[Lukongsimi]

there was a notable sect that rejected the Hajj pilgrimage - the Qarmatians (also known as Carmathians).

The Qarmatians were an Ismaili Shi'a sect that emerged in the late 9th century in eastern Arabia. They are known for their radical interpretation of Islam and their opposition to many mainstream Islamic practices, including the Hajj.

Key points about the Qarmatians' rejection of the Hajj:

They viewed the Hajj as a superstitious practice and rejected its spiritual significance.
In 930 CE, under the leadership of Abu Tahir al-Jannabi, they attacked Mecca during the Hajj season.
They killed many pilgrims and desecrated holy sites, including the Well of Zamzam, which they filled with corpses.
Most infamously, they stole the Black Stone from the Kaaba and took it to their stronghold in Al-Ahsa (in modern-day eastern Saudi Arabia).
They held the Black Stone for about 20 years, effectively disrupting the Hajj for that period.
The Black Stone was eventually returned in 951 CE, reportedly after a ransom was paid by the Abbasid Caliphate.
The Qarmatians' rejection of the Hajj was part of their broader criticism of what they saw as corrupt practices in mainstream Islam. However, their extreme actions and beliefs eventually led to their decline, and they largely disappeared as a significant force by the 11th century.

While the Qarmatians are the most prominent example of a sect rejecting the Hajj, there have been other, smaller groups throughout Islamic history that have questioned or rejected various aspects of the pilgrimage, though usually not as dramatically or violently as the Qarmatians.

Smaller sects include:

Ahl-e-Quran (People of the Quran): This is a movement that originated in the 19th century in South Asia. They believe in following only the Quran and reject many traditional practices, including some aspects of the Hajj as traditionally performed.

Some Sufi orders: While most Sufis accept the Hajj, some extreme mystical interpretations have led certain individuals or small groups to emphasize the "spiritual Hajj" over the physical pilgrimage.

Ahmadiyya: While they don't reject the Hajj outright, their interpretation differs from mainstream Islam. They believe that Hajj can be performed at their center in Qadian, India, in addition to Mecca.

Certain Ismaili sub-sects: Some smaller branches of Ismaili Shi'ism have, at times, interpreted the Hajj allegorically rather than literally.

Druze: While the Druze faith emerged from Ismaili Islam, they do not practice the Hajj as understood in mainstream Islam.

Nation of Islam (in its early form): Under the leadership of Elijah Muhammad, this American movement initially rejected many traditional Islamic practices, including the Hajj. However, this stance changed over time.

Some modern rationalist movements: There are small groups of Muslim "reformists" or "progressives" who argue for a reinterpretation of Islamic practices, sometimes including the Hajj.

[pinkpanther]

Below is an image of Hajj, where nearly 2 million Muslims from all corners of the world come together to answer the call from Allah. 

If we have many denominations, the Hajj would not be possible because different denominations would have different rituals, like in Christianity. 

Why did Allah allow His Holy ground to be soaked in blood annually

[Lukongsimi]

Below is an image of Hajj, where nearly 2 million Muslims from all corners of the world come together to answer the call from Allah. 

If we have many denominations, the Hajj would not be possible because different denominations would have different rituals, like in Christianity. 

No, the courtyard area surrounding the Kaaba, known as the Mataf, is not large enough to hold 2 million people simultaneously. While the Masjid al-Haram (Grand Mosque) can accommodate that many worshippers, the Kaaba itself is located within a relatively smaller circumambulation area. The Hajj pilgrimage, which involves circumambulating the Kaaba, draws millions of people, but they are accommodated within the larger mosque complex and surrounding areas. 

[pinkpanther]

The Father said He alone is God and there is no other, and I believe that. But you want me to believe that there are 2 others besides the Father. Why would you want to lead me to go against the Father?

Can Allah be the Father that you believe in?

[Lukongsimi]

Can Allah be the Father that you believe

He Elak Liao 
don’t know when coming in to continue his rebuttal lol

[pinkpanther]

Before signing off, I'd like to say that I've judged an awful lot of your viewpoints to be wrong but have chosen to respect your right to be wrong.

Yes, I also respect his right to follow the wrong path..

Why doesnt he have the courage to respond to your posts... it’s quite rude of him and not characteristic of someone with good manners.

[pinkpanther]

The moslems were condemned by God , they are under a curse and their prayers are rejected , they did worse than the jews

https://youtube.com/shorts/B8vx1eYwWkA?s...wgHLTHTeGy

[Ali Imran]

Can Allah be the Father that you believe in?

We are talking about the One true God, aren't we?

[Ali Imran]

The moslems were condemned by God , they are under a curse and their prayers are rejected , they did worse than the jews

Really?

Are we commanded to kill women, children, and suckling infants? The answer is no.

Did we drop nuclear bombs on civilians? The answer is no.

[Ali Imran]

there was a notable sect that rejected the Hajj pilgrimage - the Qarmatians (also known as Carmathians).

The Qarmatians were an Ismaili Shi'a sect that emerged in the late 9th century in eastern Arabia. They are known for their radical interpretation of Islam and their opposition to many mainstream Islamic practices, including the Hajj.

Key points about the Qarmatians' rejection of the Hajj:

They viewed the Hajj as a superstitious practice and rejected its spiritual significance.
In 930 CE, under the leadership of Abu Tahir al-Jannabi, they attacked Mecca during the Hajj season.
They killed many pilgrims and desecrated holy sites, including the Well of Zamzam, which they filled with corpses.
Most infamously, they stole the Black Stone from the Kaaba and took it to their stronghold in Al-Ahsa (in modern-day eastern Saudi Arabia).
They held the Black Stone for about 20 years, effectively disrupting the Hajj for that period.
The Black Stone was eventually returned in 951 CE, reportedly after a ransom was paid by the Abbasid Caliphate.
The Qarmatians' rejection of the Hajj was part of their broader criticism of what they saw as corrupt practices in mainstream Islam. However, their extreme actions and beliefs eventually led to their decline, and they largely disappeared as a significant force by the 11th century.

While the Qarmatians are the most prominent example of a sect rejecting the Hajj, there have been other, smaller groups throughout Islamic history that have questioned or rejected various aspects of the pilgrimage, though usually not as dramatically or violently as the Qarmatians.

Smaller sects include:

Ahl-e-Quran (People of the Quran): This is a movement that originated in the 19th century in South Asia. They believe in following only the Quran and reject many traditional practices, including some aspects of the Hajj as traditionally performed.

Some Sufi orders: While most Sufis accept the Hajj, some extreme mystical interpretations have led certain individuals or small groups to emphasize the "spiritual Hajj" over the physical pilgrimage.

Ahmadiyya: While they don't reject the Hajj outright, their interpretation differs from mainstream Islam. They believe that Hajj can be performed at their center in Qadian, India, in addition to Mecca.

Certain Ismaili sub-sects: Some smaller branches of Ismaili Shi'ism have, at times, interpreted the Hajj allegorically rather than literally.

Druze: While the Druze faith emerged from Ismaili Islam, they do not practice the Hajj as understood in mainstream Islam.

Nation of Islam (in its early form): Under the leadership of Elijah Muhammad, this American movement initially rejected many traditional Islamic practices, including the Hajj. However, this stance changed over time.

Some modern rationalist movements: There are small groups of Muslim "reformists" or "progressives" who argue for a reinterpretation of Islamic practices, sometimes including the Hajj.

Yes, there are small fringe groups within the Islamic world that have strange beliefs, and the majority of Muslims, 95% of the population, reject them.

[pinkpanther]

We are talking about the One true God, aren't we?

The Father is the one true God isnt it..

Can Allah be the Father that you believe in?

[Ali Imran]

The Father is the one true God isnt it..

Can Allah be the Father that you believe in?

The one true God is referred to as the Father in the NT and Allah in the Quran.

[pinkpanther]

Really?

Are we commanded to kill women, children, and suckling infants? The answer is no.

Did we drop nuclear bombs on civilians? The answer is no.

Really? Which religion killed the family and children of Muhammad?

yes, you did not drop nuclear bombs on civilians because you and your arab nations would rather sit and watch for the sufferings to happen then complain that it is the fault of someone else

[pinkpanther]

The one true God is referred to as the Father in the NT and Allah in the Quran.

You tell me since you said you are worshipping the Father? Did Quran refer to Allah as The Father

[Ali Imran]

Really? Which religion killed the family and children of Muhammad?

yes, you did not drop nuclear bombs on civilians because you and your arab nations would rather sit and watch for the sufferings to happen then complain that it is the fault of someone else

Now you're accusing me without any proof. How do you know "I would rather sit and watch for the sufferings to happen"?

[Ali Imran]

You tell me since you said you are worshipping the Father? Did Quran refer to Allah as The Father

I already told you.

The one true God is referred to as the Father in the NT and Allah in the Quran.

[pinkpanther]

Now you're accusing me without any proof. How do you know "I would rather sit and watch for the sufferings to happen"?

You ownself said you yourself can do nothing..because the government does not approve your foolishness

Even if you donate to the Palestinians..how do you know it doesn't go to the pockets of hamas

[pinkpanther]

I already told you.

The one true God is referred to as the Father in the NT and Allah in the Quran.

OK let's go with that
So the Father is the same as Allah according to you right? It is a simple question since Allah mentioned the Christians are under his authority

[Ali Imran]

You ownself said you yourself can do nothing..because the government does not approve your foolishness

Even if you donate to the Palestinians..how do you know it doesn't go to the pockets of hamas

Your accusation says I would rather sit and watch.

Do you want to take that back?

[Ali Imran]

OK let's go with that
So the Father is the same as Allah according to you right? It is a simple question since Allah mentioned the Christians are under his authority

There is only 1 God.

According to the NT, Jesus referred to the one true God as the Father. In the Quran, the one true God is Allah.

[pinkpanther]

Your accusation says I would rather sit and watch.

Do you want to take that back?

No..because you have showed no evidences!

Aren't you still in Malang?

[cheekopekman]

We are the same because we both believe in God, the hereafter, the angels, the prophets, the revelations. 

But we differ in our understanding of who God is. My understanding of who God is matches the verses in Isaiah and the teachings of Jesus and other biblical prophets. Your understanding of who God is came about 300 years after Jesus ascended.

I'm preparing myself to study the Book of Acts soon lah!  So I'll share with you what I will learn from my Bible teacher lah!

[Ali Imran]

No..because you have showed no evidences!

Even after I told you that I am very willing to go and defend the Palestinians if the government allows me?

[pinkpanther]

There is only 1 God.

According to the NT, Jesus referred to the one true God as the Father. In the Quran, the one true God is Allah.

So are they the same one God?

[pinkpanther]

Even after I told you that I am very willing to go and defend the Palestinians if the government allows me?

I don believe you will do that!! It is easier to say you will do something but end up doing the exact opposite.....

You and your family will be condemned for supporting the terrorists by the gov and maybe a small group of activists will support your case..

Are you willing to take that gamble?

[Ali Imran]

So are they the same one God?

There is only 1 God. So yes, the God of Jesus is the same one.

[Ali Imran]

I don believe you will do that!! It is easier to say you will do something but end up doing the exact opposite.....

You and your family will be condemned for supporting the terrorists by the gov and maybe a small group of activists will support your case..

Are you willing to take that gamble?

You accused the millions of Arabs, and I would rather sit and watch. 

Do you want to take back that accusation? If you don't take it back, your integrity is at stake.

[cheekopekman]

Even after I told you that I am very willing to go and defend the Palestinians if the government allows me?

Malaysian Muslims are very pro-Palestinian lah!  You want to join them?

[pinkpanther]

There is only 1 God. So yes, the God of Jesus is the same one.

So the Father is the same God as Allah? Can you confirm?

[Ali Imran]

So the Father is the same God as Allah? Can you confirm?

Yes.