[Ali Imran]

U 2 start n provoke first mah

You sure?

[Lukongsimi]

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was a subject I heard about long long ago.

If you have received Christ, the Holy Spirit indwells you.  The new man cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit.  When I say "cannot", I don't mean you are not allowed to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, but rather, it is not the new man's nature at all to do such a thing.

Hope had made fun of the Holy Spirit in the other thread. He did that because he did not believe that there was a Holy Spirit.  I squirmed because I believe in the Holy Spirit.  Hope is not the first and will not be the last who blasphemed the Holy Spirit.  Millions and millions of men and women, now I dead or still alive, had done that before.

Suppose Satan says to a man, Christians say that you must accept Christ right?  And the man answers, right.  After that, you will be reconciled with God right?  Right.  And if the old man in you sins, you can ask God for forgiveness now, right?  Right. But if you've insulted the Holy Spirit, and made fun of Him, that sin cannot be forgiven right?  Right.  And you did insult the Holy Spirit, true or not?  True.  So what's the point of accepting the Gospel of Jesus Christ?  That sin cannot be forgiven.   Agree?  Agree.  (And that's what Satan wants us to believe)

Since it’s written in the bible, in the Koran or not,not sure 
Hope n Ali should know.

Humans easy to sin since the flesh is weak, the  spirit is willing.

[Lukongsimi]

You sure?

Don’t pretend 😊

[Ali Imran]

Don’t pretend 😊

Maybe you didn't notice or pretend not to notice.

[Oyk]

Is that just? One man made a mistake and we all bear the guilt? Whose idea is that? Certainly not the biblical prophets. None of them taught their people that. As a matter of fact, Ezekiel taught his people the direct opposite, that the son shall not bear the guilt of the father. So how come you believe the opposite of what Ezekiel taught?

Furthermore, there is another problem with that theology. You said Jesus already paid for the sin of Adam. But the punishment is still ongoing. Men must continue earning a living, "toil the earth"  And what about Eve? How come women are still being punished for that original sin today?

This is why you can never understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ unless the Holy Spirit convicts you and becomes your teacher.  I can repeat whatever I wrote, and you would still not get it.

Nevertheless, let me continue a bit...if you sped, and are fined $500, can your father settle it for you?  If you only want the offender to pay the fine, then it has to be you.  If you have no money?  Then it's jail in lieu of paying the fine.  Your father does not want his son to go to jail.  He pays the fine so that you can be free.  The concept of punishment is in your argument, the concept of Love is in mine.

John 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[Lukongsimi]

Maybe you didn't notice or pretend not to notice.

U mean see no evil do no evil.

[Oyk]

Since it’s written in the bible, in the Koran or not,not sure 
Hope n Ali should know.

Humans easy to sin since the flesh is weak, the  spirit is willing.

Hope and Abdul don't even believe there's such a Person as the Holy Spirit, so your question to them is moot.  Also, I don't quote another Book when talking about Christianity.  I would not support any of my arguments by saying, ah! even the Quran says so, so it must be true!

Only unbelievers are capable of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Once you have accepted Christ, the new man in you in which the Holy Spirt itself indwells can never...it is impossible to...blaspheme the Holy Spirit.  The new man will not ever sin against God.  The old man however will continue to sin.

If a person rejects the Gospel, he will mock us and even make fun of God.  The last one is blasphemy.  Blasphemy and the Rejection of the Gospel are somewhat related.  A person blasphemes because he does not have Christ in him.  Without Christ, he is not saved (or forgiven).  A person who has Christ in him will not blaspheme God, no matter if it is the Father, Son or Holy Spirit.

[Lukongsimi]

Hope and Abdul don't even believe there's such a Person as the Holy Spirit, so your question to them is moot.  Also, I don't quote another Book when talking about Christianity.  I would not support any of my arguments by saying, ah! even the Quran says so, so it must be true!

Only unbelievers are capable of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Once you have accepted Christ, the new man in you in which the Holy Spirt itself indwells can never...it is impossible to...blaspheme the Holy Spirit.  The new man will not ever sin against God.  The old man however will continue to sin.

