett - 15-01-2022

(15-01-2022, 07:28 AM)Sharexchange Wrote: Bank will take years to investigate. Because they will want to use time to get you forget the incident and feel less pain in lossing the money

There were 470 victims of this scam.... The flaws lies with the OCBC system which was exploited by scammers.

Yet the bank is pushing away responsibility. No where in its statement is there any mentioned safeguards are breached

[Image: jyQTbhw.jpg]

1. Shouldn't the bank secure its channel of communications to customers...is that not most important? If your SMS chained can be hijacked its like people can impersonate your bank staff and take depositors money.

2. OCBC brazen unapologetic statement to quickly blame customers made before it fully investigate its own system and processes shows how little regard for need to have tight iron-clad security.

4. MAS is really toothless to allow OCBC make such a statement that simply push responsibility to customers it will undermine confidence in Singapore as a financial center.

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - Niubee - 15-01-2022

My main is dbs. To even nominate a new payee is troublesome in dbs.

How so easy to add new payee in ocbc and transfer out?

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - FangFang - 15-01-2022

Wow,, dangerous if unsolve, wonder why OCBC never mentioned this news and TV informed scammer ads sometime..

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - webinarian - 15-01-2022

(15-01-2022, 06:33 AM)sgbuffett Wrote: This may become another Lehman minibonds incident where banks just blame the customers despite customers trusting sms that appear to come from the banks.

...

Lehman Bro minibonds has any similarity with OCBC scam case?

If you don't know, don't spread fake news and baseless allegation.

Minibond is an investment products created by Lehman Bro and sold all over the world. When Lehman Bro collapsed, investors' money gone ...

What has it to do with sms?

.

Forum: Scammed of $100,000, but fault is not mine alone - forum456 - 15-01-2022

https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/forum/forum-scammed-of-100000-but-fault-is-not-mine-alone

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - sgbuffett - 15-01-2022

(15-01-2022, 09:01 AM)webinarian Wrote: Lehman Bro minibonds has any similarity with OCBC scam case?

If you don't know, don't spread fake news and baseless allegation.

Minibond is an investment products created by Lehman Bro and sold all over the world. When Lehman Bro collapsed, investors' money gone ...

What has it to do with sms?

.

Similarity is the problem starts with people trusting something from the bank. For minibonds it was something sold by bank. For recent bank fraud the sms was sent in the ocbc sms chain so people trusted.

If banks don't sell mininonds ....there would be no problems.
If banks secure their sms ....there would be no problems.

Yet the banks blame customer....in Singapore, customers is always wrong?

RE: Forum: Scammed of $100,000, but fault is not mine alone - menghuii - 15-01-2022

wa, if this is true
scammer knows is biz sia
because he knows ocbc dont even hv people to handle such issues immediately
since everything is automated.
100k within minutes or seconds! wow!

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - sgbuffett - 15-01-2022

If someone impersonate bank staff and defraud at the bank who is responsible.

Similarly hackers impersonate the bank through sms ....it is the bank who design this communication method hence is responsible for the security.

Technically the money is stole FROM THE BANK not FROM THE CUSTOMER..by scammers exploiting weakness in its system. The customers have to be compensated.

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - webinarian - 15-01-2022

(15-01-2022, 09:28 AM)sgbuffett Wrote: Similarity is the problem starts with people trusting something from the bank. For minibonds it was something sold by bank. For recent bank fraud the sms was sent in the ocbc sms chain so people trusted.

If banks don't sell mininonds ....there would be no problems.
If banks secure their sms ....there would be no problems.

Yet the banks blame customer....in Singapore, customers is always wrong?

OCBC's SMS was to tell people not follow the scam SMS by thieves telling them to tap on the link to get into thief's fake OCBC website only.

It has no similarity to the minibond investment products by Lehman Bro.

.

RE: Forum: Scammed of $100,000, but fault is not mine alone - Stoki - 15-01-2022

PHP Code:
      In just a few minutes, almost $100,000 was gone.

We have since made a police report but we have been told that even though accounts are insured by up to $50,000, we are unlikely to have any of our funds returned to us as it was my mistake for clicking on the link.

How can the blame be pinned entirely on me when OCBC's scam prevention measures are poorly equipped to urgently deal with a case as it is happening? 

No wonder ocbc stock price is less than half of dbs and uob.

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - theold - 15-01-2022

We had given too much control to the banks. These scammers, I believe, know our phone system, the bank internet systems, our postal system and are very likely insiders. They are not those sophisticated ones.

