[sgbuffett]

Unrelated facts? I'm saying that money has to come from somewhere. They have chosen a way of life that has high cost in almost everything and then you quote their healthcare. Aren't you cherry-picking?

Taiwan has a single payer system and they don't have same high cost of living. 

Your assertion that such a healthcare system = high cost of living($24 McD);is not proven nor true.

[Blasterlord2]

Taiwan has a single payer system and they don't have same high cost of living. 

Your assertion that such a healthcare system = high cost of living($24 McD);is not proven nor true.

Then why don't you go to Taiwan to live? You know how low their salary is or not? You know how farking lousy is their infra?

I did not assert that low healthcare system = high cost of living. I only said that the money has to come from somewhere. I use the example Israel because that is what you use.

[Bigiron]

Sorry people will not move out because of this but will try to vote the govt out. I have thought about this issue for a long time give me a bit of time to explain.

There are broadly 3 types of system..
1. 100% shared system. Often these are single payer system. You pay tax and insurance to govt based on your wealth and income level. When you get sick the govt takes care of you 100% you pay almost nothing out of pocket. Taiwan, HK, France, Israel, etc are using this 

2. Every man for himself system. You use your own money or buy private insurance. If you cannot afford too bad. One example is USA where it is common for people to be bankrupted by medical bills. They tried to fix it with Obamacare and mediaid but system is still very bad.

3. Then we have the hybrid system like Singapore. Thee govt pays some using taxes and leave gaps which individuals have to fill. medishield life Has copay limits beyojd which you pay out of pocket, preventive care and dental not covered, if you have an emergence you need to pay $128 for A&E ..if you run into some illness that bust the limits of medishield you need to drain your own savings until nothing then you can get some help. That is why private insurance sells cancer plan, integrated plan riders, critical illness to patch all these gaps.

In the past the Singapore system is not that bad. But as cost of medical care escalates along with the income gap. Many problems emerge. Along the way the govt put some patches ,...CHAS card, Pioneer package, Merdeka package . .all these patches are not be needed if one start off with a single payer system in the first place ...imagine what people were coping with before these patches where in place ..

There is no reason whyba single payer system would not work in Singapore. Singapore was a British colony and UK has a single payer system. ..Canada has runs it's single payer system for more than 80yrs and still going strong. Taiwan has the No.1 healthcare system and when they designed the system from ground up they chose a single payer system.

The Singapore system is more a reflection of the PAP thinking ...in their elitist mind they feel that people should not share. They are okay with high inequality in society because they ultimately are the top winners of the so called meritocracy game. Under their rule ralative poverty keeps rising and the disadvantaged enters a vicious cycle. ...a cycle that is beginning to such in the middle class who start to feel insecure...healthcare being one area of concern.


Not people action party more like patch adding party 
.

[Bigiron]

1. Cut cost reduce number of pap MP
2. Remove jlb mayor
3. Reduce minister and MP salary
4. Reduce defense budget
5. Tax yes tax on wealth or capital tax.

[cheekopekman]

Okay this is not a big deal  but got me to reflect on the WP MP  exchange with the minister...over values of our society 

My mom had a stomach ache that went on for a few hrs she said no need but insisted to see doctor yesterday 

The doctor was very nice and diagnosed my mom carefully. After that he prescribed some  medicine and he said it was good if my mom took some probiotics.

When I paid the bill it came to $30 because the probiotics was not subsidised 

It's okay because at this point in time I can easily afford.  But suppose I fell on hard times like business failed,   lost job or had health crisis et I was supposed to request for medical social worker to whom I was supposed to explain all my misfortune then wait for some judgement on whether the medicine can be subsidised. I think even if I was broke I would take my last $30 to pay then figure out how to cope later on....which is stressful but more dignified 

I want to bring attention to values of our society vs other society as reflected by how we care for the sick given we will have many poor elderly patients in coming years .

In 2011, thousands of Israeli doctors protested. What is this protest about? Israeli govt implement co-payment of $5 for public outpatient visits which were previously free. It violated the principle that everyone can get access to healthcare without worrying about being able to afford payment.

You can say they are right or wrong but they have a different set of principles and values reflected in the system they aspire to build. 
 

..
You may think that suxh a system leads to high govt expenses and high cost for the govt  this is not true Israel has the most cost effective system in the world 



What the WP MP said is true. How we care for our sick reflects our values. When we make elderly jump through hoops and loops just to use his own Medisave funds. It is not even close to what others have in place to care for their elderly.