If a person rejects the Gospel, he will mock us and even make fun of God.  The last one is blasphemy.  Blasphemy and the Rejection of the Gospel are somewhat related.  A person blasphemes because he does not have Christ in him.  Without Christ, he is not saved (or forgiven).  A person who has Christ in him will not blaspheme God, no matter if it is the Father, Son or Holy Spirit.

They don’t believe Christ is the only way to salvation 
Their jibril is who?

[Oyk]

Why you never say the same about your two friends?

U 2 start n provoke first mah

Actually, what Lksm said is true.

If you are a Muslim, and come here to pretend to be asking to have an intellectual discourse with us, but mock and taunt, and even insult members by saying "You don't even know your Bible!  I know the Bible better than you!", what do you want us to do? 

You are not our church pastor reprimanding us for not reading the Bible.  You are a Muslim who from the outset said "I don't believe your Bible", but still use it to play with us while leading us to say that Paul was a false apostle of Jesus Christ.

You know what you have been doing, why still want to deny?

Then, when Pink c/p the Hadiths, you say he disrespected your prophet.  We can also say you disrespected the apostle Paul.  You quote the Bible and say, "All these that I said are from your own Bible!" Pink also told Hope the same thing.  All that he quoted are from your own Hadiths.  And you boycott Pink for no valid reason other than because you don't like what he quoted.

[Ali Imran]

This is why you can never understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ unless the Holy Spirit convicts you and becomes your teacher.  I can repeat whatever I wrote, and you would still not get it.

Nevertheless, let me continue a bit...if you sped, and are fined $500, can your father settle it for you?  If you only want the offender to pay the fine, then it has to be you.  If you have no money?  Then it's jail in lieu of paying the fine.  Your father does not want his son to go to jail.  He pays the fine so that you can be free.  The concept of punishment is in your argument, the concept of Love is in mine.

John 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I was taken to court in 1990 because I didn't file my income tax return. I told the judge that it was my first year in employment, small pay and I was still studying part-time. The judge took pity on me and waived the punishment. I wasn't fined. No one had to pay for anything. You can say the subordinate court forgave me.

In your analogy, the $500 penalty was paid so there wasn't any forgiveness from the court. 

Correct or not?

[Ali Imran]

Actually, what Lksm said is true.

If you are a Muslim, and come here to pretend to be asking to have an intellectual discourse with us, but mock and taunt, and even insult members by saying "You don't even know your Bible!  I know the Bible better than you!", what do you want us to do? 

You are not our church pastor reprimanding us for not reading the Bible.  You are a Muslim who from the outset said "I don't believe your Bible", but still use it to play with us while leading us to say that Paul was a false apostle of Jesus Christ.

You know what you have been doing, why still want to deny?

Then, when Pink c/p the Hadiths, you say he disrespected your prophet.  We can also say you disrespected the apostle Paul.  You quote the Bible and say, "All these that I said are from your own Bible!" Pink also told Hope the same thing.  All that he quoted are from your own Hadiths.  And you boycott Pink for no valid reason other than because you don't like what he quoted.

Your friend pinkie made a heinous comment about my prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم. That is why I don't want to speak to him.

[Oyk]

They don’t believe Christ is the only way to salvation 
Their jibril is who?

They said that jibril is a holy spirit.

I can go with that answer if holy spirit is written in small letters, and not written as Holy Spirit. Angels are spirits and since Jibril is not one of the fallen angels, he is holy.  OK, Jibril is a holy spirit.

Having said that, there is no proof that it was Jibril who appeared to Muhammad.  The way Muhammad, who was illiterate, was asked to recite, by slamming him to the ground three times does not give me the impression that this "angel" was very friendly. That's not the character of Gabriel as mentioned elsewhere in our Bible. 

With Jibril, I would get the impression that he bullied Muhammad who was merely a man.  No wonder Muhamad went home and asked his wife to cover him up with a blanket because he was shivering in fear.

[Ali Imran]

Hope and Abdul don't even believe there's such a Person as the Holy Spirit, so your question to them is moot.  Also, I don't quote another Book when talking about Christianity.  I would not support any of my arguments by saying, ah! even the Quran says so, so it must be true!

