SG Talk

(09-01-2024, 10:17 AM)theold Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/j...ccusations

It is understandable that most westerners do not have a favourable opinion of Prabowo as he doesn't fit their "preferred" candidate, i.e. someone who is liberal on social policies, pro-western in outlook and most importantly, a leader whom they think can ally with them to take on China.

They had unrealistic expectations of Jokowi being someone like that, but got frustrated when it turned out otherwise. Now frontrunner Prabowo is everything they detest - ex-military personnel, a pragmatist who is not bound by ideology and also somewhat a nationalist who believes in Indonesia first policies.

It is important to note that this election isn't about Prabowo per se, it's more like a projection of the current consensus amongst both the elite and masses in Indonesia. Prabowo is sort of an embodiment of Indonesian political values and expectations of a leader now.

All the mainstream presidential candidates have more or less the same sort of political outlook although they vary on the details of domestic policies. IIRC one of them (think it's the ex-Jakarta governor) tried to pitch for a slightly western values-based ideology earlier but saw his numbers plummet and immediately went back to Indonesian mainstream.

US and European "values" simply have no currency in the rest of the world now and no amount of bitching and whining by the likes of Guardian will make any difference.

(09-01-2024, 10:17 AM)theold Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/j...ccusations

A leopard will never change is spots....Be warned.

(In 1998) While cracking down on anti-government demonstrations, the Suharto regime is trying to whip up hostility against the ethnic Chinese....government and military forces have directly organized anti-Chinese demonstrations. The human rights organization TAPOL recently reported the existence of a document written by Special Forces Commander Prabowo, Suharto’s son-in-law, calling for a campaign to blame both the International Monetary Fund and Chinese businessmen for the financial crisis.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1998/02/indo-f14.html

This guy you dun have to dig his past records. Just look at that face can tell he got a pai lang bin. Dun believe you can ask Bigiron to draw a few circles on his face and give you a character reading.      

(09-01-2024, 11:49 AM)Blin Wrote: [ -> ]USA Westgate trained General. Once elected see same or not.

Doesn't matter, most of the time it isn't about the individual anyway. 

There are no shortages of apparent ultra pro-western people doing a 180 degree turn the moment they get elected and sometimes, though much rarer these days, an anti-western guy going the other way round.

To know what the leader will likely do, it is much more useful to try and understand what the consensus amongst the elites and masses of the country is. If they conflict, usually the elite consensus takes precedence unless there is a major social upheaval or external disturbance like a war.

In the case of Indonesia, both the elites and masses are quite aligned and Prabowo and the other candidates all pander to the same train of thought as well.

How Prabowo or the other two contenders feel on a personal level is irrelevant from a macro point of view.

Indonesia can survive anyone they choose so long as he is removable and there is check and balance in the system...

Ultimately anyone can be over thrown by peaceful protests there and next person can takeover after fresh elections.

Don't end up like Thailand.