[EvertonDiehard]

In 2 Peter 3:3 – 4 in the Holy Bible, the apostle Peter warns the church what will happen in the last days between the first and second coming of Jesus. Mockers will try to ridicule Jesus. These scoffers are totally depraved. They believe in human philosophy, psychology, secular culture and evolution. And they mock the Bible and the truth it discloses about God and Jesus, about sinful humans and their salvation in Jesus, about the judgment to come, and about heaven and hell. These mockers are fools. 

In Psalm 53:1 we read, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’” The devil is a mocker and all his followers are mockers. Jesus said, “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44).

[pinkpanther]

To my knowledge, Satan, or any demon for that matter, cannot do anything to anyone unless that person dabbles in black arts, calling up evil spirits.

If there's no record of Muhammad engaging in pagan worship, or calling up demons, which would expose him to demonic attacks and possession, it is hard to argue that it was Satan who threw Muhammad to the ground with a violent force.  Muslims will say that it was Jibril indeed, though I am still wondering why Jibril had to be so violent when he could have spoken nicely to Muhammad.

Jibril doesn't need to exert such pressure on Muhammad thrice... that's completely unnecessary. All he needs to do is identify himself and communicate clearly with Muhammad, which is what an angel of the Lord would typically do.

It's quite amusing to think that Muhammad, who has taken so many lives, ran home in fear and asked his wife for a blanket to hide himself.

[EvertonDiehard]

Notice that mockers of God and the church are abnormal and sinful people such as homosexuals, lesbians and mentally disturbed individuals. They blame God for their depraved state, when it is sin that has brought them such misfortune.

[cheekopekman]

Notice that mockers of God and the church are abnormal and sinful people such as homosexuals, lesbians and mentally disturbed individuals. They blame God for their depraved state, when it is sin that has brought them such misfortune.

God will punish all of them 1 day lah!

[pinkpanther]

God will punish all of them 1 day lah!

many people believe that individuals who identify as homosexual can have faith in God. The relationship between sexual orientation and faith is deeply personal and can vary widely among individuals and religious communities. 

Ultimately, faith is a personal experience, and many LGBTQ+ individuals find strength, community, and affirmation in their spirituality. It's important to approach this topic with sensitivity, understanding, and respect for diverse beliefs and experiences.

Remember..we are all sinners!

[Oyk]

He is simply overreacting to minor issues.... Making a big deal out of trivial matters is typically a behavior associated with a petty person. While I haven't directly insulted Muhammed, my comment about him buttering Ali’s behind was meant as a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously....

He has not even kena half the intensity of the kind of attacks and insults I received in this forum yet.

[cheekopekman]

many people believe that individuals who identify as homosexual can have faith in God. The relationship between sexual orientation and faith is deeply personal and can vary widely among individuals and religious communities. 

Ultimately, faith is a personal experience, and many LGBTQ+ individuals find strength, community, and affirmation in their spirituality. It's important to approach this topic with sensitivity, understanding, and respect for diverse beliefs and experiences.

Remember..we are all sinners!

Yes, you're right lah!  I'm also a sinner lah!

[pinkpanther]

He has not even kena half the intensity of the kind of attacks and insults I received in this forum yet.

Yours is a "friendship gathering," albeit in a unique manner 

[pinkpanther]

I was taken to court in 1990 because I didn't file my income tax return. I told the judge that it was my first year in employment, small pay and I was still studying part-time. The judge took pity on me and waived the punishment. I wasn't fined. No one had to pay for anything. You can say the subordinate court forgave me.

In your analogy, the $500 penalty was paid so there wasn't any forgiveness from the court. 

Correct or not?

You admit that failing to file your income tax was a mistake, that is a confession and your commitment is to never repeat it. That is repentance...As a result, the judge shows you leniency, considering your youth and naivety.That is forgiveness.....

You bodoh!

[Oyk]

Notice that mockers of God and the church are abnormal and sinful people such as homosexuals, lesbians and mentally disturbed individuals. They blame God for their depraved state, when it is sin that has brought them such misfortune.

That mocker does not understand why the world came to this state which had fallen.  He said that God had made an engineering design flaw.  This explains why our bodies are not perfect, in health etc....according to his understanding,  He said that since God created us, he should have ensured that we didn't have to suffer as we are in this world.   Since we are suffering, therefore this God is a lousy Creator lorh.

As you said above, it is Sin indeed which caused the Creation to turn topsy-turvy.  We were created to live, and to live with God, not to die.  Now everything is dying, and for most of us, there's suffering before we die. I won't go into discussing how frail our bodies would become in old age, but we all know...here pain there pain.

