[debono]

Who cares what other Singaporeans want? Most important is what you want, to let PAP continue in full power or reduce their majority?

I believe that most Singaporeans, wants the current govt. to be in place, but they also want more opposition in Parliament (maybe 1/3) of them.  Even with a majority of PAP MPs citizens here wants to keep the status quo, that they are enjoying for the past few decades....

[Blasterlord2]

There is no analogy that fits a rape case and the person telling the public the truth is the rape victim.

If it was a fraudulence case, I will side ET line of argument and press for WP to be punished for late reporting since they already knew it way upfront.

Rape and victim of rape is the not normal element to the case. 

Again what's so not normal to RK case is that she was so troubled by it for a couple of months but now so readily and OK to go public with it. Also turned key witness against WP for their so call lapsed... Now that's extremely illogical to me...

It is precisely they do not know if it is fraudulent that they have to convene the COP. 

I've already posed an example before. If your subordinate is supposed to do something (on a big matter), will you leave him alone to decide at his own sweet time when he will do it? And when he didn't do it, your response will just be 'keep me posted'? 

If really PS handles his party in such a way, then he'd be an extremely lousy leader.

[RichDad]

Go and see who started the reply. I'm not the one. So I find it strange when you replied to me then you don't expect me to retort back.

As I've said, there's a big difference in the two matters. For one, VB is simply ignorant about the law. The law is simply there and he just misunderstood it. What's there to gain for him by lying about it?

Yes, there are different.

Same with PS. What's there to gain by asking RK to keep lying? Only loss. But of course we will never know unless we are there.

Still pap not clarifying immediately in the TT saga weakens their accusation against WP not clarifying immediately also.

It is like the ostrich laughing at the penguin for not being able to fly.

[debono]

Yes, there are different.

Same with PS. What's there to gain by asking RK to keep lying? Only loss. But of course we will never know unless we are there.

Still pap not clarifying immediately in the TT saga weakens their accusation against WP not clarifying immediately also.

It is like the ostrich laughing at the penguin for not being able to fly.

A well-thought out analogy......let not the pot call the kettle black.....there must not be double standards when making the rules....

[lylcnn]

An evidence ET pointed out was the Oct 4th hearing, nothing was prepared, as compared to RK's November clarification when many WP folks were involved (understandably, as concerns party future reputation so can't have unintended communication). PS reply was it was not certain RK will admit on Oct 4th...this would seem not logical to most as one would expect thorough plans in place whether she admit or not in Oct 4th parliament session.

[RichDad]

It is precisely they do not know if it is fraudulent that they have to convene the COP. 

I've already posed an example before. If your subordinate is supposed to do something (on a big matter), will you leave him alone to decide at his own sweet time when he will do it? And when he didn't do it, your response will just be 'keep me posted'? 

If really PS handles his party in such a way, then he'd be an extremely lousy leader.

Haha. Maybe he is a really lousy leader. But current pap also got lousy leader.

No great leader has emerged since LKY. Maybe we need a big crisis to throw up another great leader and team.

[Blasterlord2]

Yes, there are different.

Same with PS. What's there to gain by asking RK to keep lying? Only loss. But of course we will never know unless we are there.

Still pap not clarifying immediately in the TT saga weakens their accusation against WP not clarifying immediately also.

It is like the ostrich laughing at the penguin for not being able to fly.

Let me tell you what PS will gain by lying. At the very least, he thought that the whole matter will be kept under wraps and WP's reputation will be protected.

What will VB gain by lying? As mentioned numerous times, the law is already set as such, even if he lies about it, there is no way people do not know about it. So why would someone be so stupid to lie about something that has no benefits and easily discoverable?

[RichDad]

An evidence ET pointed out was the Oct 4th hearing, nothing was prepared, as compared to RK's November clarification when many WP folks were involved (understandably, as concerns party future reputation so can't have unintended communication). PS reply was it was not certain RK will admit on Oct 4th...this would seem not logical to most as one would expect thorough plans in place whether she admit or not in Oct 4th parliament session.

