[sgbuffett]

Raising this issue in Parliament risks heated attacks from the PAP because it is their pet policy and they will do anything to defend it.

The debate is totally asymmetric as :

1. The PAP holds all the data and refuse to give free access. It means they can ambush him with data they are holding a d hide data against them.

2. He has to handle many attacks coming from all directions from PAP members who totally outnumber him including ex lawyers and debaters.

3. He has to endure insults, cornering and  also trick questions designed to trap him...and all the dirty ploys they play on him to make him look bad. He was also falsely accused of promoting racism and xenophobia.  

But one thing the PAP cannot do is change the truth. The truth we can observe with our own eyes.....the real numbers we observe on the ground.

We know the negative impact of PAP policies from our own experience. When we try to buy a home we know prices are less affordable as demand has gone up. When we apply for a job it is harder to get as there are so many applicants including foreigners. If we do get a job it is harder to hold on to it as the employers can replace us easily with foreigners willing to accept lower pay. These are the hard truths faced by Singaporeans on a daily basis.

No amount of insults and false accusations against Leong Mun Wai can change the truth.

[Blasterlord2]

lj talk

that fcuked face idiot made a fool of himself

and all the oppie retards who carried his balls, like you

Can tell me what he said that he 'made a fool of himself'? I only know that Vivian truly made a fool of himself this time.

[Blasterlord2]

You must be stupid like him to ask

No wonder you like PAP. Same thinking, if someone disagrees with you, that person is stupid.

[Symmetry]

Alot of comments from many other forums said that V made himself and PaP look like childish brats in school.

[sgbuffett]

cannot fault Vivian for making an honest comment on his intellect

all here agree?

Vivian had to apologise....Vivian is the one who made a fool of himself.

The PAP MPs and minister behaved like clowns trying to put words into LMW mouth.

[forum456]

Raising this issue in Parliament risks heated attacks from the PAP because it is their pet policy and they will do anything to defend it.

The debate is totally asymmetric as :

1. The PAP holds all the data and refuse to give free access. It means they can ambush him with data they are holding a d hide data against them.

2. He has to handle many attacks coming from all directions from PAP members who totally outnumber him including ex lawyers and debaters.

3. He has to endure insults, cornering and  also trick questions designed to trap him...and all the dirty ploys they play on him to make him look bad. He was also falsely accused of promoting racism and xenophobia.  

But one thing the PAP cannot do is change the truth. The truth we can observe with our own eyes.....the real numbers we observe on the ground.

We know the negative impact of PAP policies from our own experience. When we try to buy a home we know prices are less affordable as demand has gone up. When we apply for a job it is harder to get as there are so many applicants including foreigners. If we do get a job it is harder to hold on to it as the employers can replace us easily with foreigners willing to accept lower pay. These are the hard truths faced by Singaporeans on a daily basis.

No amount of insults and false accusations against Leong Mun Wai can change the truth.

[forum456]

Vivian had to apologise....Vivian is the one who made a fool of himself.

The PAP MPs and minister behaved like clowns trying to put words into LMW mouth.

[Blasterlord2]

Which part of what LMW said is not clear? He's not against FTAs in general but only in FTAs with specific with terms that promote free movement of foreigners into our country. Of course PAP can say this is not true, but hey, we see it with our eyes. I don't even need data to support my conviction that this is true.

And for the last time, PAP supporters, this is not about racism. If it is, I dare the govt to enact laws to disallow the mention of 'ceca'. I'm not sure why this message hasn't been drummed in despite repeated clarification.

[Blasterlord2]

You have not apologized for making a big fool of yourself with you buy SembMarine to end state calls

You need to learn from a gentleman like Vivian who earned voters respect for his courage to apologize

Clown and scum is you, for years

Time for you to repent and apologize

Do you first agree that it is damn childish of Vivian to mention a person's education 30 to 40 (maybe even 50) years ago? Who in their right mind will do that?

[forum456]

Raising this issue in Parliament risks heated attacks from the PAP because it is their pet policy and they will do anything to defend it.

The debate is totally asymmetric as :

1. The PAP holds all the data and refuse to give free access. It means they can ambush him with data they are holding a d hide data against them.

2. He has to handle many attacks coming from all directions from PAP members who totally outnumber him including ex lawyers and debaters.

3. He has to endure insults, cornering and  also trick questions designed to trap him...and all the dirty ploys they play on him to make him look bad. He was also falsely accused of promoting racism and xenophobia.  

Mr Leong and PSP did not prepare properly for the debate.