Only unbelievers are capable of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Once you have accepted Christ, the new man in you in which the Holy Spirt itself indwells can never...it is impossible to...blaspheme the Holy Spirit.  The new man will not ever sin against God.  The old man however will continue to sin.

If a person rejects the Gospel, he will mock us and even make fun of God.  The last one is blasphemy.  Blasphemy and the Rejection of the Gospel are somewhat related.  A person blasphemes because he does not have Christ in him.  Without Christ, he is not saved (or forgiven).  A person who has Christ in him will not blaspheme God, no matter if it is the Father, Son or Holy Spirit.

Which kind of Christians are guided by the Holy Spirit? The Catholics? Are they guided by the Holy Spirit? Or what about the Unitarian Christians who reject the Trinity? Or the SDA who still insist you don't eat pork? 

Can you tell me?

[Ali Imran]

They said that jibril is a holy spirit.

I can go with that answer if holy spirit is written in small letters, and not written as Holy Spirit. Angels are spirits and since Jibril is not one of the fallen angels, he is holy.  OK, Jibril is a holy spirit.

Having said that, there is no proof that it was Jibril who appeared to Muhammad.  The way Muhammad, who was illiterate, was asked to recite, by slamming him to the ground three times does not give me the impression that this "angel" was very friendly. That's not the character of Gabriel as mentioned elsewhere in our Bible. 

With Jibril, I would get the impression that he bullied Muhammad who was merely a man.  No wonder, Muhamad went home and asked his wife to cover him up with a blanket because he was shivering in fear.

And when Gabriel appeared to other prophets in the Bible, the prophets were frightened just as well. You forgot we already had this discussion?

[Oyk]

Your friend pinkie made a heinous comment about my prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم. That is why I don't want to speak to him.

As I said before, but maybe you didn't understand the phrase when I said a religion like Christianity is absolute.  There is no such thing as "Yahh!  I believe my Bible but maybe...just maybe, I should also read the Quran because it also contains the Word of God".

As Christians, we only have one Book.  We don't believe that the Quran is the Word of God.

If one is a Christian, he will reject Muhammad. I thought you would know this.  In the other direction, I would also expect you to reject the Holy Spirit as the 3rd Person of God.  

Your love for Muhammad surpasses human understanding, at least mine.  I may follow Pauline teachings but I have no special love for Paul, you know.  You can insult Paul using contemporary obscene language, in Malay or Hokkien, I am not going to get my panty in a mighty twist because of that.

I know that you believe Muhammad was the one chosen to receive the Quran.  You also believe that Moses was chosen to receive the Ten Commandments, do you not? If we don't believe Moses, would you be so angry as to boycott us?  No, I doubt you would.  But if it's Muhammad, your reaction is very strong....I get the feeling that even if we say anything bad about Allah, you wouldn't be half as angry as if we had done the same to Muhammad.  This, I don't understand...

I don't know why you use such a strong adjective like heinous.

[Oyk]

Which kind of Christians are guided by the Holy Spirit? The Catholics? Are they guided by the Holy Spirit? Or what about the Unitarian Christians who reject the Trinity? Or the SDA who still insist you don't eat pork? 

Can you tell me?

The Roman Catholic Church used to say Holy Ghost thought I think they say Holy Spirit now.

When Catholics pray, they make the sign of the Cross with their right hand, and say In the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit....

Do you notice I have typed it the way they say it which is "Name" in the singular? Why Three Persons are mentioned, yet it's Name and not Names?

Actually, since you are a Muslim, I would like to discuss why the Shia and Sunni even fought, and not just make videos to laugh at each other.  There's sectarian cleansing with no tolerance for alternative interpretations of the Quran, even when both sects are holding the same Quran.  Do you know which parts of the Middle East the Sunnis were driven out by the Shias?

[pinkpanther]

Your friend pinkie made a heinous comment about my prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم. That is why I don't want to speak to him.

What? Just say your prophet buttered your behind did not suggest anything lewd what?

