[Lukongsimi]

What makes him a god after doing everything same as human?

Nothing is impossible with God

[pinkpanther]

Can you prove?

Pls pay attention in class next time.

If this weren’t shocking enough, Allah appeared as a beautiful beardless young man with short curly hair!

“I saw my Lord in the most beautiful form like a youth with abundant hair.” (al-Daraqutni, Kitab al-Ru’ya, 332-333; 356-357; similar reports from Umm al-Tufayl, Anas b. Malik, Mu’adh b. ‘Afra, Ibn ‘Umar, ‘A’isha, Ibn ‘Abbas; Reported by Tabarani; Ibn Abi ‘Asim; al-Bayhaqi; al-Suyuti; al-Haythami; Ibn ‘Adi, al-Baghdadi)

I saw my Lord in the form of a young man, beardless (amrad) with short curly hair (ja’d) and clothed in a red garment. (Narrated by Ahmad b. Hanbal in Tabarani; AUTHENTICATED BY AHMAD B. HANBAL in Creed 3 citing isnad, ‘Abd al-Samad b. Yahya in Tabaqat al-Hanabila, 1:218, al-Marrudhi (d. 888) in Tabaqat, 3:81, Ibn ‘Aqil in Makdisi, Ibn ‘Aqil, 130; Ibn ‘Adi al-Qattan, al-Kamil fi du’afa’ al-rijal, 3:49-50, al-Daraqutni, Kitab al-Ru’ya, 332-333, 356-357; al-Tabarani, al-Mu’jam al-Kabir, 25:143; SAHIH BY ABU L-HASAN B. BASHSHAR in Ibn Abi Ya’la, Tabaqat, 2:59; Abu Ya’la, al-Muta’mad, 85; ACCEPTED BY IBN TAYMIYYA in Bayan Tablis al-Jahmiyya, 7:192-19

[Hope]

This is the problem with the Muslims isn't it! Not one bothered to check and ask why Muhammad needs to be mentioned together with God?? 

They don have an answer for us

It is to make sure Muslim don’t make him a son of God or diety

He is the final prophet for humanity, people follow him as a role model,Quran urges believers to praise and salute him.
We believe Allah must have urged the followers of Moses ,Jesus and other messengers to praise and salute them in their scriptures too.
Muslim even today, praise and salute when the names of 25 prophets including Jesus are mentioned.


“Do not exaggerate about me as was exaggerated about ‘Isa(Jesus )ibn Maryam. Say: the slave of Allah and His Messenger.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6830.)”

[Lukongsimi]

If Islam is the truth the 2 oppositions will promote love instead of
Jealousy,hatred,bitterness,mocking,taunt non stop.j

[WhatDoYouThink!]

Another gigantic masterpieces from shangdi.

[WhatDoYouThink!]

I think they're not extinct but evolved into chickens

[Hope]

He could have just said that Jesus also ate food, slept and walked on two legs like us if he wanted to say that Jesus was just a man.

Instead he wrote a long list of things and inserted two vulgar things. His intention was to mock because we consider Jesus to be God.

It may be look like vulgar. Those are the facts what a human can do.

Please ponder .

[Hope]

Nothing is impossible with God

God could have done the same with Adam. Isn’t it?

[Hope]

If Islam is the truth the 2 oppositions will promote love instead of
Jealousy,hatred,bitterness,mocking,taunt non stop.j

God created humans with love ,Jealousy, hatred, bitterness, mockery and etc.
ONLY in heaven, people will have love and peace ONLY.

[Lukongsimi]

God could have done the same with Adam. Isn’t it?

Adam was made from dust to look after the garden 
That time there is no sin yet for the Saviour to come n rescue

[Hope]

Pls pay attention in class next time.

If this weren’t shocking enough, Allah appeared as a beautiful beardless young man with short curly hair!

“I saw my Lord in the most beautiful form like a youth with abundant hair.” (al-Daraqutni, Kitab al-Ru’ya, 332-333; 356-357; similar reports from Umm al-Tufayl, Anas b. Malik, Mu’adh b. ‘Afra, Ibn ‘Umar, ‘A’isha, Ibn ‘Abbas; Reported by Tabarani; Ibn Abi ‘Asim; al-Bayhaqi; al-Suyuti; al-Haythami; Ibn ‘Adi, al-Baghdadi)

I saw my Lord in the form of a young man, beardless (amrad) with short curly hair (ja’d) and clothed in a red garment. (Narrated by Ahmad b. Hanbal in Tabarani; AUTHENTICATED BY AHMAD B. HANBAL in Creed 3 citing isnad, ‘Abd al-Samad b. Yahya in Tabaqat al-Hanabila, 1:218, al-Marrudhi (d. 888) in Tabaqat, 3:81, Ibn ‘Aqil in Makdisi, Ibn ‘Aqil, 130; Ibn ‘Adi al-Qattan, al-Kamil fi du’afa’ al-rijal, 3:49-50, al-Daraqutni, Kitab al-Ru’ya, 332-333, 356-357; al-Tabarani, al-Mu’jam al-Kabir, 25:143; SAHIH BY ABU L-HASAN B. BASHSHAR in Ibn Abi Ya’la, Tabaqat, 2:59; Abu Ya’la, al-Muta’mad, 85; ACCEPTED BY IBN TAYMIYYA in Bayan Tablis al-Jahmiyya, 7:192-19

I need time to check about these Hadith.