Below are the reasons:
1) He cannot produce proof that CECA/FTAs are the root cause.
2) He did not rebut PAP for accusing him of  racism and xenophobia.
3) He has no solid data to show that the job problem exists.
4) He keeps saying he has no data. How can he win debate when he has no data?
     If he has no data, do not debate. Just ask for data or collect data first.

Opposition needs better speaker/debater like Dr Chee.

[RichDad]

Yes, kudos to ah wai for the guts to bring this to debate. Although he was out argued, it was expected. But I think Pritam was best in bringing out the sentiment on the ground. 

Pap is probably right on the macro picture but it is the small details that are missing that made people unhappy and frustrated and uncertain.

More calibration needed for sure. No need to turn racist.

[RichDad]

Mr Leong and PSP did not prepare properly for the debate.

Below are the reasons:
1) He cannot produce proof that CECA/FTAs are the root cause.
2) He did not rebut PAP for accusing him of  racism and xenophobia.
3) He has no solid data to show that the job problem exists.
4) He keeps saying he has no data. How can he win debate when he has no data?
     If he has no data, do not debate. Just ask for data or collect data first.

Opposition needs better speaker/debater like Dr Chee.

Yes, agreed. Not a very good showing by PSP.  SDP might do better. They had more resources and research.

[Talent]

gov so stupid

rebutt back in stupid Qs

the exact numbers is in gov hand

so many vacancies
my foot

[forum456]

Mr Leong and PSP did not prepare properly for the debate.

Below are the reasons:
1) He cannot produce proof that CECA/FTAs are the root cause.
2) He did not rebut PAP for accusing him of  racism and xenophobia.
3) He has no solid data to show that the job problem exists.
4) He keeps saying he has no data. How can he win debate when he has no data?
     If he has no data, do not debate. Just ask for data or collect data first.

Opposition needs better speaker/debater like Dr Chee.

When K Shanmugam attacked his motion, Mr Leong could not defend his motion.

Once he could not defend his motion, his motion would become invalid and no point for any debate because he cannot
explain and understand his own motion.

[sgbuffett]

When K Shanmugam attacked his motion, Mr Leong could not defend his motion.

Once he could not defend his motion, his motion would become invalid and no point for any debate because he cannot
explain and understand his own motion.

He defended his motion and explained.
They refuse to accept his explanation.

[Talent]

bloody stupid

so many in their 40s to 60s are having no income or less than 500 income

isnt this under employed

they are living in castle
detached from reality

[Talent]

all the useless leaders

blinded by their million salary

talk like stupid idiots

[forum456]

Yes, agreed. Not a very good showing by PSP.  SDP might do better. They had more resources and research.

Out of all opposition parties, SDP is a party that focuses on coming out new national policies in earlier years.
This is due to the academic background of Dr Chee who focuses on policy research.
Unfortunately, this focus did not appeal to voters at the ground who got problem understanding his political agenda.
Recent years, Dr Chee has changed to be more down to earth with voters.

[Gemstar]

Raising this issue in Parliament risks heated attacks from the PAP because it is their pet policy and they will do anything to defend it.

The debate is totally asymmetric as :

1. The PAP holds all the data and refuse to give free access. It means they can ambush him with data they are holding a d hide data against them.

2. He has to handle many attacks coming from all directions from PAP members who totally outnumber him including ex lawyers and debaters.

3. He has to endure insults, cornering and  also trick questions designed to trap him...and all the dirty ploys they play on him to make him look bad. He was also falsely accused of promoting racism and xenophobia.  

But one thing the PAP cannot do is change the truth. The truth we can observe with our own eyes.....the real numbers we observe on the ground.

We know the negative impact of PAP policies from our own experience. When we try to buy a home we know prices are less affordable as demand has gone up. When we apply for a job it is harder to get as there are so many applicants including foreigners. If we do get a job it is harder to hold on to it as the employers can replace us easily with foreigners willing to accept lower pay. These are the hard truths faced by Singaporeans on a daily basis.

No amount of insults and false accusations against Leong Mun Wai can change the truth.

LMW deserves high praise for this debate. Otherwise, many Singaporeans wud hv been ignorant on this or unaware of this CECA concerns. LMW shd stands strong with many Singaporeans supporting his views and standing in his side. 

[Gemstar]

He defended his motion and explained.
They refuse to accept his explanation.

Since when those ministers wil admit they are not right. All these years, whv seen many of their mistakes and yet, never admit nor apologise.

[RichDad]

Out of all opposition parties, SDP is a party that focuses on coming out new national policies in earlier years.
This is due to the academic background of Dr Chee who focuses on policy research.
Unfortunately, this focus did not appeal to voters at the ground who got problem understanding his political agenda.
Recent years, Dr Chee has changed to be more down to earth with voters.

