Donald Trump's Deal With Putin Will Harm Ukraine and Allies: NATO Leader
#1

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-en...el-1983164
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#2

If I am the EU, will breakup with USA alliance. 
Join China in Defence and Economic development. 

China's market is the future and she can control Putin by withdrawal of money supply.

Once Russia is controlled, EU and China combine can be the biggest consumer market in the world. 
They can achieve breakthrough in technology to greater height than US.

Let Trump suck his thumb alone..🤣
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#3

(10-11-2024, 10:31 AM)moonrab Wrote:  If I am the EU, will breakup with USA alliance. 
Join China in Defence and Economic development. 

China's market is the future and she can control Putin by withdrawal of money supply.

Once Russia is controlled, EU and China combine can be the biggest consumer market in the world. 
They can achieve breakthrough in technology to greater height than US.

Let Trump suck his thumb alone..🤣

A bit farfetched, but wise idea.    Big Grin

 Thinking is difficult, that's why most people judge
                    Carl Jung
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#4

(10-11-2024, 10:35 AM)Huliwang Wrote:  A bit farfetched, but wise idea.    Big Grin

Must be creative mah..🤣
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#5

My qns to NATO countries, what is your end goal?

Keep pushing war.


Smile
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#6

(10-11-2024, 10:31 AM)moonrab Wrote:  If I am the EU, will breakup with USA alliance. 
Join China in Defence and Economic development. 

China's market is the future and she can control Putin by withdrawal of money supply.

Once Russia is controlled, EU and China combine can be the biggest consumer market in the world. 
They can achieve breakthrough in technology to greater height than US.

Let Trump suck his thumb alone..🤣

EU or NATO is full of Yes men to Uncle Sam. Even after Nord Stream pipeline line got sabotaged they all pretend they see nothing, don’t allow Russia join the joint investigation and point finger at Russia. My conclusion, Europe is a U.S. colony, none of the countries has sovereignty. Germany that lost the war 80 years ago is still under the U.S. occupation with dozen of US military bases all over the country.
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#7

maybe  with elon musk  creative ideas there will be a way out to end the war not pleasing evil putin
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#8

(10-11-2024, 10:31 AM)moonrab Wrote:  If I am the EU, will breakup with USA alliance. 
Join China in Defence and Economic development. 

China's market is the future and she can control Putin by withdrawal of money supply.

Once Russia is controlled, EU and China combine can be the biggest consumer market in the world. 
They can achieve breakthrough in technology to greater height than US.

Let Trump suck his thumb alone..🤣
Not even China can control Putin. China wil only add more strength to Russia and this is no doubt. China can never and wil never leave Russia in the lurk or despair.
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#9

(10-11-2024, 10:50 AM)lvlrsSTI Wrote:  EU or NATO is full of Yes men to Uncle Sam. Even after Nord Stream pipeline line got sabotaged they all pretend they see nothing, don’t allow Russia join the joint investigation and point finger at Russia. My conclusion, Europe is a U.S. colony, none of the countries has sovereignty. Germany that lost the war 80 years ago is still under the U.S. occupation with dozen of US military bases all over the country.

When Trump leans his weight towards Putin, let Ukraine goes down the drain. 
EU's security future will not be safe anymore. 

Trump is all out to get China at EU expense. I think the European is not so stupid..🤭

The choice is in their hands.
A mistake similar to WW2, letting Hitler with a free play in Poland, destroyed the whole of Europe. 

China is a safer bet imo..🥰
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#10

(10-11-2024, 11:03 AM)Gemstar Wrote:  Not even China can control Putin. China wil only add more strength to Russia and this is no doubt. China can never and wil never leave Russia in the lurk.

Because of Russia, China lost many lands. 
And stopped the invasion of Taiwan over the Korean war. Which was triggered by Russia and NK initially. 

