[Lukongsimi]

Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath lah!  Do you obey the Lord or the Sabbath leh?

Sabbath is made for man n not man for the sabbath so what u think leh

[Ali Imran]

Sabbath is made for man n not man for the sabbath so what u think leh

Do you obey Jesus or the Sabbath?

Your answer will be Jesus but then, are you really obeying Jesus?

[pinkpanther]

Does Islam permit Muslims to lie?

[Lukongsimi]

Do you obey Jesus or the Sabbath?

Your answer will be Jesus but then, are you really obeying Jesus?

Do your religion teaches you to judge other religion n step under your feet?

[Ali Imran]

Does Islam permit Muslims to lie?

That depends. 

Are we permitted to lie to advance or propagate our religion? The answer is no.

[Ali Imran]

Do your religion teaches you to judge other religion n step under your feet?

Isn't it good to question your own faith? I'm just helping you do that.

[Lukongsimi]

Isn't it good to question your own faith? I'm just helping you do that.

U should be more worry on your own faith
A book that makes no sense,no saviour.

[pinkpanther]

That depends. 

Are we permitted to lie to advance or propagate our religion? The answer is no.

Under what circumstances can you lie?

[Ali Imran]

Under what circumstances can you lie?

Eg.
"Of course you don't look fat".

[pinkpanther]

That depends. 

Are we permitted to lie to advance or propagate our religion? The answer is no.

Good lie my friend!

There are several forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, the best known being taqiyya (the Shia name).  These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

[Ali Imran]

U should be more worry on your own faith
A book that makes no sense,no saviour.

If you have not read the book, you cannot say the book makes no sense. That won't be very ethical.

[Ali Imran]

Good lie my friend!

There are several forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, the best known being taqiyya (the Shia name).  These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

Who told you that?

[pinkpanther]

Eg.
"Of course you don't look fat".

Lying is definitely an art!

[pinkpanther]

Who told you that?

From the religion of peace 

[Ali Imran]

From the religion of peace 

So you're spreading lies about my religion, as usual.

[Lukongsimi]

If you have not read the book, you cannot say the book makes no sense. That won't be very ethical.

U watch Christian prince’s utube  u will know

[pinkpanther]

So you're spreading lies about my religion, as usual.

Sahih Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." In other words, lying is permissible when the end justifies the means



Sahih Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permitted in order to deceive an "enemy."  The Quran defines the 'enemy' as "disbelievers" (4:101).

[Ali Imran]

U watch Christian prince’s utube  u will know

Just be honest to yourself. If you have not read the book for yourself, you cannot say anything about that book.

[Lukongsimi]

Just be honest to yourself. If you have not read the book for yourself, you cannot say anything about that book.

CP showed the book line by line ..enough.

[Ali Imran]

Sahih Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." In other words, lying is permissible when the end justifies the means



Sahih Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permitted in order to deceive an "enemy."  The Quran defines the 'enemy' as "disbelievers" (4:101).

Ok cool.

Now show me where you got that information about taqiyya or whatever. None of that Hadith are saying that.

[Ali Imran]

CP showed the book line by line ..enough.

Just be honest with yourself.

[pinkpanther]

Ok cool.

Now show me where you got that information about taqiyya or whatever. None of that Hadith are saying that.

From Islamic Law:

Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...  (See the Permissible Lying section on the Sharia page for more)

"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie."

[Ali Imran]

From Islamic Law:

Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...  (See the Permissible Lying section on the Sharia page for more)

"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie."

Ok cool.

Now show me where it says I can lie to "advance Islam", as you put it.

[pinkpanther]

Ok cool.

Now show me where you got that information about taqiyya or whatever. None of that Hadith are saying that.

The Hadith makes it clear that Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them or protect themselves. There are several forms:

Maybe you can list some of them?  Taqiyya is one! Kitman is one! 2 more to go

[Ali Imran]

The Hadith makes it clear that Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them or protect themselves. There are several forms:

Maybe you can list some of them?  Taqiyya is one! Kitman is one! 2 more to go

Ok. 

Where does it say I can lie to "advance Islam"?

[pinkpanther]

Ok cool.

Now show me where it says I can lie to "advance Islam", as you put it.

These are taken from the words of Muslim scholars....not me hor! Are they spreading lies or me?

[pinkpanther]

Ok. 

Where does it say I can lie to "advance Islam"?

Quran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Quran (3:28) - This verse instructs believers not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel friendly.

[Ali Imran]

These are taken from the words of Muslim scholars....not me hor! Are they spreading lies or me?

I'm just asking you a question.

Show me any Hadith that says I can lie when I'm doing dakwah, or as you put it, "advance Islam".

[Ali Imran]

Quran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Quran (3:28) - This verse instructs believers not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel friendly.

Who told you that?

[pinkpanther]

I'm just asking you a question.

Show me any Hadith that says I can lie when I'm doing dakwah, or as you put it, "advance Islam".

Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true as it relates to Muslim identity (i.e whether one is a Muslim or what that means).  This is a Shiite term: the Sunni counterpart is Muda'rat.

Kitman - Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief."

Tawriya - Intentionally creating a false impression by saying something that is technically true, when knowing that the listener will interpret it in a different way.  This practice has a broader application than taqiyya.