Vc very happy about vn's rise
(10-02-2023, 09:58 AM)debono Wrote: [ -> ]It is only economically viable to set up factories in Vietnam, bcos of the low cost of labour................ 
Not just low cost, but also plentiful labour and land space.
Also helps if you are setting up your business in a country where the society there is not picky about jobs for status. Compare and contrast to SG where society here treats anyone who's not a white collar CBD office monkey as second-class citizens.
(10-02-2023, 10:04 AM)Basic_Strategy Wrote: [ -> ]Not just low cost, but also plentiful labour and land space.
Also helps if you are setting up your business in a country where the society there is not picky about jobs for status. Compare and contrast to SG where society here treats anyone who's not a white collar CBD office monkey as second-class citizens.
Well said, I can identify with what you advocate.................
(10-02-2023, 10:06 AM)debono Wrote: [ -> ]Well said, I can identify with what you advocate.................
Not to say there are no issues dealing with Viets. They can be very mercenary, the management can be slave drivers, and they're basically Mainland China and the CCP in a Vietnamese ao dai instead of a Cheongsam.
BUT... the big difference is, at least they are willing and interested in learning from the West and improving themselves along Western lines. So in time worker labour right standards and business culture there can be improved.
(10-02-2023, 10:09 AM)Basic_Strategy Wrote: [ -> ]Not to say there are no issues dealing with Viets. They can be very mercenary, the management can be slave drivers, and they're basically Mainland China and the CCP in a Vietnamese ao dai instead of a Cheongsam.
BUT... the big difference is, at least they are willing and interested in learning from the West and improving themselves along Western lines. So in time worker labour right standards and business culture there can be improved.
Erm the reason why companies are going to Vietnam is because labor and land costs are lower and the reason why they are lower is because the Chinese are getting more and more picky about pay and working conditions (i.e. "learning from the West).
I would imagine in another 10-15 years the Vietnamese will start demanding better standards than the exploitative labor practices prevailing now. Factories will then move to even cheaper countries like Myanmar, Bangladesh etc. This is a very standard value add uppgrading cycle, China is like that and so will Vietnam be. If it doesn't happen this means that the country in question has screwed up and is stuck in the lowest rung of value add.
Labor rights and what you call business culture are the by products of enhanced productivity and wealth accumulation, it is a standard growing pain all countries go through when climbing the ladder.
The big unknown however is the acceleration of technological contributions to overall productivity, i.e. technology is increasing its weight against labour cost in determining productivity and should the balance be tipped one day, it is potentially possible for low end manufacturing activities to flow backwards to advanced countries with the technological grasp and infrastructure to make it happen.
(10-02-2023, 10:25 AM)maxsanic Wrote: [ -> ]Erm the reason why companies are going to Vietnam is because labor and land costs are lower and the reason why they are lower is because the Chinese are getting more and more picky about pay and working conditions (i.e. "learning from the West).
I would imagine in another 10-15 years the Vietnamese will start demanding better standards than the exploitative labor practices prevailing now. Factories will then move to even cheaper countries like Myanmar, Bangladesh etc. This is a very standard value add uppgrading cycle, China is like that and so will Vietnam be. If it doesn't happen this means that the country in question has screwed up and is stuck in the lowest rung of value add.
Labor rights and what you call business culture are the by products of enhanced productivity and wealth accumulation, it is a standard growing pain all countries go through when climbing the ladder.
The big unknown however is the acceleration of technological contributions to overall productivity, i.e. technology is increasing its weight against labour cost in determining productivity and should the balance be tipped one day, it is potentially possible for low end manufacturing activities to flow backwards to advanced countries with the technological grasp and infrastructure to make it happen.
Do you see countries like Myanmar or Bangladesh becoming more stable in the next 10-15 years?
I have full confidence Vietnam will be able to make the FDIs stick even as they move up the value-add ladder as you describe. It is true that Western businesses are pulling out of China for manufacturing because the Chinese are becoming more demanding with regards to labour rights and pay, but it was not like they weren't willing to negotiate and accommodate such demands. They had one foot out of the door of China, Xi Jinping pushed them out with the other over the past 3 years of the Covid pandemic and his deliberate ideologically-fuelled policy decision to decouple China from the West.
Vietnam has no such inclination. In fact they've shown themselves to be extremely pragmatic. Remember how hard they fought the US and its Asian allies like South Korea during the Vietnam War? Yet now decades after the war they're able and willing to move on from the past, shake hands with past enemies that they actually DO respect, and build a common future prosperity and progress together. Vietnam is the best example of a society that 敢爱敢恨不记仇.
(10-02-2023, 10:32 AM)Basic_Strategy Wrote: [ -> ]Do you see countries like Myanmar or Bangladesh becoming more stable in the next 10-15 years?
I have full confidence Vietnam will be able to make the FDIs stick even as they move up the value-add ladder as you describe. It is true that Western businesses are pulling out of China for manufacturing because the Chinese are becoming more demanding with regards to labour rights and pay, but it was not like they weren't willing to negotiate and accommodate such demands. They had one foot out of the door of China, Xi Jinping pushed them out with the other over the past 3 years of the Covid pandemic and his deliberate ideologically-fuelled policy decision to decouple China from the West.
Vietnam has no such inclination. In fact they've shown themselves to be extremely pragmatic. Remember how hard they fought the US and its Asian allies like South Korea during the Vietnam War? Yet now decades after the war they're able and willing to move on from the past, shake hands with past enemies that they actually DO respect, and build a common future prosperity and progress together. Vietnam is the best example of a society that 敢爱敢恨不记仇.
A well written essay of what is happening to Vietnam..................
(10-02-2023, 10:32 AM)Basic_Strategy Wrote: [ -> ]Do you see countries like Myanmar or Bangladesh becoming more stable in the next 10-15 years?
I have full confidence Vietnam will be able to make the FDIs stick even as they move up the value-add ladder as you describe. It is true that Western businesses are pulling out of China for manufacturing because the Chinese are becoming more demanding with regards to labour rights and pay, but it was not like they weren't willing to negotiate and accommodate such demands. They had one foot out of the door of China, Xi Jinping pushed them out with the other over the past 3 years of the Covid pandemic and his deliberate ideologically-fuelled policy decision to decouple China from the West.
Vietnam has no such inclination. In fact they've shown themselves to be extremely pragmatic. Remember how hard they fought the US and its Asian allies like South Korea during the Vietnam War? Yet now decades after the war they're able and willing to move on from the past, shake hands with past enemies that they actually DO respect, and build a common future prosperity and progress together. Vietnam is the best example of a society that 敢爱敢恨不记仇.
Let me know when Vietnam is rich. I see them 10x worst than Chinese. Good luck thinking they will be good lapdog.
Aaiya all those low-skilled low-paying low ses jobs, they shd take more to feed their poor families