If MAO never support Russia request to fight in the Korean war, probably today's Taiwan is already another province. 🤣
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#11

(10-11-2024, 10:50 AM)lvlrsSTI Wrote:  EU or NATO is full of Yes men to Uncle Sam. Even after Nord Stream pipeline line got sabotaged they all pretend they see nothing, don’t allow Russia join the joint investigation and point finger at Russia. My conclusion, Europe is a U.S. colony, none of the countries has sovereignty. Germany that lost the war 80 years ago is still under the U.S. occupation with dozen of US military bases all over the country.
With the combination of NATO and US can only teach and discipline Russia against invasion of smaller Europe states. Putin hv ambitions to create another Soviet Union.
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#12

(10-11-2024, 11:03 AM)moonrab Wrote:  When Trump leans his weight towards Putin, let Ukraine goes down the drain. 
EU's security future will not be safe anymore. 

Trump is all out to get China at EU expense. I think the European is not so stupid..🤭

The choice is in their hands.
A mistake similar to WW2, letting Hitler with a free play in Poland, destroyed the whole of Europe. 

China is a safer bet imo..🥰

Trump will make peace in Europe to let Putin get Eastern Ukraine, block Ukraine joining the NATO, as a result Russia will no longer under the security threat from NATO expansion to the east. On the other hand Trump will ask NATO countries to contribute 2% GDP for security instead of the U.S. covering all the costs. So Russia will be stabilised and European nations will not have to worry about Russian invasion. 

Trump is a peace loving businessman who hates wars, why do you call him Hitler?
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#13

(10-11-2024, 11:13 AM)lvlrsSTI Wrote:  Trump will make peace in Europe to let Putin get Eastern Ukraine, block Ukraine joining the NATO, as a result Russia will no longer under the security threat from NATO expansion to the east. On the other hand Trump will ask NATO countries to contribute 2% GDP for security instead of the U.S. covering all the costs. So Russia will be stabilised and European nations will not have to worry about Russian invasion. 

Trump is a peace loving businessman who hates wars, why do you call him Hitler?

Firstly this Nato threat is totally no logic.

Finland, a neighboring country to Russia with a shared border of thousands of kilometers, is already a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO).

Shouldn't Russia feel under security threat, similar reason for Ukraine? 
Will Russia invade Finland, a member of NATO, in the coming future? 
And Trump will again let Putin conquer 20% of Finland as a security buffer zone? And block Finland from Nato membership? ..
For the sake of peace..🤣

Such kind of one sided loving businessman deal is truly unbelievable. 
Unless the European is stupid, what can we say?..🤭
Trump is a profiteering businessman, not a good trustable ally. In business, you play out one another to grow bigger and stronger.
Bad for a nation geopolitical alliance strategy.

Oh Hitler reference is for Putin. Not Trump 😄
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#14

(10-11-2024, 11:08 AM)Gemstar Wrote:  With the combination of NATO and US can only teach and discipline Russia against invasion of smaller Europe states. Putin hv ambitions to create another Soviet Union.

Putin has ambition however Ukraine war shows how weak Russia’s military capability is now. For now Putin is satisfied with annexation of Eastern Ukraine Russian speaking regions, Trump will negotiate with Putin to make sure Russia will not invade rest of Ukraine and other parts of NATO countries after a peace deal is sealed with Ukraine 

NATO was created by the U.S., all the countries under NATO will follow what Uncle Sam tells them to do…and they will be safe as long as they contribute 2% of their GDP to keep NATO alive.

From Trump’s perspective Ukraine War is wasting tons of U.S. taxpayers money and nothing gets achieved in the end. It is a black hole. Biden fought the war to counter Russia based on Democrats’ ideology. Trump as a businessman he will put a stop on huge spending (bleeding) on Ukraine War and force NATO countries to contribute money to lower the U.S. burden in NATO. Trump doesn’t care about ideology, he only wants to make money.
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#15

(10-11-2024, 11:07 AM)moonrab Wrote:  Because of Russia, China lost many lands. 
And stopped the invasion of Taiwan over the Korean war. Which was triggered by Russia and NK initially. 

If MAO never support Russia request to fight in the Korean war, probably today's Taiwan is already another province. 🤣

Your views are not inline with reality. 

Then mCn navy start from kosong as Nationalist take all meaningful Navy ships away in 1949.
To win without any help then is not possible. 
Kor peninsular is border by land. It is way easier attack mCn from land and to fly bombs from Seoul to Beijing take shorter time. 
 