Some people pointed out that we need to spend on defense so cannot have some type of system as Hong Kong, Taiwan and Japan. I think these are excuses right because Israel spend even more on defense ...

We have a society where ideas are entrenched and cannot improve.

WP or PAP, who do you support leh?

[winbig]

LKY didnt say that when he was Opposítion

Use ur brain if u hv one, LKY is not ur father, or is he?

LKY is one of the founding fathers of Singapore. So is he considered your father? Or your father is mahathir? 

[teaserteam]

Sorry people will not move out because of this but will try to vote the govt out. I have thought about this issue for a long time give me a bit of time to explain.

There are broadly 3 types of system..
1. 100% shared system. Often these are single payer system. You pay tax and insurance to govt based on your wealth and income level. When you get sick the govt takes care of you 100% you pay almost nothing out of pocket. Taiwan, HK, France, Israel, etc are using this 

2. Every man for himself system. You use your own money or buy private insurance. If you cannot afford too bad. One example is USA where it is common for people to be bankrupted by medical bills. They tried to fix it with Obamacare and mediaid but system is still very bad.

3. Then we have the hybrid system like Singapore. Thee govt pays some using taxes and leave gaps which individuals have to fill. medishield life Has copay limits beyojd which you pay out of pocket, preventive care and dental not covered, if you have an emergence you need to pay $128 for A&E ..if you run into some illness that bust the limits of medishield you need to drain your own savings until nothing then you can get some help. That is why private insurance sells cancer plan, integrated plan riders, critical illness to patch all these gaps.

In the past the Singapore system is not that bad. But as cost of medical care escalates along with the income gap. Many problems emerge. Along the way the govt put some patches ,...CHAS card, Pioneer package, Merdeka package . .all these patches are not be needed if one start off with a single payer system in the first place ...imagine what people were coping with before these patches where in place ..

There is no reason whyba single payer system would not work in Singapore. Singapore was a British colony and UK has a single payer system. ..Canada has runs it's single payer system for more than 80yrs and still going strong. Taiwan has the No.1 healthcare system and when they designed the system from ground up they chose a single payer system.

The Singapore system is more a reflection of the PAP thinking ...in their elitist mind they feel that people should not share. They are okay with high inequality in society because they ultimately are the top winners of the so called meritocracy game. Under their rule ralative poverty keeps rising and the disadvantaged enters a vicious cycle. ...a cycle that is beginning to such in the middle class who start to feel insecure...healthcare being one area of concern.



.

Every system has its advantage and disadvantage. The British system is not always the best system. The fairer marketing system is one that u pay what u buy rather than a universal rate like going to a buffet dinner where some always lose out. Actually,  the British system has lesser admin work for the government

[FangFang]

There is always input and output for running a country.. if we can source out the input, output will be able to manage ?

[teaserteam]

Every system has its advantage and disadvantage. The British system is not always the best system. The fairer marketing system is one that u pay what u buy rather than a universal rate like going to a buffet dinner where some always lose out. Actually,  the British system has lesser admin work for the government

My neighbour’s has a free Med service offered by their company. We used to envy them going to private clinic almost every week doing this and that until the company closed down one day. 

[Lukongsimi]

Go find your mp n complain

[Sentinel]

LKY is one of the founding fathers of Singapore. So is he considered your father? Or your father is mahathir? 

You need to hv ur brain washed thoroughly

You dun even know who ur father is, tats pathetic

[pinkpanther]

Don give your mom eat too much of your can food collection especially those that is near to expiry.

[Blasterlord2]

"Canada has runs it's single payer system for more than 80yrs and still going strong."

Going strong? Come on, I have a Canadian professor whom I interacted with regularly. He's always complaining about their healthcare system because the wait time is so long. Whoever could afford to pay for healthcare never ever go for the free healthcare. Free does not mean it's good.

https://www.canhealth.com/2021/09/30/can...nst-peers/

[sgbuffett]

Going strong? Come on, I have a Canadian professor whom I interacted with regularly. He's always complaining about their healthcare system because the wait time is so long. Whoever could afford to pay for healthcare never ever go for the free healthcare. Free does not mean it's good.

https://www.canhealth.com/2021/09/30/can...nst-peers/

Man's wife has cancer and was treated by Canadian healthcre he shares his experience qnd how much he as to pay.

