[sgbuffett]

If you go and look at the rules and policies,everything seems okay.
But people took advantage - girl came in through family ties, ktv that were 
supposed to operate as food places following safe distancing simply 
returned to their old ways.

If not for the explosion of cases something that cannot be hidden nobody can say that the regulations and policies are bad. Authorities can deny there was anything wrong 

Loopholes matter. Even more than the intention of rules and policies. This is what bring about unintended consequences.

Just look at the SGX. The listing rules run into hundreds of pages yet unscrupulous crooks managed to get their companies listed to defraud so .any
Singaporean investors over the yrs yet little is done.

If you look at CECA, they argue that this and that is in place but what is happening at the ground? Do they know?

[forum456]

Loopholes matter. Even more than the intention of rules and policies. This is what bring about unintended consequences.

The problem is not rules or loopholes.
The problem is that the solution or rules for the problem are not effective.
That is why it has loopholes.

For example, the govt said 5 persons dine  in if they are vaccinated.
But most restaurants implement 2 persons dine in.
it cannot motivate people to vaccinate if no restaurant implements 5 persons dine in.

[forum456]

Loopholes matter. Even more than the intention of rules and policies. This is what bring about unintended consequences.

The problem is not rules or loopholes.
The problem is that the solution or rules for the problem are not effective.
That is why it has loopholes.

For example, the govt said 5 persons dine  in if they are vaccinated.
But most restaurants implement 2 persons dine in.
it cannot motivate people to vaccinate if no restaurant implements 5 persons dine in.

If I am the govt, I will say customers will get 20% discount at restaurants if they are vaccinated.
This solution is effective because more people will be encouraged to go for vaccination.

what is the point of 5 person dine in when you cannot find the restaurant for 5 persons dine in ?

[forum456]

My friend used to work in the govt, always asked one question.

Is this new thing or solution being used after 1 year ?

Most of the time, he would get answers that it was not being used after some time.

He will know that it is the same govt and no change from last time.

[Gstalk]

If you look at CECA, they argue that this and that is in place but what is happening at the ground? Do they know?

They closed both eyes esp Ah Shame

[forum456]

My friend used to work in the govt, always asked one question.

Is this new thing or solution being used after 1 year ?

Most of the time, he would get answers that it was not being used after some time.

He will know that it is the same govt and no change from last time.

In private sector, the person will be fired if the solution is not being used after some time.
it means his solution must be effective and accountable.

now you understand why there is loophole in govt solution because it is not effective and not permanent.
like keep changing the dine in rule is not an effective soltuion.
2 to 5, then 5 to 2 and then 2 to 5 and then 5 to 2 ?

[Blasterlord2]

You think the govt doesn't know of all these loopholes? It'll be naive to think so.

The truth is that they know, but chose not to do anything because these are the things that don't get them into the limelight. What ministers want are new work, so that they can tell people they're thinking of fresh ideas. They're not interested in patching holes.

[toothpick]

In every country, surely there will be such clusters of people. Exploitation of loop holes.

The questions here is, does the rest of society and economy need to suffer because of this cluster of people.

Alot of $$$ has already been lost. The process of quarantine is costing the country/tax payers alot of money. Businesses have lost alot of money as well.

[Talent]

everyone are tired including me

read this from fb joe tan

The F&B and the Hospitality Industry are Tired.

Last year when the circuit breaker struck back in Apr 20, the F&B and Hospitality industry collectively held their breaths.

Two and a half months of closure, but the government stepped forward with some rent reliefs (up to 3 months full rental) and wage support (75% with JSS).

Because it was the first time everyone had to experience it, we bit the bullet and rode through the storm.

At the turn of 2021, we started to see some silver lining, 8 pax dine in options opened. Until in late Apr 21, when the Delta variant descended upon our shores, and just like deja Vu, we went on yet another new coined phase, The Heighten Alert. No dining in, only takeaway. Same same, but different.

Because this was not circuit breaker, the subsidies also drastically dropped to half a month rent subsidies for private tenant, and 50% wages rebate from JSS.

Life is tough, but we try yet again, to ride through the storm. Then when we start to see a small light at the end of the tunnel again, Singaporean males decided to let others use their microphones to sing in discreet rooms, which brings us back to where we are today.

Phase I don't know what, with reviewed Heighten Alert on I don't know what modified guidelines. In short, from 19 July to 8 Aug , 2 pax dining in, anything more than that is a ten step process to verify them on their Vaccination journey, which they will probably leave before you complete the check.

But why do I say the F&B and Hospitality Industries are tired? Allow me to share with you my hard truths once again. This is not a political post, so please do not sensationalise it as one.