Today Ru, is still no.1 nuclear stockpile. That is why Nalliance do not opening fight with them. 
And with Nalliance leaders already expressed desire to intervene in Tw matters and expand its influence to Asia.
There is no stronger reason for Cn do more than 140 countries that do not sanction on Ru. 

If cannot pressure Cn they should able to pressure 130+ countries easily but reality is not. 

Nevertheless quite sure 130 countries do support Ukr peace through neutrality.
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#16

(10-11-2024, 11:22 AM)moonrab Wrote:  Firstly this Nato threat is totally no logic.

Finland, a neighboring country to Russia with a shared border of thousands of kilometers, is already a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO).

Shouldn't Russia feel under security threat, similar reason for Ukraine? 
Will Russia invade Finland, a member of NATO, in the coming future? 
And Trump will again let Putin conquer 20% of Finland as a security buffer zone? And block Finland from Nato membership? ..
For the sake of peace..🤣

Such kind of one sided loving businessman deal is truly unbelievable. 
Unless the European is stupid, what can we say?..🤭

Oh Hitler reference is for Putin. Not Trump 😄

NATO expansion to the east is real threat to Russia, it is part of the U.S. strategy to isolate Russia after the collapse of Soviet Union, which is against Putin’s dream of making Russia Great Again. After the Cold War Russia  disbanded Warsaw Pact countries but the U.S. not only doesn’t disband NATO but expand it further to Eastern Europe, a dozen of Eastern European countries joined NATO after the Cold War, and Ukraine also wants to join.


[Image: IMG-7702.webp]



Two years before the war in Ukraine the U.S. started bringing Ukrainian troops to the U.S. for military training to get ready for the upcoming war and Ukraine wanted to join NATO, which Russia will never allow. However after the war started Finland also joined NATO, which was unexpected. Unlike Finland Ukraine used to be part of Soviet Union and is closely related to Russia in many ways. It is one of the last few former Eastern European countries that is not part of NATO Putin will not let go with it without fighting a nuclear war with NATO.

Europeans are truly stupid, they not only don’t have own armies but also no independent foreign policies, they follow the U.S. foreign policies and put the U.S. national interests above their own.
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#17

(10-11-2024, 11:13 AM)lvlrsSTI Wrote:  Trump will make peace in Europe to let Putin get Eastern Ukraine, block Ukraine joining the NATO, as a result Russia will no longer under the security threat from NATO expansion to the east. On the other hand Trump will ask NATO countries to contribute 2% GDP for security instead of the U.S. covering all the costs. So Russia will be stabilised and European nations will not have to worry about Russian invasion. 

Trump is a peace loving businessman who hates wars, why do you call him Hitler?
Putin is truly a Hitler in the indirect sense. Even though blocking Ukraine from joining NATO, Putin hv embedded ambitions to annex and invade other smaller Europe countries. We hv heard how he threaten Finland and Sweden. Never ever trust a rogue and tyrant like Putin, who is hunger for more lands.
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#18

(10-11-2024, 11:43 AM)watchfirst9 Wrote:  Your views are not inline with reality. 

Then mCn navy start from kosong as Nationalist take all meaningful Navy ships away in 1949.
To win without any help then is not possible. 
Kor peninsular is border by land. It is way easier attack mCn from land and to fly bombs from Seoul to Beijing take shorter time. 
 
Today Ru, is still no.1 nuclear stockpile. That is why Nalliance do not opening fight with them. 
And with Nalliance leaders already expressed desire to intervene in Tw matters and expand its influence to Asia.
There is no stronger reason for Cn do more than 140 countries that do not sanction on Ru. 

If cannot pressure Cn they should able to pressure 130+ countries easily but reality is not. 

Nevertheless quite sure 130 countries do support Ukr peace through neutrality.


As revealed by declassified Russian archives, it was Stalin who, by offering Kim Il Sung in late January 1950 the “green light” to attack the South, was ultimately responsible for the outbreak of the war. Why did Stalin do so? Opinions of scholars differ.

Was this solely because of Dean Acheson’s 12 January 1950 speech excluding Korea from US western Pacific defense perimeter?  Or was this just because Stalin intended to bog down the United State in a war quagmire in East Asia, while spreading the Chinese Communist experience of seizing political power via armed struggles to other parts of East Asia? If indeed the above were all the reasons, why did Stalin, in late January 1950, suddenly abandon Moscow’s backing of the Chinese Communist plan of “liberating Taiwan,” which he already was prepared to support? And why did he inspire Kim to launch the war in Korea in such a hurry?