Watch 

[sgbuffett]

Every system has its advantage and disadvantage. The British system is not always the best system. The fairer marketing system is one that u pay what u buy rather than a universal rate like going to a buffet dinner where some always lose out. Actually,  the British system has lesser admin work for the government

Yes these are fair comments its either shared or the sick person pay. ...and varying degrees.

With ever rising healthcare costs and rising income inequality, the Singapore system will accentuate the negatuve effects

[sgbuffett]

Ladies and gentlemen

sgbuffett because is born poor and a lazy jobless scum

He wants the government to pay for his mother and his medical expenses

If he has a job with CPF, he will have $63K in his CPF Medisave account when he is around 55 to 60 years old

Which will pay for all his medical insurance and medical expenses until he up lorry

This fcuking lamer should get himself a job with CPF

He will be thankful and grateful to PAP for the world class hospitalcare in Singapore

Which will cost him next to nothing because all paid by CPF

You sure the $63K in medisave is enough?
It is certainly needed  ...as healthcare costs keeps going up.

[Talent]

Ladies and gentlemen

sgbuffett because is born poor and a lazy jobless scum

He wants the government to pay for his mother and his medical expenses

If he has a job with CPF, he will have $63K in his CPF Medisave account when he is around 55 to 60 years old

Which will pay for all his medical insurance and medical expenses until he up lorry

This fcuking lamer should get himself a job with CPF

He will be thankful and grateful to PAP for the world class hospitalcare in Singapore

Which will cost him next to nothing because all paid by CPF

you are stupid to think that despite paying 1k in premium every year

your medical expenses is $0
alot of outpatient expenses/ mrdicjne up to 30 yo 50% of total bill are paid with solid cash

u are lame and stupid

[Blasterlord2]

Man's wife has cancer and was treated by Canadian healthcre he shares his experience qnd how much he as to pay.

This is a comment (from youtube) from a Singaporean:

I have been in the Finnish health care system, on one hand it saved my husband’s Near fatal hospital infection n saved us from lots of hospital bills, but on the other hand, we have paid 1.8 million sing dollars in taxes in just 7 years, n I have never been able to see a doctor in the Finnish poly clinics because they don’t have enough of doctors n nurses to attend to us, we ended up paying three times more than I did more than I would pay in a Singapore ‘s private residential clinics . These couple has not paid high taxes in a long time n they r just there to enjoy the health benefits, but it’s a drag for tax payers who r still living in the country n can’t see a doctor when we or our children r sick cause the clinics n hospitals r so jammed packed.  There’s always both sides of a coin. Canada’s unemployment rate is high n it has a locals first job market culture. Canada’s Taxes r high n their cost of living is also high. My husband paid  45% in income taxes n I paid 22% in income taxes out of my unemployment benefits in Europe. Ultimately I don’t have enough money to bring my kids to a private clinic when they had fever or when my wrist got infected. The state hospital turned us away. That’s the irony of a social welfare society, they cannot take care of everyone.  So this couple’s story is not all that rosy to high tax payers like us.

You want our tax rate to be super duper high? Of course it doesn't matter to you because you don't need to pay much income tax, if you pay any at all. So ultimately it still boils down to who pays for the free healthcare. Money doesn't drop from the sky.

[sgbuffett]

This is a comment (from youtube) from a Singaporean:


You want our tax rate to be super duper high? Of course it doesn't matter to you because you don't need to pay much income tax, if you pay any at all. So ultimately it still boils down to who pays for the free healthcare. Money doesn't drop from the sky.

I don't think the Finnish healtcare system is good it s due to poor management. 

As for taxes in Finland it pays for pension and child care...education, not just healthcare.

I don't know why you suddenly mentio Finland n out of  nowhere...there are systems better than us there are system worse than us.

I did not say Singapore system is the worst so by bringing up one bad system proves nothing.

Anyway back to Canadian healthcare. ....there are Singaporeans who migrate and  generally happy with  their healthcare system.

[sgbuffett]

you fcuking idiot

My as charged medical insurance covers pre and post outpatient expenses

It is related to your hospital treatment and there are limits in period and amount.

There are many things the medishield does not cover. The other week sent my neighbor to A&E ..he suddenly experience giddy-ness and had to stay for one day while they test him.