Anyway, God has provided a Way for our redemption.  Regardless of whether one is a gay, a queer (and they didn't even harm anyone), or a gangster, a murderer (these harmed peepur), God's grace is sufficient for them.  They too can be saved, but first of all, they need to deal with their ego and pride. It is not easy because Man is very smart, he thinks that he can resolve all his problems, just pump more money in R&D, maybe now he can also use Artificial Intelligence, and do computer simulations and unlock the secrets of the universe like he is god.

God will punish all of them 1 day lah!

many people believe that individuals who identify as homosexual can have faith in God. The relationship between sexual orientation and faith is deeply personal and can vary widely among individuals and religious communities. 

Ultimately, faith is a personal experience, and many LGBTQ+ individuals find strength, community, and affirmation in their spirituality. It's important to approach this topic with sensitivity, understanding, and respect for diverse beliefs and experiences.

Remember..we are all sinners!

[cheekopekman]

That mocker does not understand why the world came to this state which had fallen.  He said that God had made an engineering design flaw.  This explains why our bodies are not perfect, in health etc....according to his understanding,  He said that since God created us, he should have ensured that we didn't have to suffer as we are in this world.   Since we are suffering, therefore this God is a lousy Creator lorh.

As you said above, it is Sin indeed which caused the Creation to turn topsy-turvy.  We were created to live, and to live with God, not to die.  Now everything is dying, and for most of us, there's suffering before we die. I won't go into discussing how frail our bodies would become in old age, but we all know...here pain there pain.

Anyway, God has provided a Way for our redemption.  Regardless of whether one is a gay, a queer (and they didn't even harm anyone), or a gangster, a murderer (these harmed peepur), God's grace is sufficient for them.  They too can be saved, but first of all, they need to deal with their ego and pride. It is not easy because Man is very smart, he thinks that he can resolve all his problems, just pump more money in R&D, maybe now he can also use Artificial Intelligence, and do computer simulations and unlock the secrets of the universe like he is god.

Jesus is delaying His return so that all will repent and not perish lah!  Still got time to repent lah!

[Oyk]

I was taken to court in 1990 because I didn't file my income tax return. I told the judge that it was my first year in employment, small pay and I was still studying part-time. The judge took pity on me and waived the punishment. I wasn't fined. No one had to pay for anything. You can say the subordinate court forgave me.

In your analogy, the $500 penalty was paid so there wasn't any forgiveness from the court. 

Correct or not?

Is that what turned you into a PAP hater?  HHH hates the PAP because of some issues with her education matters.  There are civil servants...and the IRAS staff are all civil servants, who go by the book. They should have posted a reminder letter to you by Registered Mail...in 1990, that was the way things were done.  Like the private sector, some civil servants don't do a good job.

Anyway, your understanding of my analogy is wrong.  Death for eating the fruit is an immutable law of God.  If you eat it, the other side of the equation is Death.  God does not change His mind on a whim.  He's not going to say to A&E, come bend over, I am going to cane you, teach you a lesson not to be disobedient.  By right, you are supposed to die but I will let you off this time.  But if I catch you one more time, you'd better....

The death and resurrection of Jesus was not about forgiveness of sin per se but God having to do what He said.  That Death was taken up by Jesus.  Only after the Original Sin's debt had been paid can we talk about forgiveness.

Your example of the judge would be like this...The judge was your father.  He had to go by the law book and fine you $500.  Immediately after that, he took off his judge's robe, and went to pay the fine for you.

Today, many of the sins we commit are far and away worse than merely eating a fruit.  Yet, God can forgive all those heinous sins and will not send us to hell but there's a caveat.  We must first receive the salvation of Christ because even if God forgives our sins of lying, stealing etc, we are still headed for south of heaven if we don't have the grace of God through Christ.  The Bible says:  We are saved by grace through faith.

[Lukongsimi]

Jesus is delaying His return so that all will repent and not perish lah!  Still got time to repent lah!

And tomorrow if cannot wake up how to repent leh

[Lukongsimi]

God created us. He knew us before we were born. He knit us together in our mother's womb.
What a miracle that is!

God also knew that we could never ever be good or holy enough on our own merit to come into His presence and have fellowship with Him. So God gave up His Son to die for us at Calvary. Jesus took the penalty of our sins on the cross, just so we can know God.

God knows your name and He has claimed you as His own.

“Fear not, for I have redeemed you;

I have called you by name, you are mine." Isaiah 43:1.

During Old Testament times, God commissioned the priests to bless Israel and put His name on them. He promised to redeem them if they sought Him. We are so blessed to live in this modern age, knowing that our savior, Jesus paid that ransom for us already to gain God's blessing too.

