SG Talk

Song Boh! 
Sg lacks of real engineers.

(02-07-2023, 10:53 AM)RiseofAsia Wrote: [ -> ]Song Boh! 
Sg lacks of real engineers.

Real reason is engineers are paid peanuts compared to those on the management path. As the saying goes, you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Who will be willing to put in some much effort if he sees that the reward he gets is so much less than people who only "talk".

ST Eng has a tradition of paying only their top management well but neglect the people below. They are only concerned with buying products and slapping their logo on the them, not with building up capabilities. If you want high end technologies you don't go to ST Eng.

This anti corruptiin system has been implemented since lky donkey years
Donkey see donkey do

(02-07-2023, 11:38 AM)Blasterlord2 Wrote: [ -> ]Real reason is engineers are paid peanuts compared to those on the management path. As the saying goes, you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Who will be willing to put in some much effort if he sees that the reward he gets is so much less than people who only "talk".ST Eng has a tradition of paying only their top management well but neglect the people below. They are only concerned with buying products and slapping their logo on the them, not with building up capabilities. If you want high end technologies you don't go to ST Eng.

Not really - ST has a lot of great engineering products in many fields

The decision to quit the project because of cost is red herring...S$150 million over the next 5/7 years is peanut in terms of self-driving development and investment.

the REAL reason, IMHO, is LTA found out it is cheaper to outsource bus services to contracted 3rd parties who will squeeze cost by hiring more FT drivers..

That is partly why private school bus coy struggling to find driver now - who will take over from this sector like Gov did with pre-school education ?

(02-07-2023, 12:25 PM)Manthink Wrote: [ -> ]Not really - ST has a lot of great engineering products in many fields

The decision to quit the project because of cost is red herring...S$150 million over the next 5/7 years is peanut in terms of self-driving development and investment.

the REAL reason, IMHO, is LTA found out it is cheaper to outsource bus services to contracted 3rd parties who will squeeze cost by hiring more FT drivers..

That is partly why private school bus coy struggling to find driver now - who will take over from this sector like Gov did with pre-school education ?

Their so-called great products are all purchased and then they put their labels on them. They dun have a viable R&D to do high end research.

Good thing they stopped torturing the bus.

Money down the drain

(02-07-2023, 01:32 PM)Blasterlord2 Wrote: [ -> ]Their so-called great products are all purchased and then they put their labels on them. They dun have a viable R&D to do high end research.

No so-called great products today is 100% completed without the help from someone's high end R&Ds.

For e..g

https://www.xda-developers.com/huawei-sa...-property/

(02-07-2023, 11:38 AM)Blasterlord2 Wrote: [ -> ]Real reason is engineers are paid peanuts compared to those on the management path. As the saying goes, you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Who will be willing to put in some much effort if he sees that the reward he gets is so much less than people who only "talk".

ST Eng has a tradition of paying only their top management well but neglect the people below. They are only concerned with buying products and slapping their logo on the them, not with building up capabilities. If you want high end technologies you don't go to ST Eng.

u are right 
few of my friends n relatives in IT N ENGRG quit st engrg last few yrs ago

Whereas PM lee few months back go China also try out china autonomous bus ??

next this Tharman also used to go china visit see their Automatic self pay store.

claim in SG will have but so far don't have.

Only so call " test run in Poly , Uni "

(02-07-2023, 03:16 PM)Manthink Wrote: [ -> ]No so-called great products today is 100% completed without the help from someone's high end R&Ds.

For e..g

https://www.xda-developers.com/huawei-sa...-property/

Of cos ST Eng will always need the help of other great companies but it will need to have its own niche capabilities too, which unfortunately, it does not have. Its only strength is that it's a TH company so it will always get govt's contracts.

Enough said. You just need to go to glassdoor to see what a shit company it is.

https://www.glassdoor.sg/Reviews/ST-Engi...-E8082.htm

(02-07-2023, 06:08 PM)Blasterlord2 Wrote: [ -> ]Of cos ST Eng will always need the help of other great companies but it will need to have its own niche capabilities too, which unfortunately, it does not have. Its only strength is that it's a TH company so it will always get govt's contracts.
Enough said. You just need to go to glassdoor to see what a shit company it is.
https://www.glassdoor.sg/Reviews/ST-Engi...-E8082.htm

Glassdoor says its CEO not bad with 70% approval while TH is a wing of Gov supporting a SE that plays critical role in SG economy

None of the above got to do R&D or nor ST products that you had complain about.

You worked with any of the ST subsidiary before ?

(02-07-2023, 06:41 PM)Manthink Wrote: [ -> ]Glassdoor says its CEO not bad with 70% approval while TH is a wing of Gov supporting a SE that plays critical role in SG economy

None of the above got to do R&D or nor ST products that you had complain about.

You worked with any of the ST subsidiary before ?

CEO not bad because he tried to change the culture but failed.

I dun work for ST but I provided my solutions to them before so I know they dun have much capability. You ask them to do maintenance work still can.

I have many friends who are still working there, and also many who have left.

(02-07-2023, 06:52 PM)Blasterlord2 Wrote: [ -> ]CEO not bad because he tried to change the culture but failed.
I dun work for ST but I provided my solutions to them before so I know they dun have much capability. You ask them to do maintenance work still can.
I have many friends who are still working there, and also many who have left.

So you work with ST as a subcontractor who is supposed to offer "solutions" to them ?

Should follow Putin way. KINZHAL missiles didn't work according to the specs.
Sack all the clowns or get them to fly out of windows.

(02-07-2023, 06:55 PM)Manthink Wrote: [ -> ]So you work with ST as a subcontractor who is supposed to offer "solutions" to them ?