To answer these questions, we must remember that Stalin made decisions always to serve the Soviet Union's strategic interests. He would never make a decision solely to promote China’s interest or to help North Korea.

The key, in my opinion, lay in Lüshun (Port Arthur) and the China Eastern Railway (CER). Both were of critical importance for the Soviet Union’s access to the Pacific Ocean, a consideration that had long occupied a central position in Russian and Soviet security strategies in the Far East.

Thus it is important to note that Stalin endorsed Kim’s war plan in the middle of Mao’s visit to Moscow. At the top of Mao’s wish list for his Soviet visit was to sign a new Sino-Soviet treaty of alliance, which, Mao hoped, would also allow China to reclaim its full sovereignty over Lüshun and CER.
position in Russian and Soviet security strategies in the Far East.

Thus it is important to note that Stalin endorsed Kim’s war plan in the middle of Mao’s visit to Moscow. 

At the top of Mao’s wish list for his Soviet visit was to sign a new Sino-Soviet treaty of alliance, which, Mao hoped, would also allow China to reclaim its full sovereignty over Lüshun and CER.

Upon Mao’s arrival in Moscow, Stalin initially showed no interest in signing a new treaty with China, in part because he feared that this would deprive Moscow of the privileges to use Lüshun and CER. In early January 1950, Stalin yielded to Mao’s persistent push and agreed to sign a new treaty. By late January, the negotiations for the details of the treaty had reached a crucial stage. Stalin’s lieutenants, on January 26, proposed signing the treaty while keeping Soviet privileges of accessing Lüshun and CER, which Mao rejected immediately. As a compromise, Zhou Enlai proposed that China would reclaim Lüshun and CER in three years after treaty’s signing.

On January 28, Moscow accepted the Chinese proposal “in principle,” but added a new clause: the Soviet Union might share the use of Lüshun and CER if either China or the Soviet Union was involved in a war in Asia. The Chinese agreed to this clause.

So, if a war occurred in East Asia, the Soviets would continuously be able to use both Lüshun and CER. When the Korean War broke out, the Soviets indeed kept the rights to use Lüshun. Stalin got what he wanted.

This, in my opinion, was the most important reason why Stalin endorsed Kim’s plan to attack the South on January 30, 1950. This, most likely, would cause a war to occur in the Far East.
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#19

Aiya … NATO is not in any position to nego or bargain … if Trumpet stop supporting NATO … NATO is really talk only

KTV妹妹说,香港人无义,台湾人无情,新加坂人无智 Big Grin
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#20

The guy is Putin's puppet...what do you expect from him?

For 4 yrs he refuse to contain Putin that is why Putin became so bold to invade Ukraine

I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
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#21

(10-11-2024, 01:48 PM)sgbuffett Wrote:  The guy is Putin's puppet...what do you expect from him?

For 4 yrs he refuse to contain Putin that is why Putin became so bold to invade Ukraine
Well said. Trump loves to blow trumpet.
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#22