[Lukongsimi]

God created humans with love ,Jealousy, hatred, bitterness, mockery and etc.
ONLY in heaven, people will have love and peace.

If u don’t repent n have love n peace how to enter heaven ?
Everyday mock God,angels n his people?

[pinkpanther]

I need time to check about these Hadith.

I have shown you...

[Hope]

You are right

I don't respect Jesus. I worship Him.

There are people who worship Mary as well.

[Oyk]

There are people who worship Mary as well.

There are peepur who worship Mary, Sidd, Muhammad, Jigong, Mao Tse Tung.

If you ask me, my answer is going to rub peepur the wrong way because I will tell them not to do that, and only worship God.

The polytheist will say, sure, only worship god and he has a few favourite gods that he had been worshipping.

The atheist will shut you up and say there's no god.

The Buddhist will say that everybody can become a god and he only worships Buddha. He will say he's showing respect nia but I am not convinced.

The monotheist may say he worships only one god and he's Satan.

For me, my God is Jesus.

[WhatDoYouThink!]

Those religions not based on creation stories are smarter, because they dun hv to give stewpig answers about dinosaurs and mosquitos. All agree

[Oyk]

It may be look like vulgar. Those are the facts what a human can do.

Please ponder .

If I ask you whether Muhammad was a man, would you write exactly the same things?

If so, please prove it to me and I will forward your post to Ayatollah.

[Oyk]

There are peepur who worship Mary, Sidd, Muhammad, Jigong, Mao Tse Tung.

I don't know why, but whenever Mao is mentioned, his devotee will appear. 

[Ali Imran]

You once remarked that Muslims and Christians are as different as chalk and cheese and, I might add, bred-in-the-bone Muslims and Bible- believing Christians are irreconcilably opposed. The debaters wrangling here are very different from the general run of believers in that they're very much given to having a go at other's religious beliefs while defending their own beliefs. Moderates don't have the kind of fierce arguments that we're having.

You may have become mellower and more tolerant of criticism as you get on in years, but you're still very much a radical. Your preaching of dangerous heresies - that are irreconcilable with the Church's doctrine of salvation among other core beliefs - is still continuing unabated. Your dogged determination to outlast and wear your nemeses out in arguments is likely the reason Christians debaters in other forums disengaged from discourse with you one by one, leaving you - the last man - standing. My brothers-in-Christ here are on the edge of shaking the dust from their feet. I can understand their frustration of having to endure your unrelenting mocking and taunting, twisting and turning.

Personally, I think all the argy-bargy has been a mixed blessing - a curse and a blessing. The curse part needs no further elaboration. The redeeming feature: We've gone through a steep learning curve. Christians are to be ready to articulate and defend the foundational truth of their faith. It isn't enough for us to be willing to fight; we also need to be equipped to fight. The Bible exhorts Christians to have answers for people with questions (1 Peter 3:15) and God desires all people "to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim 2:4). That means we need to be armed not only with the truth of God's Word, but also to be equipped with sound logical arguments and easy-to-understand illustrations that Oyk has ably demonstrated.

My brethren spent precious time gleaning the files for info and data from various sources. My knowledge of your faith was shaky, but I'm too lazy to search the Web for info. Thanks to the material they posted, I was spoon-fed and became a bit more knowledgeable. With your decades of active participation in theological debates, you sure know all the "chinks" in the Bible, and are always at the ready to "expose" them. Admittedly, we do sometimes get a kick out of showing the falsity of some of your beliefs.

Somehow I feel that the knowledge we've gained in the course of our squabbles has deepen our understanding of our own faith and yours. Of course I know our views cut no ice with you since your mind is closed. But our primary focus is to spread the message of God's love and forgiveness and to win someone to faith in Christ. Some of our arguments may serve as a springboard for this purpose. We're also vaguely aware of a spiritual warfare going on alongside our verbal firefights. The most effective resource is God's Word, which is "sharper than two-edged sword" and has the capability of piercing Satan's fog of deception that muddles the thinking of non-Christians (Heb 4:12)

Now back to you. As to your question in your last paragraph, it's easy to just say "my way or the highway." I'll politely say that I have judged your viewpoint to be wrong but have chosen to respect your right to be wrong. Your doctrine and mine are at variance, and we're split as a result of doctrinal differences. So let's not talk about doctrines but something else, shall we?