I'll not offer any more info about myself other than to say that I know their operations well enough. It's up you to believe or not believe.

Why dun you tell me whether you have any affiliations with them to defend them so strenuously?

China already had such autonomous buses and taxis in operation.  

To say, we are spending money to develop such system is ridiculous.   

Just buy the product from China lah.  

.

Last time, ST Engineering also had a project to develop semiconductor when Ho JIn was CEO there.   


It was also closed finally.  


.

Right, no point reinventing the wheels since we can buy and use them

(02-07-2023, 07:24 PM)webinarian Wrote: [ -> ]China already had such autonomous buses and taxis in operation.  

To say, we are spending money to develop such system is ridiculous.   

Just buy the product from China lah.  

.

Agree. Chinese companies are already researching into autonomous vehicles more than half a decade ago and autonomous buses were already introduced in Tianjin 4 years ago.
So many patents would have been filed and they make it harder for latecomers to compete (just like China was late into the semicon industry).

And saw a video a few months ago showcasing a development lab in Alibaba.
They have more than 70% PhDs in their algorithm team and their focus was just autonomous parcel delivery!
Don't think ST Eng can match and sustain such a very technical team.

Tianjin 2019:

Right. To do automation, data sc, machine learning and etc, must hv bright ppl doing algorithm design and testings, not just coding which can be learned and done easily

(02-07-2023, 07:17 PM)Blasterlord2 Wrote: [ -> ]I'll not offer any more info about myself other than to say that I know their operations well enough. It's up you to believe or not believe. Why dun you tell me whether you have any affiliations with them to defend them so strenuously?

I know enuf of what is already publicly available - that ST is a giant SOE conglomerate into many businesses relating to tech and engineering.

The closest "affiliation" I had with ST is when I used their products like M16, SAR21, Ultimax100 etc + their vast range of ammo and mines during my NS time and visited their booth during many of their oversea exhibits...

(02-07-2023, 08:05 PM)WhatDoYouThink! Wrote: [ -> ]Right. To do automation, data sc, machine learning and etc, must hv bright ppl doing algorithm design and testings, not just coding which can be learned and done easily

There is an agreed global industrial standard on the type of "automation" one like to achieve in automotive vehicles.

The basics at L1 is what we get in most cars today from ACC to lane-keeping. The challenge grows exponentially as one moves up the level...with the top most that for-runners like Telsa cannot promise....Why ? Because L5 require much much more investment in infrastructure than just simply having "smarter" brains on the vehicle alone.

(02-07-2023, 07:24 PM)webinarian Wrote: [ -> ]China already had such autonomous buses and taxis in operation.  

To say, we are spending money to develop such system is ridiculous.   

Just buy the product from China lah.  

.

https://youtu.be/D3sCm1GGC5I

(02-07-2023, 11:38 AM)Blasterlord2 Wrote: [ -> ]Real reason is engineers are paid peanuts compared to those on the management path. As the saying goes, you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Who will be willing to put in some much effort if he sees that the reward he gets is so much less than people who only "talk".

ST Eng has a tradition of paying only their top management well but neglect the people below. They are only concerned with buying products and slapping their logo on the them, not with building up capabilities. If you want high end technologies you don't go to ST Eng.

ST does not produce vehicle, tel network system.
it is not economical to continue.                 

Money spent is not waste, as they should have at least basic
understanding or knows which portion is the most difficult.
They can now joint venture with few parties instead.

二毛们深居简出，不知外面世界千变万化，还在醉生梦死

Just curious when you all say ST Engineering it encompass their various subsidiaries like ST Aerospace ST Electronics ST Kinetics ST Marine?

Long long time ago I work in ST Electronics subsidiary? Agilis Communication think close shop liao. They do private projects but still main bulk projects are govt like dsta mindef etc. Now is 2023 not sure the percentage of private vs govt projects allocation. And yes they pay peanuts for engineer which is why I left and alot politics at higher level which filter down to us.

(02-07-2023, 09:59 PM)sgh Wrote: [ -> ]Just curious when you all say ST Engineering it encompass their various subsidiaries like ST Aerospace ST Electronics ST Kinetics ST Marine?
Long long time ago I work in ST Electronics subsidiary? Agilis Communication think close shop liao. They do private projects but still main bulk projects are govt like dsta mindef etc. Now is 2023 not sure the percentage of private vs govt projects allocation. And yes they pay peanuts for engineer which is why I left and alot politics at higher level which filter down to us.

Whenever there are links to national interest, there will always be politics in deciding how that organisation is run.
GovTec, DSTA etc are all the usual suspect involved in gov projects - So it is nothing unusual for those who seek better opportunities somewhere else where they feel their talent or opinions get respected...But then again, its subjective.

However, increasingly you will see more Gov projects opening up to the private sectors  not only makes economic sense, but tech business is cycle has become shorter and disruptive than in the pas decades.

(02-07-2023, 10:17 PM)Manthink Wrote: [ -> ]Whenever there are links to national interest, there will always be politics in deciding how that organisation is run.
GovTec, DSTA etc are all the usual suspect involved in gov projects - So it is nothing unusual for those who seek better opportunities somewhere else where they feel their talent or opinions get respected...But then again, its subjective.

However, increasingly you will see more Gov projects opening up to the private sectors  not only makes economic sense, but tech business is cycle has become shorter and disruptive than in the pas decades.

Thanks for update during my times GovTech not created yet. I was part of the pioneer team when dsta was born. It was a merger of sort with cso-mindef and sco-mindef into one. dso remain separate. How time flies.