[Ali Imran]

Is that what turned you into a PAP hater?  HHH hates the PAP because of some issues with her education matters.  There are civil servants...and the IRAS staff are all civil servants, who go by the book. They should have posted a reminder letter to you by Registered Mail...in 1990, that was the way things were done.  Like the private sector, some civil servants don't do a good job.

Anyway, your understanding of my analogy is wrong.  Death for eating the fruit is an immutable law of God.  If you eat it, the other side of the equation is Death.  God does not change His mind on a whim.  He's not going to say to A&E, come bend over, I am going to cane you, teach you a lesson not to be disobedient.  By right, you are supposed to die but I will let you off this time.  But if I catch you one more time, you'd better....

The death and resurrection of Jesus was not about forgiveness of sin per se but God having to do what He said.  That Death was taken up by Jesus.  Only after the Original Sin's debt had been paid can we talk about forgiveness.

Your example of the judge would be like this...The judge was your father.  He had to go by the law book and fine you $500.  Immediately after that, he took off his judge's robe, and went to pay the fine for you.

Today, many of the sins we commit are far and away worse than merely eating a fruit.  Yet, God can forgive all those heinous sins and will not send us to hell but there's a caveat.  We must first receive the salvation of Christ because even if God forgives our sins of lying, stealing etc, we are still headed for south of heaven if we don't have the grace of God through Christ.  The Bible says:  We are saved by grace through faith.

The court incident taught me our justice system has mercy as an element. The penal system is similar to yours in the 2nd paragraph. I failed to submit my returns and I have broken the law. The penalty was a $50 fine. The judge exercised mercy on me and waived the penalty. No one had to pay anything.

Your analogy lacks the mercy element. 

And no, I don't hate PAP. I am rather apolitical. I don't care much about our politics.

[Ali Imran]

Notice that mockers of God and the church are abnormal and sinful people such as homosexuals, lesbians and mentally disturbed individuals. They blame God for their depraved state, when it is sin that has brought them such misfortune.

In this case, you're saying the organizers of the Olympics are depraved people. 

How can you say that?

[Ali Imran]

In 2 Peter 3:3 – 4 in the Holy Bible, the apostle Peter warns the church what will happen in the last days between the first and second coming of Jesus. Mockers will try to ridicule Jesus. These scoffers are totally depraved. They believe in human philosophy, psychology, secular culture and evolution. And they mock the Bible and the truth it discloses about God and Jesus, about sinful humans and their salvation in Jesus, about the judgment to come, and about heaven and hell. These mockers are fools. 

In Psalm 53:1 we read, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’” The devil is a mocker and all his followers are mockers. Jesus said, “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44).

I'd like to take you up on that.

Some believers of the Bible believe God is a Trinitarian while some believe God is a Unitarian. Some believe Jesus is God while some believe he is only the son of God. A growing group says he is just a good teacher, not God. 

As you can see, the believers of the Bible have diverse beliefs about God and Jesus. Which one is the truth? They can't all be true.

[Oyk]

The court incident taught me our justice system has mercy as an element. The penal system is similar to yours in the 2nd paragraph. I failed to submit my returns and I have broken the law. The penalty was a $50 fine. The judge exercised mercy on me and waived the penalty. No one had to pay anything.

Your analogy lacks the mercy element. 

And no, I don't hate PAP. I am rather apolitical. I don't care much about our politics.

You don't deserve mercy. 

It was your first job after graduating with an engineering degree.  Your first year's income was high enough to be taxed already. 
 
You were not someone who started working after Sec 4 and NS earning $700 a month which would not be taxed.  You were/ are an intelligent and knowledgeable person.  You should have confessed that you had forgotten to about it because you were very busy studying the Bible to see how you can mock and taunt others, and it was not that you were naïve and wet behind the ears, and didn't know.  

If I were the judge, I would impose a $500 fine plus one day in the chalet...

[Ali Imran]

You don't deserve mercy. 

It was your first job after graduating with an engineering degree.  Your first year's income was high enough to be taxed already. 
 
You were not someone who started working after Sec 4 and NS earning $700 a month which would not be taxed.  You were/ are an intelligent and knowledgeable person.  You should have confessed that you had forgotten to pay because you were very busy studying the Bible to see how you can mock and taunt others, and it was not that you were naïve and wet behind the ears, and didn't know.  

If I were the judge, I would impose a $500 fine plus one day in the chalet...

Actually, my pay at that time was about 900 bucks only. 

Anyhow, the word is mercy. The judge exercised mercy and the penalty was waived. In your theology, God cannot do what that human judge can, waive the penalty. Someone had to pay the penalty.

[Oyk]

In this case, you're saying the organizers of the Olympics are depraved people. 