1) What is the Government's Priority?
Since Covid invaded our shores back in early 2020, the plan was to tackle it and create a zero case outcome for Singapore. However, when the Delta variant wrecked havoc on us, our Prime Minister and the government decided to adjust our course to instead acknowledge that the Covid Virus is here to stay, and that we must tackle it like an endemic. With that, the approach was to achieve high vaccination rate to counter balance the infection. The philosophy is pretty simple, if the vaccine can reduce fatality amongst Singaporeans, then we will be able to live with it in the longer run like how we treat the common cold. But this clarity has slowly lost its weight with the reduction of 5 to 2 pax dining in announcement yesterday. KTV or not, the spread of the virus can happen anywhere, be it in concerts, clubs when it opens next time or even at gyms. If we already declare Covid as a virus to be tackled as an endemic, why are we still moving in and out on the stance to call in restrictions on such reactive means? This only shows that we are not ready in the first place to treat Covid as an endemic, and brings me to the next point.

2) Does the F&B and Hospitality Industry Even Matter to Singapore?
On a more basic needs level, F&B industry plays a big part in feeding our people, the hospitality industry acts as a means to deliver such service to our people. But yet with each change in policy to tackle the evolving Covid situation, the industry bleeds, and bleeds heavily. First, switching from 2 to 5 to 8 to 5 to 2 again in the span of a year, to the layman are just numbers (maybe 4D or TOTO numbers too). But to the industry, it's loss revenue, stress in trying to balance their books and also challenge in keeping their staff paid. As much as our government focuses on the big ticket items such as manufacturing, finance and IT to keep our GDP high, the F&B and Hospitality industry cannot be seen as a by the way or the sorry-you-have-to-suck-it-up victim. We feed Singaporeans, we give Singaporeans sanity with service and also a good time in their leisure and post work rest. The industry is bigger than that, yet we cannot protect ourselves unless the government starts to realize that we need strong leadership now to make a call, either we truly live with it as an endemic or just shut the whole country down, reset and remove those unwanted noises that could jeopardize the road to recovery, once and for all. This is not a game of tango, you dont take one step forward and three steps back later and thereafter declare it as progress.

3) Don't Act Blur on the Obvious.
I think even my dog who walks past a KTV joint knows that they are operating illegally as a KTV joint in this period. So I'm not sure why we act as if this is like a novelty now that the virus has gone out of hand. Maybe it's because we need to continue to provide lust releasing avenues to ensure mental wellness of our males. But fact of the matter is, as Singaporeans ourselves, we know how unhygienic such spaces are. You shut down family KTVs to prevent people from singing in groups and sharing mics and close clubs to prevent people from intermingling and drinking from the same glass. Yet you allow KTV girls to sing songs into multiple people's mics, share drinks with not only one room but multiple others, and then come back to kiss everyone on their lips too. On so many common sense level, it just doesn't feel right. But yet when it boils down to why it happened. Well, it kinda all started when we allowed temporary F&B licenses to be issued to such venues isn't it? We, opened the can of worms ourselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that every one of these spaces are bad, I'm just saying that if we want to give, then we must police it closely. Why? Because Singaporean males' moment of lust has once again caused 13,000 Singapore F&B establishments into another downward spiral, and the 180,000 employees that it employ into uncertainty. So how now brown cow? Should our government start allowing free porn access? Or should we continue to let the singers sing?

Endemic or Pandemic, the current covid regulations have gotten harder and harder to comprehend.

Is it because we are getting confused over how we wish to manage Covid? Or is it time for us to review who is the next best player to come in to transit covid into an endemic outcome?

We have to decide, and decide fast,
Before the whole F&B and Hospitality sector falls apart.

The F&B and Hospitality Industry are tired.
Singaporeans are tired.
I'm tired.

[WhatDoYouThink?]

must learn from china, hk, Macau and several other places

[Blasterlord2]

everyone are tired including me

read this from fb joe tan

The F&B and the Hospitality Industry are Tired.

This Joe Tan is saying nothing new. So what did he recommend?

[Niubee]

This govt is so used to money from people trafficking into the countries.

They get to feed the coffer and also the business who rely on cheap workers.

[starbugs]

I find it incredible that govt believes KTV lounges can pivot to F&B without any oversight. Then LW can claim police are stretched. And that short-term pass holders' purpose to come to SG is just to visit their boyfriends. Come on lah!

[RichDad]

You think the govt doesn't know of all these loopholes? It'll be naive to think so.

The truth is that they know, but chose not to do anything because these are the things that don't get them into the limelight. What ministers want are new work, so that they can tell people they're thinking of fresh ideas. They're not interested in patching holes.

Doesn't make sense. Why would they want to make bad publicity for themselves? Make them look bad.

I think they either didn't foresee the loopholes or didn't ensure enforcement.

[Huliwang]

LW already said it is a "cat and mouse" game by people evading the rules and enforcement manpower is fully stretched. You just look at wearing mask rules you can see people still playing cat and mouse with enforcers by wearing masks on their chins and some not wearing. It is the same in ktvs and other places.