Chee got a very bad baggage from his past. Whether he is really bad or good, the public perceived him as a bad oppie due to his combative style back then and smear campaign by pap. Then he got into the chiam thing. That did him in.

Now he trying to repair his reputation but it may be too late for him as people's perceptions still linger. Even a weak Ah Mu can beat him.

Unless when a whole new generation of voters emerge and he is still around, then he may have a chance. But he is not young already. Very tough.

[forum456]

He defended his motion and explained.
They refuse to accept his explanation.

No. You can view the video again.
When Shanmugam questioned him that the motion about free flow of people in his motion is not true, he could
not prove it to be true.
if the motion is not true, how to debate ?

at one point, he even asked if he could get his team member Hazel to answer to Shanmugam.
PAP MPs laughed at him
at another point, Shanmugam asked a simple question or his opinion, he tried to find answer from his computer pad.
Shanmugam was shocked that he needed a computer pad to give an opinion.



from 30 min onwards.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/watch/k-...cy-2176106

[luncheonmeat]

No. You can view the video again.
When Shanmugam questioned him that the motion about free flow of people in his motion is not true, he could
not prove it to be true.
if the motion is not true, how to debate ?

at one point, he even asked if he could get his team member Hazel to answer to Shanmugam.
PAP MPs laughed at him

from 30 min onwards.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/watch/k-...cy-2176106

Mun Wai is more articulate in Jap dan Ang Mo. Iz not dat his Englund is bad, he definitely writes well as we can hear from his prepared speech. Iz just dat he isn't as eloquent with impromptu speeches. PAPaya jokers are trying to trap him by badgering him for blanket 'yes"  or "no" answers when the argument he presented was deeper dan dat.
 
 
Had Bala not been exposed in public for making those derogatory remarks, he would not have to eat crow now so stop calling him 'courageous' for apologising when he had no other choice but to do so or lose votes for PAPaya..

[forum456]

Mun Wai is more articulate in Jap dan Ang Mo. Iz not dat his Englund is bad, he definitely writes well as we can hear from his prepared speech. Iz just dat he isn't as eloquent with impromptu debates. PAPaya jokers are trying to trap him by badgering him for blanket 'yes"  or "no" answers when the argument he presented was deeper dan dat.
 
 
Had Bala not been exposed in public for making those derogatory remarks, he would not have to eat crow now so stop calling him 'courageous' for apologising when he had no other choice but to do so or lose votes for PAPaya..

it is not about being articulate or eloquence.
Shanmugam questioned him on true or false, he was not able to answer.
if you cannot answer true or false, it means you are not clear about your motion

[ArielCasper]

cannot fault Vivian for making an honest comment on his intellect

all here agree?

Err.. 5354, then you better make sure you son get into ACS, coz all other schools are lousy schools according to Vivian..

[ArielCasper]

I wonder how TSL feel when he answered "I am from Monk's Hill"..

He must be like !@#$.

From the way Vivian put it, only ACS is good school (I am quite sure he knows LML is not from ACS, coz if not he would have known thru the ACS network).

[RiseofAsia]

Raising this issue in Parliament risks heated attacks from the PAP because it is their pet policy and they will do anything to defend it.

The debate is totally asymmetric as :

1. The PAP holds all the data and refuse to give free access. It means they can ambush him with data they are holding a d hide data against them.

2. He has to handle many attacks coming from all directions from PAP members who totally outnumber him including ex lawyers and debaters.

3. He has to endure insults, cornering and  also trick questions designed to trap him...and all the dirty ploys they play on him to make him look bad. He was also falsely accused of promoting racism and xenophobia.  

But one thing the PAP cannot do is change the truth. The truth we can observe with our own eyes.....the real numbers we observe on the ground.

We know the negative impact of PAP policies from our own experience. When we try to buy a home we know prices are less affordable as demand has gone up. When we apply for a job it is harder to get as there are so many applicants including foreigners. If we do get a job it is harder to hold on to it as the employers can replace us easily with foreigners willing to accept lower pay. These are the hard truths faced by Singaporeans on a daily basis.

No amount of insults and false accusations against Leong Mun Wai can change the truth.

I have already praised him. 

[ArielCasper]

Think of the saga positively.. People, especially those from RI, who might have previously ignored the FT issue, may now have the interest to checkout the background of the saga..

In the end, still good/free publicity for the FT issue that LML is fighting for.

[lionkingch55]

He tried his best to bring up Singaporean s fears and frustration over indiscriminate free flow of  foreign 'talents' at the expense of locals.

[Instinct]

LMW did an excellent job in parliament bringing up FT floodgate. Sg need more of such MP in parliament. Next GE, must vote in more PSP member so as to shut up those cocky minister that do personal attack.