Maybe PS is a lousy leader?

[Sticw]

It is precisely they do not know if it is fraudulent that they have to convene the COP. 

I've already posed an example before. If your subordinate is supposed to do something (on a big matter), will you leave him alone to decide at his own sweet time when he will do it? And when he didn't do it, your response will just be 'keep me posted'? 

If really PS handles his party in such a way, then he'd be an extremely lousy leader.

You are using a work assignment to compare. When it comes to work, emotions are set aside. If something happened at home, the boss can ask how long it takes to settle or ask the person to go no pay leave.

You are talking about a supposedly rape victim coming to you to tell you her dark secret. Then you will give her a timeline to fix something she kept as a secret for a decade to be resolved with her family in a week or so?

That's why I said, perhaps when the white folks have rape experience themselves or in their family, they should quickly do a press conference and throw a few tables to announce to the world. 

The COP is all in hindsight kind of argument. And treating rape and rape victim as just another flu or cold that's common and can just address immediately instead of giving the person time to fix herself.

[lylcnn]

Maybe PS is a lousy leader?

Possible simply not forceful enough? And message recipient misunderstood?

[*天哥*]

Lets imagine this hypothesis happened: RK lie was never discovered and the Bedok Police Station still trying to check the records.

And let's imagine the Bedok Police Station check was inconclusive...

What do u think will happen to the reputation of Police ?

Who do u think unfairly gained favor and support ?

Think about it...

[*天哥*]

You are using a work assignment to compare. When it comes to work, emotions are set aside. If something happened at home, the boss can ask how long it takes to settle or ask the person to go no pay leave.

You are talking about a supposedly rape victim coming to you to tell you her dark secret. Then you will give her a timeline to fix something she kept as a secret for a decade to be resolved with her family in a week or so?

That's why I said, perhaps when the white folks have rape experience themselves or in their family, they should quickly do a press conference and throw a few tables to announce to the world. 

The COP is all in hindsight kind of argument. And treating rape and rape victim as just another flu or cold that's common and can just address immediately instead of giving the person time to fix herself.

Reasonable thinking but read my hypothetical scenario just posted above.

[RichDad]

Let me tell you what PS will gain by lying. At the very least, he thought that the whole matter will be kept under wraps and WP's reputation will be protected.

What will VB gain by lying? As mentioned numerous times, the law is already set as such, even if he lies about it, there is no way people do not know about it. So why would someone be so stupid to lie about something that has no benefits and easily discoverable?

I already said VB likely didn't lie but was blur. But why not clarify immediately after he knew his mistake? He hopes that no one finds out lah so his reputation is clean. Bet you didn't know. I didn't know also about the TT thing.

As for PS if he thinks this way like you said, then he is indeed a lousy leader. A gambler. He should know the police will refute and pap will bite and not let go. Unthinkable unless he is indeed lousy LOTO.

[Blasterlord2]

You are using a work assignment to compare. When it comes to work, emotions are set aside. If something happened at home, the boss can ask how long it takes to settle or ask the person to go no pay leave.

You are talking about a supposedly rape victim coming to you to tell you her dark secret. Then you will give her a timeline to fix something she kept as a secret for a decade to be resolved with her family in a week or so?

That's why I said, perhaps when the white folks have rape experience themselves or in their family, they should quickly do a press conference and throw a few tables to announce to the world. 

The COP is all in hindsight kind of argument. And treating rape and rape victim as just another flu or cold that's common and can just address immediately instead of giving the person time to fix herself.

Brother, it is 2 months he gave. And even after she did not clarify in the parliament, he still did not insist that she clarify the next day. Not just that, he didn't even ask if she has told her parents when she repeated the lie, but assume that she has not. Incredible.

[lylcnn]

You are using a work assignment to compare. When it comes to work, emotions are set aside. If something happened at home, the boss can ask how long it takes to settle or ask the person to go no pay leave.

You are talking about a supposedly rape victim coming to you to tell you her dark secret. Then you will give her a timeline to fix something she kept as a secret for a decade to be resolved with her family in a week or so?