(10-11-2024, 01:36 PM)moonrab Wrote:  As revealed by declassified Russian archives, it was Stalin who, by offering Kim Il Sung in late January 1950 the “green light” to attack the South, was ultimately responsible for the outbreak of the war. Why did Stalin do so? Opinions of scholars differ.
Was this solely because of Dean Acheson’s 12 January 1950 speech excluding Korea from US western Pacific defense perimeter?  Or was this just because Stalin intended to bog down the United State in a war quagmire in East Asia, while spreading the Chinese Communist experience of seizing political power via armed struggles to other parts of East Asia? If indeed the above were all the reasons, why did Stalin, in late January 1950, suddenly abandon Moscow’s backing of the Chinese Communist plan of “liberating Taiwan,” which he already was prepared to support? And why did he inspire Kim to launch the war in Korea in such a hurry?
To answer these questions, we must remember that Stalin made decisions always to serve the Soviet Union's strategic interests. He would never make a decision solely to promote China’s interest or to help North Korea.
The key, in my opinion, lay in Lüshun (Port Arthur) and the China Eastern Railway (CER). Both were of critical importance for the Soviet Union’s access to the Pacific Ocean, a consideration that had long occupied a central position in Russian and Soviet security strategies in the Far East.
Thus it is important to note that Stalin endorsed Kim’s war plan in the middle of Mao’s visit to Moscow. At the top of Mao’s wish list for his Soviet visit was to sign a new Sino-Soviet treaty of alliance, which, Mao hoped, would also allow China to reclaim its full sovereignty over Lüshun and CER.
position in Russian and Soviet security strategies in the Far East.
Thus it is important to note that Stalin endorsed Kim’s war plan in the middle of Mao’s visit to Moscow. 
At the top of Mao’s wish list for his Soviet visit was to sign a new Sino-Soviet treaty of alliance, which, Mao hoped, would also allow China to reclaim its full sovereignty over Lüshun and CER.
Upon Mao’s arrival in Moscow, Stalin initially showed no interest in signing a new treaty with China, in part because he feared that this would deprive Moscow of the privileges to use Lüshun and CER. In early January 1950, Stalin yielded to Mao’s persistent push and agreed to sign a new treaty. By late January, the negotiations for the details of the treaty had reached a crucial stage. Stalin’s lieutenants, on January 26, proposed signing the treaty while keeping Soviet privileges of accessing Lüshun and CER, which Mao rejected immediately. As a compromise, Zhou Enlai proposed that China would reclaim Lüshun and CER in three years after treaty’s signing.
On January 28, Moscow accepted the Chinese proposal “in principle,” but added a new clause: the Soviet Union might share the use of Lüshun and CER if either China or the Soviet Union was involved in a war in Asia. The Chinese agreed to this clause.
So, if a war occurred in East Asia, the Soviets would continuously be able to use both Lüshun and CER. When the Korean War broke out, the Soviets indeed kept the rights to use Lüshun. Stalin got what he wanted.
This, in my opinion, was the most important reason why Stalin endorsed Kim’s plan to attack the South on January 30, 1950. This, most likely, would cause a war to occur in the Far East.

Can agree N Kor make the move first but it is consider civil war.  

From other perspective,  
"his forces push towards the Chinese border, despite warnings from the UN and allies to show restraint…"
https://www.downelink.com/macarthur-as-p...othetical/

threat is perceived by different country is different. 

Foremost Ukr must become neutral and the possibility of Ukr join Nalliance is gone. 
As everyone knows D T want to friend friend with V P. 
The best way out is for 4 states become like Kosovo model, cannot join UN or merge with Albania, remain in Serbia.
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#23

(10-11-2024, 04:26 PM)watchfirst9 Wrote:  Can agree N Kor make the move first but it is consider civil war.  

From other perspective,  
"his forces push towards the Chinese border, despite warnings from the UN and allies to show restraint…"
https://www.downelink.com/macarthur-as-p...othetical/

threat is perceived by different country is different. 

Foremost Ukr must become neutral and the possibility of Ukr join Nalliance is gone. 
As everyone knows D T want to friend friend with V P. 
The best way out is for 4 states become like Kosovo model, cannot join UN or merge with Albania, remain in Serbia.

Korean war was possible only after Stalin gave green light to Kim.
That's the gist of it. 
The Chinese never trusted the Russian but being swayed into the war under no choice circumstance.

Today's Russian also started the Ukraine war out of their own agenda. 
Similar to the past, brought NK into it. And indirectly force China to be involve.

History showing Russia's similar tactical behavioral in war triggered by them. Xi is not stupid..😉
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#24

(10-11-2024, 04:35 PM)moonrab Wrote:  Korean war was possible only after Stalin gave green light to Kim.
That's the gist of it. 
The Chinese never trusted the Russian but being swayed into the war under no choice circumstance.

Today's Russian also started the Ukraine war out of their own agenda. 
Similar to the past, brought NK into it. And indirectly force China to be involve.

History showing Russia's similar tactical behavioral in war triggered by them. Xi is not stupid..😉

You are entitled to your view.

While I remain with 120 countries that do support Ukr be neutral.
A choice Zlenski abort in the third month of the war. 
he will be condemned by generations of Ukrian that ruin Ukr.
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