[Oyk]

And when Gabriel appeared to other prophets in the Bible, the prophets were frightened just as well. You forgot we already had this discussion?

I would also be frightened if a spirit appeared in front of me now,  but I trust that he would calm my nerves and say "Fear not!"  Maybe that way of speaking sounds too archaic, and the angel would say "Mai kia!  Main kia!"  

Or in Malay, jangan takut!  jangan takut! 

But if he slams me to the ground three times? I would scream, I know I would scream out to Jesus to drive him away.  This angel is bullying me.

Jibril knew that Muhammad was illiterate.  He could have told Muhammad, "Don't worry.  Allah knows that you are illiterate.  You are blessed indeed that Allah has appointed you to only recite the Word of Allah for the benefit of all men!  So, just open your mouth and Allah will speaks through you."

Instead, he slammed Muhammad to the ground three times.  That's tyrannical.  Even if your young son was lazy, came home from school, the whole day play, play, play, and didn't do his homework, would you pick him up and slam him to the ground?

[Ali Imran]

I would also be frightened if a spirit appeared in front of me now,  but I trust that he would calm my nerves and say "Fear not!"  Maybe that way of speaking sounds too archaic, and the angel would say "Mai kia!  Main kia!"  

Or in Malay, jangan takut!  jangan takut! 

But if he slams me to the ground three times? I would scream, I know I would scream out to Jesus to drive him away.  This angel is bullying me.

Jibril knew that Muhammad was illiterate.  He could have told Muhammad, "Don't worry.  Allah knows that you are illiterate.  You are blessed indeed that Allah has appointed you to only recite the Word of Allah for the benefit of all men!  So, just open your mouth and Allah will speaks through you."

Instead, he slammed Muhammad to the ground three times.  That's tyrannical.  Even if your young son was lazy, came home from school, the whole day play, play, play, and didn't do his homework, would you pick him up and slam him to the ground?

So your standard is as long as Gabriel didn't slam him to the ground, that means he is Gabriel, is that so? You draw the line at 'slamming to the ground part'. is that right?

[Ali Imran]

U mean see no evil do no evil.

Did you notice that the Muslims didn't do this great event mocking Christianity? France did it. 

Did you read the first few posts from non-Muslims in this thread mocking Christianity? 

I don't do any of that. I don't mock your faith. But yes, I am critical of your theology.

[pinkpanther]

Did you notice that the Muslims didn't do this great event mocking Christianity? France did it. 

Did you read the first few posts from non-Muslims in this thread mocking Christianity? 

I don't do any of that. I don't mock your faith. But yes, I am critical of your theology.

You pundek...You frequently misinterpret or misrepresent religious texts, which may indicate a lack of knowledge and understanding. ...This could ultimately mislead people and suggest an underlying agenda that is anti-Christ

Want some more butter?

[pinkpanther]

So your standard is as long as Gabriel didn't slam him to the ground, that means he is Gabriel, is that so? You draw the line at 'slamming to the ground part'. is that right?

Initially, Muhammad was unsure about the experience and questioned whether it was a divine encounter or a possible manifestation of an evil force, as he had never encountered anything like it before. This feeling was partly due to the intensity of the experience and the cultural context in which he lived, where supernatural encounters could evoke fear.

I will explain who Jibril is... he was actually Satan in disguise, the very same Satan who had him under a spell for a year.

[Oyk]

So your standard is as long as Gabriel didn't slam him to the ground, that means he is Gabriel, is that so? You draw the line at 'slamming to the ground part'. is that right?

Oh he could be any other angel.  I don't who it was.  It is your religion that says that it was Jibril. 

But the character of the Gabriel in the Bible does not synch with the Jibril of your religion because a spirit with more than superhuman strength slamming a poor guy on to the hard floor is violent.  Gabriel did not do such a thing.  If he had done that a few times in the Bible, then I might agree that it has to be Jibril.  But if all angels do that, then I wouldn't know which angel it was.

So! Just because the poor guy, who was frightened by the apparition, said he was illiterate, the angel had to slam him to the ground three times to get a submission from him?