That's why I said, perhaps when the white folks have rape experience themselves or in their family, they should quickly do a press conference and throw a few tables to announce to the world. 

The COP is all in hindsight kind of argument. And treating rape and rape victim as just another flu or cold that's common and can just address immediately instead of giving the person time to fix herself.

can it be clarified without revealing sex assault details? To eradicate lie as immediate objective? if no, why not? Is there gains to be had in hoping issue blows over by itself? If it did, who gained who lost?

[debono]

Maybe PS is a lousy leader?

I beg to differ, on the contrary I think he is a good leader, only that RK had put him in a tight spot.......

[toothpick]

The real hard truth is, most people in WP position will do what they did.

Unless you are the government, do you think it is so easy to go up there and admit to your adversaries that you have a lying cat in your party? Let a childish person bring down the party? Of course will hope and pray Shanmugan and the rest doesn't pursue this lie.

Not backing WP but with Khan in the party, it about when the shit hits the fan.

[RichDad]

Lets imagine this hypothesis happened: RK lie was never discovered and the Bedok Police Station still trying to check the records.

And let's imagine the Bedok Police Station check was inconclusive...

What do u think will happen to the reputation of Police ?

Who do u think unfairly gained favor and support ?

Think about it...

Firstly the incident may have happened, just that it wasn't RK who accompanied the victim there. We don't know.

But since the police investigated and found out there is no such incident, then what reputation loss? It is a baseless accusation at best because RK won't be able to prove it and will be exposed.

[Sticw]

OK we can't do this neatly as there's element of hindsight here. But say I'm PS, and RK revealed to me that she lied. And then she shared further that she was the victim and there was no police case.

What I would do, I'm assuming it can be done, is that I will call for a private meeting with Parliament head, PM Lee and whoever else that is required. I will have RK there to admit that she lied about the police case but also informed that she was the victim then. Then see how to address it. Of course, RK must be comfortable to reveal to this bigger group (which is the strange part to me that she is now revealing to entire world, not just Singapore).

[RichDad]

I beg to differ, on the contrary I think he is a good leader, only that RK had put him in a tight spot.......

We never know. He may be a good speaker but may be too soft or indecisive. Not everyone can be like LKY.

I think pinky is a weak leader too.

[*天哥*]

The key point I m trying to tell you is this : there is no need for RK to use that lie which involve police reputation nor reveal any of her dark secrets to anyone or the Parliament, in order to bring support and attention to sexual assualt victims. RK can easily do it for these victims by quoting other examples and be frank that she heard it in a group and did not accompany any SA victims to any police stations nor Bedok Police Station. PS should have immediately suspend her upon knowing she lied and the gravity of the lie is heavy due to allegation against Singapore mata mishandling SA victims.

Get it now why handsome Tong and Desmond kept digging and diggging like minecraft ?

[*天哥*]

Firstly the incident may have happened, just that it wasn't RK who accompanied the victim there. We don't know.

But since the police investigated and found out there is no such incident, then what reputation loss? It is a baseless accusation at best because RK won't be able to prove it and will be exposed.

What if it was never found out ?

[Blasterlord2]

I already said VB likely didn't lie but was blur. But why not clarify immediately after he knew his mistake? He hopes that no one finds out lah so his reputation is clean. Bet you didn't know. I didn't know also about the TT thing.

As for PS if he thinks this way like you said, then he is indeed a lousy leader.  A gambler.  He should know the police will refute and pap will bite and not let go. Unthinkable unless he is indeed lousy LOTO.

Ha! So now you agreed that a COP shouldn't be called.

I don't think the crux of the matter is on whether VB should clarify immediately or not, since he doesn't even know the law well enough, nor bother to check, perhaps thinking that it's not such a big deal. If you want to be strict about it, then you might as well point the finger at Ah Shan why he didn't clarify at the first instance, since he's the law minister and should know the law well.

You're comparing something that is trivial to something that is not.