How can you say that?

I don't know whether you are trolling or you think it is OK because Christians are being mocked. But I am sure that if it was not the Last Supper, but a picture of Muhammad eating pork to make fun of your religion, sabres will start rattling.

[pinkpanther]

I'd like to take you up on that.

Some believers of the Bible believe God is a Trinitarian while some believe God is a Unitarian. Some believe Jesus is God while some believe he is only the son of God. A growing group says he is just a good teacher, not God. 

As you can see, the believers of the Bible have diverse beliefs about God and Jesus. Which one is the truth? They can't all be true.

Who would want to engage with you when you are perceived as unreliable, twisting and misrepresenting words without providing substantial evidence to support your own claims. 

When present with findings.. you avoid confronting the facts and choose to feign ignorance. Who wants to play with you "busoh"

You take responsibility for creating a negative reputation for yourself.

[Oyk]

Actually, my pay at that time was about 900 bucks only. 

Anyhow, the word is mercy. The judge exercised mercy and the penalty was waived. In your theology, God cannot do what that human judge can, waive the penalty. Someone had to pay the penalty.

God is merciful indeed to forgive our sins.  However, He cannot say one thing and does another.  Are you suggesting that although God said to A&E, that the penalty for eating the fruit was Death, this God was not merciful because He did not waive the penalty, and only Allah is Most Merciful?

I am afraid I have to disagree.  According to my Bible, I am advised to stay away from false doctrines.

[Ali Imran]

God is merciful indeed to forgive our sins. 

We're talking about the original sin which according to you, the penalty must be paid and Jesus was made to pay for it. Ergo, there is no forgiveness.

[Oyk]

Who would want to engage with you when you are perceived as unreliable, twisting and misrepresenting words without providing substantial evidence to support your own claims. 

When present with findings.. you avoid confronting the facts and choose to feign ignorance. Who wants to play with you "busoh"

You take responsibility for creating a negative reputation for yourself.

He does not want to comment on my post about why Jibril had to be so violent to Muhamad.  As you can see, he is baiting Everton to "discuss" Trinity in a veiled attempt to mock and taunt him.

It's always, stay away from discussing Islam, and steer it back to Christianity.  You know his game.

[Ali Imran]

God is merciful indeed to forgive our sins.  However, He cannot say one thing and does another.  Are you suggesting that although God said to A&E, that the penalty for eating the fruit was Death, this God was not merciful because He did not waive the penalty, and only Allah is Most Merciful?

I am afraid I have to disagree.  According to my Bible, I am advised to stay away from false doctrines.

Yes, we can agree to disagree. 

In the case of the original sin, you believe God cannot exercise mercy.

[Ali Imran]

He does not want to comment on my post about why Jibril had to be so violent to Muhamad.  As you can see, he is baiting Everton to "discuss" Trinity in a veiled attempt to mock and taunt him.

It's always, stay away from discussing Islam, and steer it back to Christianity.  You know his game.

Did the prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم come back with broken bones? Or bruises and wounds?

So no, Gabriel didn't hurt the prophet.

[Oyk]

We're talking about the original sin which according to you, the penalty must be paid and Jesus was paid for it. Ergo, there is no forgiveness.

Did you read what I wrote upthread or are you pretending to be stupid?  Christ's Death and Resurrection was not about forgiveness but Redemption and Reconciliation with God.

I shall not be responding to any further posts about this from you because you are actually trolling me, while smirking behind your keyboard.

[Ali Imran]

Did you read what I wrote upthread or are you pretending to be stupid?  Christ's Death and Resurrection was not about forgiveness but Redemption and Reconciliation with God.

I shall not be responding to any further posts about this from you because you are actually trolling me, while smirking behind your keyboard.

Ok. Same difference. You believe Jesus had to die because the original sin is unforgivable, "not about forgiveness" you said.

[pinkpanther]

He does not want to comment on my post about why Jibril had to be so violent to Muhamad.  As you can see, he is baiting Everton to "discuss" Trinity in a veiled attempt to mock and taunt him.

It's always, stay away from discussing Islam, and steer it back to Christianity.  You know his game.

When you present the Quran or Hadith to him, he can't provide any answers. He's only comfortable when a newcomer falls right into his traps.... If Everton chooses to engage with him, just be ready for a frustrating and blood vomiting experience...

[Oyk]

When you present the Quran or Hadith to him, he can't provide any answers. He's only comfortable when a newcomer falls right into his traps.... If Everton chooses to engage with him, just be ready for a frustrating and blood vomiting experience...

He told us to become Muslims but he also said we need knowledge.

Did he become a Muslim without knowledge about his religion? How come he cannot answer your questions?