Just like you, the Christians have declined to discuss any topic further but not for the reason you said. I remind you that you're the one who wanted us to revisit the Sola Fide topic and when you realized there is no way out and you conceded my position by citing MLK, you want the subject dropped. Based on that recent discourse, the reason I get the point wasn't my dogged determination to outlast you because it only took 2 or 3 posts to show you to look where you weren't looking. You have two opposing doctrines, gleaned from the New Testament. One from James and the other from Paul. Most Christians didn't know this and when I show it to them, I put them in a conundrum. The discussion will end.

After one or two topics like that, you will be wiser. You will refrain from going into any more discussion with me.

For two friends here, they decided they wanted to turn the table. They go after my religion, my prophet, and myself. But I can answer every question they may bring up with civility. I explain their misunderstandings. I destroy their arguments. Then they will start insulting my prophet and that is where I will make my exit.

[Hope]

Story of Adam and Eve as per Quran-Part one

[Oyk]

For two friends here, they decided they wanted to turn the table. They go after my religion, my prophet, and myself. But I can answer every question they may bring up with civility. I explain their misunderstandings. I destroy their arguments. Then they will start insulting my prophet and that is where I will make my exit.

You want us to become Muslims. Let me give you the benefit of the doubt that you mean well because you don't want us to be burned in hell forever.

How to become a Muslim? Very simpurr. Say the Shahada. 

You also told us not to believe blindly but to seek knowledge 

When I read the Shahada, there are two persons mentioned: Allah and Muhammad.

Won't it be reasonable for us to seek knowledge about Allah and Muhammad first before reciting the Shahada?

Then, I got very troubled when I read what's written in the Hadiths about Muhammad. When we ask questions, you will say we insult your prophet. If we don't ask, we have doubts and reciting the Shahada is hollow. It won't come from the heart. We would become at best fake Muslims. 

I would really like to have an intellectual discourse on the Hadiths with you. Are you willing to help me along?

[Hope]

Story of Adam and Eve Part two

[pinkpanther]

After one or two topics like that, you will be wiser. You will refrain from going into any more discussion with me.

For two friends here, they decided they wanted to turn the table. They go after my religion, my prophet, and myself. But I can answer every question they may bring up with civility. I explain their misunderstandings. I destroy their arguments. Then they will start insulting my prophet and that is where I will make my exit.

I have given you the answers to your Biblical questions as best as I could hor...so pls stop lying to yourself that i refrain from any discussion with you...

Things only get heated when you became delusional...
 we gave you what was clearly written from your own sources the Hadiths..but you refuse to accept and deem them as lies...
Your knowledge of the Quran and Hadiths are lacking but you continued to embarrassed yourself with "own goal" ...  and you expect me to treat you seriously?

Sorry hor...when you misquoted the Biblical verses and interpreted as your own..you can never win any argument..

We insult your prophet?? We do not create lies about your prophet...we always back it up with findings before posting it hor...

Oh..regarding your exit...pls make it a permanent one!! We could care less with your repeated questions every week!

[cheekopekman]

Story of Adam and Eve as per Quran-Part one

Story of Adam and Eve Part two

Read the Bible lah!  Genesis 1-4 lah!

[Oyk]

Are you not being insensitive.  If such words were uttered against against one your revered prophets what will happen? What decree will come from the Ayatollah?  Be wary of what comes out of your mouth.

I have given you the answers to your Biblical questions as best as I could hor...so pls stop lying to yourself that i refrain from any discussion with you...

Things only get heated when you became delusional...
 we gave you what was clearly written from your own sources the Hadiths..but you refuse to accept and deem them as lies...
Your knowledge of the Quran and Hadiths are lacking but you continued to embarrassed yourself with "own goal" ...  and you expect me to treat you seriously?

Sorry hor...when you misquoted the Biblical verses and interpreted as your own..you can never win any argument..

We insult your prophet?? We do not create lies about your prophet...we always back it up with findings before posting it hor...

I don't think he will ever quote Thomas Part 1 again because you will quote back Thomas Part 2 to him.

I will vouch that you didn't lie about Muhammad because you'd always quoted your sources from the Hadiths. 

I have several questions about the Hadiths but dare not write it here because he will threaten ISD. But if he gives permission, I will ask him to explain the Hadiths.....and also the Qur'an. 

Some of them are very embarrassing and I ask not to insult his prophet, but I want to let a knowledgeable Muslim explain to me before I say the Shahada. If the explanation makes sense, who knows, one day I will also call Muhammad my prophet.