[debono]

The real hard truth is, most people in WP position will do what they did.

Unless you are the government, do you think it is so easy to go up there and admit to your adversaries that you have a lying cat in your party? Let a childish person bring down the party? Of course will hope and pray Shanmugan and the rest doesn't pursue this lie.

Not backing WP but with Khan in the party, it about when the shit hits the fan.

We have only the WP as opposition party in Parliament. If PS were to be found guilty, then we may lose an opposition leader, and also we may not have any opposition party in Parliament if PS were to step down.  If we don't have any opposition in Parliament, the leadership of WP hangs in the balance....

[*天哥*]

OK we can't do this neatly as there's element of hindsight here. But say I'm PS, and RK revealed to me that she lied. And then she shared further that she was the victim and there was no police case.

What I would do, I'm assuming it can be done, is that I will call for a private meeting with Parliament head, PM Lee and whoever else that is required. I will have RK there to admit that she lied about the police case but also informed that she was the victim then. Then see how to address it. Of course, RK must be comfortable to reveal to this bigger group (which is the strange part to me that she is now revealing to entire world, not just Singapore).

Correct.

[Sticw]

Lets imagine this hypothesis happened: RK lie was never discovered and the Bedok Police Station still trying to check the records.

And let's imagine the Bedok Police Station check was inconclusive...

What do u think will happen to the reputation of Police ?

Who do u think unfairly gained favor and support ?

Think about it...

I agree that the SPF effort and reputation is a huge damage. She then detonated the WP also. Then we are wasting even more time and money with COP. Only to find out that she's actually a spy from country x... This last statement is just a joke. But the entire sg system got played out by one RK episode...

I thought I read that PS reviewed and put the word "substantiate" to her original speech? She said she doesn't understand it, then why she did not bother to check with PS? And she went on with her speech and added vinegar and salt that was not cleared?

But the key discussion now at COP is on why the WP know about the lie earlier and did nothing to address it. 

I don't agree with PS line of argument that because he does not know how much effort goes into checking on case record, therefore he doesn't think it affected the SPF greatly. This kind of argument is like RK saying she doesn't understand what he meant with the word "substantiate".

[Blasterlord2]

The real hard truth is, most people in WP position will do what they did.

Unless you are the government, do you think it is so easy to go up there and admit to your adversaries that you have a lying cat in your party? Let a childish person bring down the party? Of course will hope and pray Shanmugan and the rest doesn't pursue this lie.

Not backing WP but with Khan in the party, it about when the shit hits the fan.

This is precisely why I thought PS will ask RK to keep quiet and not pursue the matter in parliament. I don't blame PS for doing what he's doing (if he really told RK to take the matter to the grave). What I cannot understand is why people here are thinking that this couldn't be a possibility. Much of the illogicalities actually point to this possibility.

[Blasterlord2]

OK we can't do this neatly as there's element of hindsight here. But say I'm PS, and RK revealed to me that she lied. And then she shared further that she was the victim and there was no police case.

What I would do, I'm assuming it can be done, is that I will call for a private meeting with Parliament head, PM Lee and whoever else that is required. I will have RK there to admit that she lied about the police case but also informed that she was the victim then. Then see how to address it. Of course, RK must be comfortable to reveal to this bigger group (which is the strange part to me that she is now revealing to entire world, not just Singapore).

How old are you now? Got chance to join WP and take charge? 

[Sticw]

This is precisely why I thought PS will ask RK to keep quiet and not pursue the matter in parliament. I don't blame PS for doing what he's doing (if he really told RK to take the matter to the grave). What I cannot understand is why people here are thinking that this couldn't be a possibility. Much of the illogicalities actually point to this possibility.

Actually many of my ex bosses also did mistakes, never own up and rise to high post... Lol

Take the grave and some even share about the mistakes years later cos they at high post that those mistakes became manageable... Lol

Just sharing...

[Sticw]

How old are you now? Got chance to join WP and take charge? 

I'm a nobody, don't think anyone will want me in the political arena. I dunno how to carry balls. Lol