He just reviewed the bill it is $500+ medishield does not cover any of it.

[Blasterlord2]

I don't think the Finnish healtcare system is good it s due to poor management. 

As for taxes in Finland it pays for pension and child care...education, not just healthcare.

I don't know why you suddenly mentio Finland n out of  nowhere...there are systems better than us there are system worse than us.

I did not say Singapore system is the worst so by bringing up one bad system proves nothing.

Anyway back to Canadian healthcare. ....there are Singaporeans who migrate and  generally happy with  their healthcare system.

I'm not the one wo brought up the Finnish system, it's a comment from someone else in response to the video. But she did mention Canada because she's supposedly staying there now. Did you read how much is the tax rate in Canada?

I can tell you that there are Singaporeans who have migrated there and are unhappy with the healthcare system, so no need to cherry-pick the ones who have good comments.

Enough of other countries. If you want to suggest how Singapore should reserve more budget to healthcare then fine, but to condemn means testing is not. Means testing is a way to help the poor if they really cannot afford the cost. You cannot cite reasons such as loss of dignity etc. 

If you think that your dignity is worth more than your life, then it's too bad.

[sgbuffett]

I'm not the one wo brought up the Finnish system, it's a comment from someone else in response to the video. But she did mention Canada because she's supposedly staying there now. Did you read how much is the tax rate in Canada?

I can tell you that there are Singaporeans who have migrated there and are unhappy with the healthcare system, so no need to cherry-pick the ones who have good comments.

Enough of other countries. If you want to suggest how Singapore should reserve more budget to healthcare then fine, but to condemn means testing is not. Means testing is a way to help the poor if they really cannot afford the cost. You cannot cite reasons such as loss of dignity etc. 

If you think that your dignity is worth more than your life, then it's too bad.

We disagree. It's fine. I prefer a universal single payer system so that nobody sick needs to worry about money when they get sick.

Given the backdrop of Singapore having high iincome inequality and rising healthcare cost such a system would help mitigate some of these problems which are worsening.

Of course some will prefer the current system they are well covered within it ...that is also fine.

Eventually,  it will come down to the vote at elections. How different people are affected in different ways by a system will drive their decisions.

[sgbuffett]

There is one often cited disadvantage of taxes needing to go up to find a universal system in which nobody needs to worry about healthcare cost and affordability.

This is my thought on this.

If 5B is needed each year for healthcare.
1. This burden can be shared by everyone by progressive taxes.

2. We make the sick pay and concentrate the finamcial burden on them.

3. We run a mix system where the state pays some and the sick pays some.

While one may think the 3rd option is working for us, the rising medical cost and income inequality means there a bigger and bigger number getting sick feel high financial burden. Remember when a person falls ill he cannot work loses his income and now also has to worry about medical bills. 20yrs ago such bills are a few thousand now they go up to tens and often higher. If we argue amount is manageable and the sick people can afford this then ....why can't we fund this through taxes if it is manageable. There is a logic flaw....the amount is small when we ask if medical is affordable for the people....but when we ask for single.payer system suddenly it is unaffordable and taxes have to ramp up to astronomical rates....so which is it?

There is urgency to re examine the entire system because we have a greying population and rising number of elderly poor needing medical care. Costs is a big issue.

[Blasterlord2]

We disagree. It's fine. I prefer a universal single payer system so that nobody sick needs to worry about money when they get sick.

Given the backdrop of Singapore having high iincome inequality and rising healthcare cost such a system would help mitigate some of these problems which are worsening.

Of course some will prefer the current system they are well covered within it ...that is also fine.

Eventually,  it will come down to the vote at elections. How different people are affected in different ways by a system will drive their decisions.

Why would I not want a 'single payer system' like what you advocate? Of course I want but it cannot be a 'want' without a proposal of where the money is going to come from? If we merely just demand without proposal then we'll always be the senseless opposition that PAP so like to denounce at every opportunity.

Therefore my proposal is:
1. Cut defence budget.
2. Cut any unnecessary expenses such as mayors' pay.
3. Keep the cost of healthcare affordable but keeping tight checks on doctors' charges. This to me is most important because I know of many doctors always urging patients to go for unnecessary treatments. Define cost of each treatment and set an upper limit.
4. Give elderly above the age of 70 more subsidy, not just for the pioneer generation but for all future generations.