[Oyk]

Initially, Muhammad was unsure about the experience and questioned whether it was a divine encounter or a possible manifestation of an evil force, as he had never encountered anything like it before. This feeling was partly due to the intensity of the experience and the cultural context in which he lived, where supernatural encounters could evoke fear.

I will explain who Jibril is... he was actually Satan in disguise, the very same Satan who had him under a spell for a year.

To my knowledge, Satan, or any demon for that matter, cannot do anything to anyone unless that person dabbles in black arts, calling up evil spirits.

If there's no record of Muhammad engaging in pagan worship, or calling up demons, which would expose him to demonic attacks and possession, it is hard to argue that it was Satan who threw Muhammad to the ground with a violent force.  Muslims will say that it was Jibril indeed, though I am still wondering why Jibril had to be so violent when he could have spoken nicely to Muhammad.

[cheekopekman]

To my knowledge, Satan, or any demon for that matter, cannot do anything to anyone unless that person dabbles in black arts, calling up evil spirits.

If there's no record of Muhammad engaging in pagan worship, or calling up demons, which would expose him to demonic attacks and possession, it is hard to argue that it was Satan who threw Muhammad to the ground with a violent force.  Muslims will say that it was Jibril indeed, though I am still wondering why Jibril had to be so violent when he could have spoken nicely to Muhammad.

It's like fire lah!  You know fire will burn so if you still play with fire then you will get burned lah!

[Lukongsimi]

Did you notice that the Muslims didn't do this great event mocking Christianity? France did it. 

Did you read the first few posts from non-Muslims in this thread mocking Christianity? 

I don't do any of that. I don't mock your faith. But yes, I am critical of your theology.

Who and where?
Critical and mock the same

[Oyk]

What? Just say your prophet buttered your behind did not suggest anything lewd what?

He said heinous which is a very strong word.

I suppose he loves Muhammed very much, and would love to meet him in the life after this.  Just like we think of a Jesus who is waiting to receive us, who loves us, for him, Muhammed is the one who will receive him with love and affection.  To say that Muhammed would butter his butter would hurt him very much.  

Let's turn it around.

A bunch of disbelievers jeer and mock us...you believe Jesus ah? Where is Jesus? Ask him to come here! If I see Jesus, I will tell him to butter your behind!  Would a Christian feel hurt?  Some would, others might probably shake the dust from their sandals lorh.

[Oyk]

It's like fire lah!  You know fire will burn so if you still play with fire then you will get burned lah!

True.

The Bible also warned us not to dabble in the occult, witchcraft, soothsayers, and sorcery.  As long as you stay clear of these, demons cannot jump inside your body and possess you. Or even attack you.

[Lukongsimi]

I was taken to court in 1990 because I didn't file my income tax return. I told the judge that it was my first year in employment, small pay and I was still studying part-time. The judge took pity on me and waived the punishment. I wasn't fined. No one had to pay for anything. You can say the subordinate court forgave me.

In your analogy, the $500 penalty was paid so there wasn't any forgiveness from the court. 

Correct or not?

Example 
U broke your Neighbour’s bicycle cos it is an obstruction at the narrow corridor.
Neighbour demanded pay them $500 but u claimed u r too poor 
Your Neighbour at last told u never mind Ali we are still Neighbour forget it
So is it forgiveness?

[pinkpanther]

He said heinous which is a very strong word.

I suppose he loves Muhammed very much, and would love to meet him in the life after this.  Just like we think of a Jesus who is waiting to receive us, who loves us, for him, Muhammed is the one who will receive him with love and affection.  To say that Muhammed would butter his butter would hurt him very much.  

Let's turn it around.

A bunch of disbelievers jeer and mock us...you believe Jesus ah? Where is Jesus? Ask him to come here! If I see Jesus, I will tell him to butter your behind!  Would a Christian feel hurt?  Some would, others might probably shake the dust from their sandals lorh.

He is simply overreacting to minor issues.... Making a big deal out of trivial matters is typically a behavior associated with a petty person. While I haven't directly insulted Muhammed, my comment about him buttering Ali’s behind was meant as a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously....