[pinkpanther]

So, the covenant of circumcision covers the descendants of Abraham, pbuh, which includes Ishmael, pbuh.

Which do you trust more? the Quran or the Bible?
The Quran did not say much... Whose authority do you rely on when forming your judgments?

[Ali Imran]

Which do you trust more? the Quran or the Bible?
The Quran did not say much... Whose authority do you rely on when forming your judgments?

In this case, which is inconsequential to me, we're using the Bible. I'm only discussing this with you because what you're saying, that Ishmael wasn't included in the covenant of circumcision, is false, according to the Bible.

[pinkpanther]

In this case, which is inconsequential to me, we're using the Bible. I'm only discussing this with you because what you're saying, that Ishmael wasn't included in the covenant of circumcision, is false, according to the Bible.

Does the Quran align with or support the position of the Bible?

[pinkpanther]

In this case, which is inconsequential to me, we're using the Bible. I'm only discussing this with you because what you're saying, that Ishmael wasn't included in the covenant of circumcision, is false, according to the Bible.

You moslems circumcise although there are no specific reasons mentioned in the Quran for this practice...if the Quran give reasons why moslems should potong, pls show me

[pinkpanther]

You should be ashamed after this but it seems you have no shame.

Forgive me for saying that but it has to be said.

 Why are you offended by what the Bible says and how I interpret it? I thought you don't believe in it...
You said it was corrupted, yet you put the blame on me

 You quoted the Bible and claimed that I have no shame...  and Yes, I will forgive your hypocrisy.

[Ali Imran]

Does the Quran align with or support the position of the Bible?

No, I don't think so.

Wallahu 'alam.

[pinkpanther]

No, I don't think so.

Wallahu 'alam.

What does the Quran say?

[Ali Imran]

 Why are you offended by what the Bible says and how I interpret it? I thought you didn't believe in it...
You said it was corrupted, yet you put the blame on me

 You quoted the Bible and claimed that I have no shame...  and Yes, I will forgive your hypocrisy.

You made the statement that Ishmael wasn't included in the covenant of circumcision and I've shown you that Ishmael is included, according to your Bible.

So you made a mistake yet you arrogantly think you're right. After being proven wrong, you should be ashamed.

[Ali Imran]

What does the Quran say?

There is no mention of circumcision in the Quran.

We are circumcised because our Prophet told us to do so, albeit not a command.

Wallahu 'alam.

[pinkpanther]

There is no mention of circumcision in the Quran.

What about isaac and ishmael and Abraham convenant with God

[Lukongsimi]

Does a Muslim need to be circumcised?
Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Malik consider circumcision to be recommended but not obligatory. This means that if done, its doer is rewarded by God, and if not done, there is no punishment or reward. The scholars agree that circumcision entails the removal of all or the majority of the foreskin that covers the glans only.

[Lukongsimi]

Christians are not required to be circumcised. While physical circumcision was a sign of the covenant with God in the Old Testament, the New Testament teaches that it has been fulfilled and replaced by baptism as the sign of the new covenant in Jesus Christ.

[pinkpanther]

There is no mention of circumcision in the Quran.

We are circumcised because our Prophet told to do so, albeit not a command.

OK So it was not obligatory.....why? But you are descendants of Ishmael!! Why is it not compulsory

[Lukongsimi]

ce, God commanded him to offer his son Isaac as a burnt offering. While the Quranic account of the sacrifice does not explicitly name the son

[Ali Imran]

What about isaac and ishmael and Abraham convenant with God

There are many covenants mentioned in the Quran. If we search for the word 'covenant', we will get more than 10, maybe even 20.

And yes, the covenant between God and Abraham is mentioned. The condition of the covenant is that we worship none but God alone.

[Ali Imran]

OK So it was not obligatory.....why? But you are descendants of Ishmael!! Why is it not compulsory

Some scholars opined that it is mandatory. If we want to be a part of the covenant, we must be circumcised.

[Ali Imran]

Christians are not required to be circumcised. While physical circumcision was a sign of the covenant with God in the Old Testament, the New Testament teaches that it has been fulfilled and replaced by baptism as the sign of the new covenant in Jesus Christ.

Circumcision is mandatory for the followers of Jesus. The religion of Jesus made it mandatory.

[pinkpanther]

You made the statement that Ishmael wasn't included in the covenant of circumcision and I've shown you that Ishmael is included, according to your Bible.

So you made a mistake yet you arrogantly think you're right. After being proven wrong, you should be ashamed.

Why should I be ashamed when you don't believe in the Bible, yet you're trying to defend corrupted scriptures?

By the way you have proven nothing right ...because God did not say that the descendants of Ishmael need to go through circumcision ....so Muhammad was right to not make circumcision compulsory...

While God did not explicitly command circumcision for all of Ishmael's descendants, the biblical narrative in Genesis 17 does include Ishmael in the covenant of circumcision, even though it primarily focuses on the lineage of Isaac. God blessed Ishmael and promised to make him a great nation. However, the covenant of circumcision, as a sign of God's promise, was established with Abraham and his descendants through Isaac.

[pinkpanther]

Circumcision is mandatory for the followers of Jesus. The religion of Jesus made it mandatory.

Yes...it is mandatory for the Israelites...Jesus is an israelite ... gentiles are not!!

[Ali Imran]

Why should I be ashamed when you don't believe in the Bible, yet you're trying to defend corrupted scriptures?

By the way you have proven nothing right ...because God did not say that the descendants of Ishmael need to go through circumcision ....so Muhammad was right to not make circumcision compulsory...

While God did not explicitly command circumcision for all of Ishmael's descendants, the biblical narrative in Genesis 17 does include Ishmael in the covenant of circumcision, even though it primarily focuses on the lineage of Isaac. God blessed Ishmael and promised to make him a great nation. However, the covenant of circumcision, as a sign of God's promise, was established with Abraham and his descendants through Isaac.

The covenant wasn't made with Isaac. It was made with Abraham and extended to his descendants. That includes Ishmael.

[Ali Imran]

Yes...it is mandatory for the Israelites...Jesus is an israelite ... gentiles are not!!

The followers of Jesus were the Israelites.

[pinkpanther]

The covenant wasn't made with Isaac. It was made with Abraham and extended to his descendants. That includes Ishmael.

The circumcision covenant was initially made with Abraham, and was then extended to his son Isaac as part of God's promise to Abraham, according to Bible commentaries....

Circumcision, specifically Brit Milah, is a central ritual in Judaism, signifying a covenant between God and the Jewish people. It's performed on male infants eight days after birth as a religious obligation and a sign of this covenant, as described in the Torah.

[pinkpanther]

The followers of Jesus were the Israelites.

Yes...the followers are israelites but there are gentiles too..

[Ali Imran]

The circumcision covenant was initially made with Abraham, and was then extended to his son Isaac as part of God's promise to Abraham, according to Bible commentaries....

Circumcision, specifically Brit Milah, is a central ritual in Judaism, signifying a covenant between God and the Jewish people. It's performed on male infants eight days after birth as a religious obligation and a sign of this covenant, as described in the Torah.

Isaac wasn't an Israelite.

There is no initial and later. The covenant of circumcision was made with Abraham and extended to his descendants. Period.

It didn't say later that Ishmael is excluded or anything like that.

[Ali Imran]

Yes...the followers are israelites but there are gentiles too..

That was disputed. Why was there a dispute on this issue? Because of the words of Jesus being "sent only to the Israelites".

I suspect, the dispute was the reason why the author of Matthew invented that great commission verse, to include the gentiles.

[Lukongsimi]

No, Jesus did not command his followers to be circumcised. While Jesus himself was circumcised as a Jewish male, early Christian leaders, particularly Paul, argued against circumcision as a requirement for Gentile converts. The Council of Jerusalem, as recorded in Acts 15, decided that gentile Christians did not need to be circumcised. Instead, baptism became the primary outward sign of the Christian covenant.

[Lukongsimi]

Jesus did not command his followers to abstain from eating pork. While the Old Testament, specifically the Book of Leviticus, lists pork as an unclean animal and prohibits its consumption by Jewish people, Jesus, in the New Testament, is presented as declaring all foods clean.

[Ali Imran]

No, Jesus did not command his followers to be circumcised. 

Jesus did not need to command his followers to be circumcised because circumcision was already instituted long before the time of Jesus.

Jesus also said, "keep the commandments". That would include circumcision.

[Lukongsimi]

Yes, Isaac is considered one of the three main patriarchs of the Israelites, alongside his father Abraham and his son Jacob. Isaac is the son of Abraham and Sarah, and the father of Jacob and Esau

[Lukongsimi]

Jesus did not need to command his followers to be circumcised because circumcision was already instituted long before the time of Jesus.

Jesus also said, "keep the commandments". That would include circumcision.

Where?