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - Stoki - 15-01-2022

Ex IT employee of ocbc who know inside out of the ocbc security system??

RE: Forum: Scammed of $100,000, but fault is not mine alone - hansamu - 15-01-2022

Most banks and other companies are also similar now.

It's really challenging if you want to talk to a human being over the phone for clarifications and information.

Press here, press there and you get to nowhere.

Alternatively, the phone rings but nobody picks it up.
And the most common excuse seems to be " We are experiencing high volume of calls now, please call back later "

Digitalisation actually results in a regressive rather than a progressive world.

RE: Forum: Scammed of $100,000, but fault is not mine alone - sgbuffett - 15-01-2022

A lot of flaws in the system.
1. How come sms can be spoofed to come from bank.
2. How is it token can just be shifted to another device without further authentication.
3. Hopeless hotline.
4. Where is the fraud detection mechanism to delay transfer?

I also have an account with another bank that wanted me to switch to digital token.

My thinking was that now it depends on phone security if phone is hacked everything is on a single device . Did the bank think through all the security issues associated with digital tokens?

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - dynamite - 15-01-2022

For quite long already when you call a bank hotline they have many pattern to make you go round and round pressing this and that. If you are still not fainted, maybe finally you can talk to an operator.

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - dynamite - 15-01-2022

(15-01-2022, 09:36 AM)sgbuffett Wrote: If someone impersonate bank staff and defraud at the bank who is responsible.

Similarly hackers impersonate the bank through sms ....it is the bank who design this communication method hence is responsible for the security.

Technically the money is stole FROM THE BANK not FROM THE CUSTOMER..by scammers exploiting weakness in its system. The customers have to be compensated.

Where was the money transferred to? For kidnap case usually can track who receive the money.

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - p1acebo - 15-01-2022

sibei jialat Big Grin

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - Huliwang - 15-01-2022

(15-01-2022, 10:30 AM)dynamite Wrote: For quite long already when you call a bank hotline they have many pattern to make you go round and round pressing this and that. If you are still not fainted, maybe finally you can talk to an operator.

That is true and the problem is all banks are like that. So there is no way to find a bank with fast answering service. Same applies to all telcos.... Rolleyes

RE: Forum: Scammed of $100,000, but fault is not mine alone - RichDad - 15-01-2022

Bottom line is, avoid OCBC like Covid. So easy to get scammed. No need OTP also, suka suka increase transfer limit??

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - webinarian - 15-01-2022

(15-01-2022, 09:36 AM)sgbuffett Wrote: If someone impersonate bank staff and defraud at the bank who is responsible.

Similarly hackers impersonate the bank through sms ....it is the bank who design this communication method hence is responsible for the security.

Technically the money is stole FROM THE BANK not FROM THE CUSTOMER..by scammers exploiting weakness in its system. The customers have to be compensated.

1. If you go around impersonating DBS, is DBS responsible for your act?

2. If you impersonating DBS sending out msg to others, is the bank responsible your act?

3. The money stolen from DBS because you give your userID and password to thief through fake website by the thief, the bank DBS responsible?

.

RE: Forum: Scammed of $100,000, but fault is not mine alone - Talent - 15-01-2022

this is scary
how they do it
so simple

RE: Forum: Scammed of $100,000, but fault is not mine alone - theold - 15-01-2022

Some use this method.

Copy the bank or postal website.
Send you an SMS link to their fake website.
They access the real website.
You access the fake website.
Likely, when you key in, the data will be shown on a big screen at their side.
They just need to key in what you had keyed in.
From there, you lost control of your money.

Others have access to our telephone system.
Be careful of those websites with credit card details. Technical staff can have access to your email account with the service providers built within.

If there are more controls, it will be harder for the technical staff to solve your problems.

RE: More horror stories of OCBC customers losing their life savings through recent scams - sgbuffett - 15-01-2022

Singapore is a country where something goes wrong even before investigation responsibility is pushed...

1. Such a scam would not happen if physical tokens are used.

2. So when digital tokens are allowed, who made the assessment to allow. Whi ensuref the security? How come no one is responsible?

3. Regulators allow sms OTP and digital tokens did they audit the cyber vulnerability issues?

How come when something happens all the highly paid people who are supposed to ensure process security and protection of consumers are not responsible....and responsibility is pushed to the one who is not supposed to have expertise....

Is the housewife supposed to know they will launched such a scam...how can it be when the experts did not see it coming to prevent it!!

I have always said that it is a myth that Singapore is well governed. ..just look at the scandals on SGX.