[Lukongsimi]

[pinkpanther]

I don't think he will ever quote Thomas Part 1 again because you will quote back Thomas Part 2 to him.

I will vouch that you didn't lie about Muhammad because you'd always quoted your sources from the Hadiths. 

I have several questions about the Hadiths but dare not write it here because he will threaten ISD. But if he gives permission, I will ask him to explain the Hadiths.....and also the Qur'an. 

Some of them are very embarrassing and I ask not to insult his prophet, but I want to let a knowledgeable Muslim explain to me before I say the Shahada. If the explanation makes sense, who knows, one day I will also call Muhammad my prophet.

Thank you for your vote of confidence
There is nothing to gain from spreading lies..
I'm sure the other party do not understand because lying is permissible in their religion...

What makes you think the 2 Muslims here are competent enough to answer your questions?
Besides reciting their Arabic prayers in a rhythmic and melodious way...there is no way to  gauge their full comprehension of the Quran and Hadiths...your questions will be better answered by an Imam...


I have tested their knowledge and you know where it stands...one eg They claim that God cannot be human...but they failed to realise that their God appeared as a boy infront of the just awoken prophet...when you gave them the findings...they will " but bodoh" and quickly move on   That is the kick man!

[WhatDoYouThink!]

Read the Bible lah!  Genesis 1-4 lah!

Have you watched jurasic park and Jumanji?

[pinkpanther]

It is to make sure Muslim don’t make him a son of God or diety

He is the final prophet for humanity, people follow him as a role model,Quran urges believers to praise and salute him.
We believe Allah must have urged the followers of Moses ,Jesus and other messengers to praise and salute them in their scriptures too.
Muslim even today, praise and salute when the names of 25 prophets including Jesus are mentioned.


“Do not exaggerate about me as was exaggerated about ‘Isa(Jesus )ibn Maryam. Say: the slave of Allah and His Messenger.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6830.)”

Your Allah already make it clear for you...but you do not listen.. 
Tell me below where it says you need to bring along Muhammad? 

If you need to pray for Muhammad then let it be a separate one ....this is the only respect that you can show to your God...Haiya!

Indeed it is Me, Allah - there is no God except I - therefore worship Me and keep the prayer established for My remembrance." "I am GOD; there is no other god beside Me. You shall worship Me alone, and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) to remember Me.

[Oyk]

Pls pay attention in class next time.

If this weren’t shocking enough, Allah appeared as a beautiful beardless young man with short curly hair!

“I saw my Lord in the most beautiful form like a youth with abundant hair.” (al-Daraqutni, Kitab al-Ru’ya, 332-333; 356-357; similar reports from Umm al-Tufayl, Anas b. Malik, Mu’adh b. ‘Afra, Ibn ‘Umar, ‘A’isha, Ibn ‘Abbas; Reported by Tabarani; Ibn Abi ‘Asim; al-Bayhaqi; al-Suyuti; al-Haythami; Ibn ‘Adi, al-Baghdadi)

I saw my Lord in the form of a young man, beardless (amrad) with short curly hair (ja’d) and clothed in a red garment. (Narrated by Ahmad b. Hanbal in Tabarani; AUTHENTICATED BY AHMAD B. HANBAL in Creed 3 citing isnad, ‘Abd al-Samad b. Yahya in Tabaqat al-Hanabila, 1:218, al-Marrudhi (d. 888) in Tabaqat, 3:81, Ibn ‘Aqil in Makdisi, Ibn ‘Aqil, 130; Ibn ‘Adi al-Qattan, al-Kamil fi du’afa’ al-rijal, 3:49-50, al-Daraqutni, Kitab al-Ru’ya, 332-333, 356-357; al-Tabarani, al-Mu’jam al-Kabir, 25:143; SAHIH BY ABU L-HASAN B. BASHSHAR in Ibn Abi Ya’la, Tabaqat, 2:59; Abu Ya’la, al-Muta’mad, 85; ACCEPTED BY IBN TAYMIYYA in Bayan Tablis al-Jahmiyya, 7:192-19

Thank you for your vote of confidence
There is nothing to gain from spreading lies..
I'm sure the other party do not understand because lying is permissible in their religion...

What makes you think the 2 Muslims here are competent enough to answer your questions?
Besides reciting their Arabic prayers in a rhythmic and melodious way...there is no way to  gauge their full comprehension of the Quran and Hadiths...your questions will be better answered by an Imam...


I have tested their knowledge and you know where it stands...one eg They claim that God cannot be human...but they failed to realise that their God appeared as a boy infront of the just awoken prophet...when you gave them the findings...they will " but bodoh" and quickly move on   That is the kick man!

You are referring to the first post above?