Only way is total lock down like what China is doing but it seems like we cannot afford to lock down as we are not self sufficient and needs trade and tourism to go on.

[Migrant]

I look around sports toto, market place, kopi shops, so many old folks wearing masks beneath chin.
Smokers boh chap.
It boils down to individual responsibility.

[WhatDoYouThink?]

for those who wear masks below noses, other than this what else could be done?

[forum456]

We need to change the Minister of Health due to mismanagement of covid.

It is stupid to keep changing dine in from 2 to 5, then 5 to 2 and then 2 to 5 and then 5 to 2.
This is not solution but like primary school student playing guessing game.

[Blasterlord2]

You think the govt doesn't know of all these loopholes? It'll be naive to think so.

The truth is that they know, but chose not to do anything because these are the things that don't get them into the limelight. What ministers want are new work, so that they can tell people they're thinking of fresh ideas. They're not interested in patching holes.

Doesn't make sense. Why would they want to make bad publicity for themselves? Make them look bad.

I think they either didn't foresee the loopholes or didn't ensure enforcement.

People at the working level in govt likely know the loopholes but did not surface to higher-up. Bad publicity doesn't concern these people. And why didn't they surface it up? Because there's no incentive for them to do so.

[RichDad]

Doesn't make sense. Why would they want to make bad publicity for themselves? Make them look bad.

I think they either didn't foresee the loopholes or didn't ensure enforcement.

People at the working level in govt likely know the loopholes but did not surface to higher-up. Bad publicity doesn't concern these people. And why didn't they surface it up? Because there's no incentive for them to do so.

So you are saying the lower level staff bo chap? Then it is possible because of their culture. But it seems unreal  that our highly paid ministers can't see these loopholes? Too high on the ivory tower?

[forum456]

So you are saying the lower level staff bo chap? Then it is possible because of their culture. But it seems unreal  that our highly paid ministers can't see these loopholes? Too high on the ivory tower?

The answer is very simple.

Singapore govt wants to live with covid.
HK govt wants to eliminate covid.

In HK, the govt will ban the airline that brings in infected covid passengers.

In Singapore, our govt does not ban airlines that bring in infected covid passengers.

Which govt will control covid better ?

PAP govt must learn from HK govt on how they control covid in KTV industry.

[Blasterlord2]

People at the working level in govt likely know the loopholes but did not surface to higher-up. Bad publicity doesn't concern these people. And why didn't they surface it up? Because there's no incentive for them to do so.

So you are saying the lower level staff bo chap? Then it is possible because of their culture. But it seems unreal  that our highly paid ministers can't see these loopholes? Too high on the ivory tower?

Ministers probably have hundreds of things to settle every day. You think they know about the loopholes? They depend on the lower level people to tell them but unfortunately this won't happen 

[Blasterlord2]

So you are saying the lower level staff bo chap? Then it is possible because of their culture. But it seems unreal  that our highly paid ministers can't see these loopholes? Too high on the ivory tower?

The answer is very simple.

Singapore govt wants to live with covid.
HK govt wants to eliminate covid.

In HK, the govt will ban the airline that brings in infected covid passengers.

In Singapore, our govt does not ban airlines that bring in infected covid passengers.

Which govt will control covid better ?

PAP govt must learn from HK govt on how they control covid in KTV industry.

This is all thanks to HK protests that happened a few years ago. Before that, if the HK govt tried to impose harsh measures you can be sure that they'll face a lot of backlash. Now all the people diam diam listen because they know behind the HK govt is a dictatorial Chinese govt which will not hesitate to show them who's the true master of HK.

[Sticw]

Ministers and top policy makers will tell you they never go ktv before hence won't know the impact etc lah. Genuine mistake move on lah. 

Local community spread is actually very bad situation given lots more blind spot...

[Cmpunk]

But if they let them change to F&B than they should have do a proper check on them don’t tell me that they don’t know or they simply close one eye?

[Migrant]

Be glad we are still alive.
Whichever way they use, its for our own good.
Those KTV fellows boh chap, we suffer.

[Migrant]

The Olympic Village's regulations are very strict, yet 4 infected.

[surfer]

Ministers and top policy makers will tell you they never go ktv before hence won't know the impact etc lah. Genuine mistake move on lah. 

Local community spread is actually very bad situation given lots more blind spot...

Problem is too many dom and dym stay at home and have itchy dicks. So they have to release somewhere outside and you get these clusters. They think with their small heads and not their brains.

[klat]

If you go and look at the rules and policies,everything seems okay.
But people took advantage - girl came in through family ties, ktv that were 
supposed to operate as food places following safe distancing simply 
returned to their old ways.

It is because the Po.lice is not doing its job.

Where is Ah Shame???