[Bigiron]

Why China's C919 is flying while Mitsubishi's SpaceJet isn't 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Why-Chin...eJet-isn-t

[Basic_Strategy]

Flying so what, no international buyers interested. This plane is only of interest to Chinese airlines, who will still prefer to buy tried and tested Airbus or Boeing jets over their own domestic Made In China jets.

[WhatDoYouThink!]

If c919 cannot fly, ermaos sure laugh until rolling on the floor.

[maxsanic]

Why China's C919 is flying while Mitsubishi's SpaceJet isn't 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Why-Chin...eJet-isn-t

The main difference as I see it is these planes are not really competing with fellow plane manufacturers like Airbus and Boeing, it's more like a competition in ecosystem. It's the same reason why Windows and now Android still maintain their near monopoly despite there being technically better alternatives.

US and Europe will never allow either C919 or SpaceJet to participate in any of their routes and if they do, there are so many ways they can create obstacles when the time comes for these new entrants to set up their upstream and downstream supply chain and aftersales services.

The only way to break that is like what Apple did, i.e. create an entirely new ecosystem of your own, not just create another plane. Herein lies the difference between C919 and SpaceJet. To start off, China has the size to stimulate domestic demand to first break through the minimum numbers required to achieve economies of scale. Secondly it has a far more integrated and full suite of manufacturing / supply chain capabilities compared to Japan to create a new supply chain ecosystem.

Last but not least, China has political and economic clout that Japan does not have to push through regulatory and financial hurdles outside of US and Europe. The C919 can compete in third world markets such as South America, Africa and most of Asia, the SpaceJet never stood a chance in these markets and have to compete head on in US and Europe while its domestic market is too small to reach economies of scale.

SpaceJet's problems are very similar to Russia's Sukhoi or Topelov, both have the technical capability to design and manufacture a commercial plane, but otherwise lack the ability to create an ecosystem from scratch.

[Niubee]

The main difference as I see it is these planes are not really competing with fellow plane manufacturers like Airbus and Boeing, it's more like a competition in ecosystem. It's the same reason why Windows and now Android still maintain their near monopoly despite there being technically better alternatives.

US and Europe will never allow either C919 or SpaceJet to participate in any of their routes and if they do, there are so many ways they can create obstacles when the time comes for these new entrants to set up their upstream and downstream supply chain and aftersales services.

The only way to break that is like what Apple did, i.e. create an entirely new ecosystem of your own, not just create another plane. Herein lies the difference between C919 and SpaceJet. To start off, China has the size to stimulate domestic demand to first break through the minimum numbers required to achieve economies of scale. Secondly it has a far more integrated and full suite of manufacturing / supply chain capabilities compared to Japan to create a new supply chain ecosystem.

Last but not least, China has political and economic clout that Japan does not have to push through regulatory and financial hurdles outside of US and Europe. The C919 can compete in third world markets such as South America, Africa and most of Asia, the SpaceJet never stood a chance in these markets and have to compete head on in US and Europe while its domestic market is too small to reach economies of scale.

SpaceJet's problems are very similar to Russia's Sukhoi or Topelov, both have the technical capability to design and manufacture a commercial plane, but otherwise lack the ability to create an ecosystem from scratch.

Your reasoning are more sound than Basic_Strategy. He is a anti China

[RiseofAsia]

If c919 cannot fly, ermaos sure laugh until rolling on the floor.

China is cooperating with France in Aerospace.
They will makan Boeing pie.

[RiseofAsia]

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/press...artnership

[RiseofAsia]

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202304/1...b9ca4.html

[watchfirst9]

The main difference as I see it is these planes are not really competing with fellow plane manufacturers like Airbus and Boeing, it's more like a competition in ecosystem. It's the same reason why Windows and now Android still maintain their near monopoly despite there being technically better alternatives.

US and Europe will never allow either C919 or SpaceJet to participate in any of their routes and if they do, there are so many ways they can create obstacles when the time comes for these new entrants to set up their upstream and downstream supply chain and aftersales services.

The only way to break that is like what Apple did, i.e. create an entirely new ecosystem of your own, not just create another plane. Herein lies the difference between C919 and SpaceJet. To start off, China has the size to stimulate domestic demand to first break through the minimum numbers required to achieve economies of scale. Secondly it has a far more integrated and full suite of manufacturing / supply chain capabilities compared to Japan to create a new supply chain ecosystem.

Last but not least, China has political and economic clout that Japan does not have to push through regulatory and financial hurdles outside of US and Europe. The C919 can compete in third world markets such as South America, Africa and most of Asia, the SpaceJet never stood a chance in these markets and have to compete head on in US and Europe while its domestic market is too small to reach economies of scale.

SpaceJet's problems are very similar to Russia's Sukhoi or Topelov, both have the technical capability to design and manufacture a commercial plane, but otherwise lack the ability to create an ecosystem from scratch.

One of the reason Japan GDP per capita unable to go up. They still struggle despite another 
player Canada Bombardier already exit commercial plane to focus private jets
https://globalnews.ca/news/7012183/bomba...et-sector/

The west is still leading as C919 still need some critical external components from the west to meet the regulatory 
requirement to flying outside. Although US EU banned it from flying there, both US and German rental airlines brought 
it. Probably to be lease to third world market. 
So China will need to be realistic its goal, as other example Russia Sukhoi Superjet stay internal market
Brazil EMBRAER has some success outside but remain relative small.

[maxsanic]

One of the reason Japan GDP per capita unable to go up. They still struggle despite another 
player Canada Bombardier already exit commercial plane to focus private jets
https://globalnews.ca/news/7012183/bomba...et-sector/

The west is still leading as C919 still need some critical external components from the west to meet the regulatory 
requirement to flying outside. Although US EU banned it from flying there, both US and German rental airlines brought 
it. Probably to be lease to third world market. 
So China will need to be realistic its goal, as other example Russia Sukhoi Superjet stay internal market
Brazil EMBRAER has some success outside but remain relative small.

I think we need to be careful when we say "outside", there is a tendency to think "the world" comprises of EU and US. While that may be true as far as aviation safety standards are concerned in the past, this is slowly changing already. In the past many countries outside US and EU take reference from FAA, but are otherwise not bound legally to follow the decisions of the FAA or EASA.

This presents opportunities for COMAC to seek certification from most of the countries in the word which they are in a far better position to do compared to the SpaceJet due to Japan's limited political and economic clout in the world.

I would say COMAC's goals are very realistic and they have certainly learned from the past mistakes of the ARJ21 (too much time and effort wasted on trying to seek certification from the FAA and EASA). From what I read, their goal so far is to build up the C919's domestic market and at the same time try to get the plane certified in as many non-US and EU countries as possible through mutual recognition led by CAAC with counterparts in developing countries.

In terms of domestication of key parts unfortunately that is something that they will have to slowly work on. So far their progress has been impressive hitting 50+% domestication within a short period. I believe the most important engines are currently in prototyping and trial testing phase, so hopefully the engine can be domesticated in 10 years as well. Not sure about the other two key sub-system which are onboard avionics and braking system though...