SG Talk

China-made cars: The next big bang?

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America will find reason to ban them.
Just like TikTok.

Honda's boss is like the Asiaone reporter - like a frog living in a well for too long...Now the Jap realised how far they have fallen behind the Chinese EV makers.

https://paultan.org/2023/04/30/honda-ceo...tion-plan/

(30-04-2023, 06:47 PM)Alice Alicia Wrote: [ -> ]America will find reason to ban them.
Just like TikTok.

New US-led sanctions related to China car industry are already in the works, but I believe effect will not last long.
China took just 3 years (after the 2020 ASML litho machine export ban to China) to develop their own EUV light source.
Development of chemical for semicon chips used in cars will definitely take a much shorter time, especially when 28nm chips (non-EUV) will suffice. 

It is said China dominates 80% of the material in the world for making lithium batteries for EVs from Africa to South America.

battery electric looks like the choice of ev car. in reality a more viable solution is hydrogen fuel cell, when hydrogen is redily available. green or grey hydrogen can do.
in singapore keppel is trying out import of hydrogen. surely if they can also retail later then hydrogen fuel cell car/commercial vehicle will follow.

hydrogen fuel cell advantage is faster to transfer hydrogen to car then recharge battery. no need to carry heavy load of battery.

fuel cell conversion from chemical to electricity is about 60% efficient.

natural gas power plant chemical to electricity conversion efficiency about 44%.

electricity store in battery leak out over time. battery ability to store electricity is degraded over recharge cycle and how fast one recharge.
battery is heavy. battery disposal is a problem later.

most important. government not easy to tax electricity like petrol. while tax can be added to hydrogen just like petrol. so that country do not loose an important source of tax revenue.

(01-05-2023, 03:23 PM)lvlrsSTI Wrote: [ -> ]It is said China dominates 80% of the material in the world for making lithium batteries for EVs from Africa to South America.

Lithium-based battery will be passé soon. Chinese are moving beyond to other more easily available elements like sodium.
This will lead to cheaper batteries and hence more affordable EVs.

Now China is positioning itself to command the next big innovation in rechargeable batteries: replacing lithium with sodium, a far cheaper and more abundant material....


https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/12/busin...eries.html

(01-05-2023, 02:20 PM)Manthink Wrote: [ -> ]Honda's boss is like the Asiaone reporter - like a frog living in a well for too long...Now the Jap realised how far they have fallen behind the Chinese EV makers.

https://paultan.org/2023/04/30/honda-ceo...tion-plan/

Just ask BYD to make for them and put Honda logo in front and back.

(01-05-2023, 03:40 PM)sclim Wrote: [ -> ]battery electric looks like the choice of ev car.  in reality a more viable solution is hydrogen fuel cell, when hydrogen is redily available.  green or grey hydrogen can do.
in singapore keppel is trying out import of hydrogen. surely if they can also retail later then hydrogen fuel cell car/commercial vehicle will follow.hydrogen fuel cell advantage is faster to transfer hydrogen to car then recharge battery. no need to carry heavy load of battery. fuel cell conversion from chemical to electricity is about 60% efficient.
natural gas power plant chemical to electricity conversion efficiency about 44%.  electricity store in battery leak out over time. battery ability to store electricity is degraded over recharge cycle and how fast one recharge.battery is heavy. battery disposal is a problem later. most important. government not easy to tax electricity like petrol. while tax can be added to hydrogen just like petrol. so that country do not loose an important source of tax revenue.

Why worry for gov revenue when they proven to be very innovative when comes to getting sources of $  by simply passing some stupid laws and rules like the COE ? 

Sodium battery is a lot cheaper. Less efficient but suitable for Singapore.

(01-05-2023, 04:05 PM)dynamite Wrote: [ -> ]Just ask BYD to make for them and put Honda logo in front and back.

Or perhaps ask Geely to buy over Honda like they did with Volvo? 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-geely...TC20100802

(01-05-2023, 04:09 PM)dynamite Wrote: [ -> ]Sodium battery is a lot cheaper. Less efficient but suitable for Singapore.

That's the plan - small affordable EV that does not need long range (hence expensive) batteries. Average SG drivers cover max <40km per day..
Chinese makers like BYD are targeting mini-compact segments just launched in PRC market....suitable for urban-city commute.

BYD Seagull - base model comes with 30 kWh battery giving range up to 300 km.

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/04/byds-s...n-battery/

(01-05-2023, 03:40 PM)sclim Wrote: [ -> ]battery electric looks like the choice of ev car.  in reality a more viable solution is hydrogen fuel cell, when hydrogen is redily available.  green or grey hydrogen can do.
in singapore keppel is trying out import of hydrogen. surely if they can also retail later then hydrogen fuel cell car/commercial vehicle will follow.

hydrogen fuel cell advantage is faster to transfer hydrogen to car then recharge battery. no need to carry heavy load of battery.

fuel cell conversion from chemical to electricity is about 60% efficient.

natural gas power plant chemical to electricity conversion efficiency about 44%. 

electricity store in battery leak out over time. battery ability to store electricity is degraded over recharge cycle and how fast one recharge.
battery is heavy. battery disposal is a problem later.

most important. government not easy to tax electricity like petrol. while tax can be added to hydrogen just like petrol. so that country do not loose an important source of tax revenue.

Japenis tried for many years with hydrogen.

Singapore did set up two hydrogen refilling stations for cars, but eventually gave up and closed the stations!

CNA published this today...

JAPAN IS THE BIGGEST LOSER
Japan's share of car sales in China slumped to 18.5% in the first quarter, down from 24% in 2020...
"Japan is the biggest loser of the price war so far," said Bill Russo, founder and CEO of Automobility, a Shanghai-based consultancy.
"As EVs get more affordable, they become more attractive to the core buyers who have been resisting so far, the buyers of foreign brands. So, you can see the writing is on the wall."   Japanese automakers built their reputation on factors like durability, but the shift in China shows the draw of lower-priced electric cars and new offerings based on software, said Masatoshi Nishimoto, principal research analyst at S&P Global Mobility in Tokyo.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/business...is-3458741