[pinkpanther]

The things Muh did are recorded in the hadith.  You take offence and call that insulting?  You say you don't insult Mary and Jesus.  Eew...it's not that you don't insult them, and you said that it's for fear of punishment.  Boo sheet! You have nothing to insult them with because they did not do all the things Muh did.

Before we can accept that Muh is a man of God, we need to see his life, what he did. If you want a gentlemen's discussion, you cannot say, let's not examine Muh's life and let's put the hadith away, and just believe whatever he said. And when Ali kept mocking and taunting even though he also kept denying it, it did nothing to endear peepurr to Islam which he claimed to be representing. 

Why don't you watch the video I posted and tell me which parts of it are lies?  If you do that, I will take it that you are sincere, not here to mock, and really want to help us, including readers out there, and if you can prove what you write, I will become a Moslem.  You will not convert anyone by mocking and taunting or simply telling us that we should not believe the bible, or sneer and say "You guys can't even agree bla bla bla"....

Yes ...go through the video, rebuke the false claims because the speaker is not mocking, he is merely presenting his findings! This way we can learn and come to a mutual understanding!

Everyday mock and taunt also useless tiok boh!

[Hope]

In your prayers...pls also pay thanks to the great China man zhenghe!
The reason why you are a Muslim in this part of the world is partly due to his efforts in spreading Islam!

Tamīm Ad-Dāri reported: I heard the Messenger of Allah say: "Indeed, this religion will reach everywhere the night and day can reach. Allah will not leave a dwelling in a city or a desert except that He will make this religion enter it, thus, honoring the honorable or humiliating the humiliated; an honor which Allah will bestow on Islam, and a humiliation which Allah will inflict on disbelief."


Allah will reward zhenghe a palace in highest heaven

[pinkpanther]

Tamīm Ad-Dāri reported: I heard the Messenger of Allah say: "Indeed, this religion will reach everywhere the night and day can reach. Allah will not leave a dwelling in a city or a desert except that He will make this religion enter it, thus, honoring the honorable or humiliating the humiliated; an honor which Allah will bestow on Islam, and a humiliation which Allah will inflict on disbelief."

Just because I choose not to believe...Allah will humiliate me?
Hmm....I thought some one says before Allah gives you the free will to choose?

[luncheonmeat]

God decree punishment in this world to stop others doing it.

As per your logic can  we forgive our minister?give him a second chance?

In Sinpwn, if the ministars broke the law of the land, they will be required to undergo the sentencing. Ask Iswaran. 
In bolehland, it would depend on how powerful the ministar is. Ask Najib. 
Whether you want to give the incumbent another shot at running the country is up to the individual. This has nothing to do with 'forgiveness', unless they have somehow sinned against you, in which case, you would be considering whether to bor mata, not whether to vote for him. 

During the time before Christ, only God could forgive sinners for breaking his laws [of course there was still the matter of making offerings for their offences].

During Jesus' time, the Jewish authorities were scandalised and accused Jesus of blasphemy when he forgave the sins of the repentent since no one had this power except God. Who and what gave Jesus the power to forgive sinners? Ans. God who had sent Jesus to die for our sins.
.

[pinkpanther]

In Sinpwn, if the ministars broke the law of the land, they will be required to undergo the sentencing. Ask Iswaran. 
In bolehland, it would depend on how powerful the ministar is. Ask Najib. 
Whether you want to give the incumbent another shot at running the country is up to the individual. This has nothing to do with 'forgiveness', unless they have somehow sinned against you, in which case, you would be considering whether to bor mata, not whether to vote for him. 

During the time before Christ, only God could forgive sinners for breaking his laws [of course there was still the matter of making offerings for their offences].

During Jesus' time, the Jewish authorities were scandalised and accused Jesus of blasphemy when he forgave the sins of the repentent since no one had this power except God. Who and what gave Jesus the power to forgive sinners? Ans. God who had sent Jesus to die for our sins.
.

The “right hand” is seen as a place of honor and status throughout the biblical text. When the Bible makes statements that Jesus Christ sits at the right hand of the Father, it is affirming that he has equal status to the Father within the Godhead (Hebrews 1:3, 12:2; 1 Peter 3:22; Acts 7:55-56).

[cheekopekman]

You met Ali before...is he skinny as he claim? He got hard sell Islam to you?

No lah, never!  Don't know how he looks like also lah!

[Oyk]

In your prayers...pls also pay thanks to the great China man zhenghe!
The reason why you are a Muslim in this part of the world is partly due to his efforts in spreading Islam!

I have been to the old mosque in Guangzhou.  It was built five years before Muh died.  That's how old the mosque is.  Islam arrived in China long before the Malays here even heard of Muh.  The mosque looks more like a Chinese Taoist temple than what we see in Singapore.

[pinkpanther]

No lah, never!  Don't know how he looks like also lah!

Not you ah  I thought he met up with you over kopi!
You lucky!

[pinkpanther]

I have been to the old mosque in Guangzhou.  It was built five years before Muh died.  That's how old the mosque is.  Islam arrived in China long before the Malays here even heard of Muh.  The mosque looks more like a Chinese Taoist temple than what we see in Singapore.

No Arabic writings on the pillars leh! This is the great grand father of all mosques.
China has more mosques than churches....but only limited to xinjiang areas!

[Oyk]

Just because I choose not to believe...Allah will humiliate me?
Hmm....I thought some one says before Allah gives you the free will to choose?

[cheekopekman]

I can just imagine that they throw a family of maybe 4 into the den to fight those hungry lions! No chance! We humans throw punch..the lions don feel pain,  once they bite our neck....that's it...never let go liao!

Go and see those lions in Singapore Zoo lah!  They are all well fed by those zookeepers lah! They stand far away let you take pictures lah! But those lions in Rome were very hungry lah! You are food for them lah! Lunch time!

[Oyk]

No Arabic writings on the pillars leh! This is the great grand father of all mosques.
China has more mosques than churches....but only limited to xinjiang areas!

Old Chinese Muslim manuscripts say the mosque was built in 627 by Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas, a Companion of the Prophet who supposedly came on to China in the 620s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huaisheng_...rnal_links

It's the oldest mosque in China, built in Guangzhou. But it was rebuilt many taims because as you can see, the materials used were not steel and concrete.  Old technology using wood and what not...could not survive the elements over centuries.

 Xinjiang is only how CCP calls it, that place is actually Eastern Turkestan.  The peepur there don't even look like Chinese.  The other territories which the CCP colonised or somehow got hold of are Tibet, Inner Mongolia and arguably Dongbei which was Manchuria.

[pinkpanther]

Go and see those lions in Singapore Zoo lah!  They are all well fed by those zookeepers lah! They stand far away let you take pictures lah! But those lions in Rome were very hungry lah! You are food for them lah! Lunch time!

If you can survive the day lock up with them....consider lucky liao...at night different story liao...cannot see cannot sleep..just counting the seconds only!

[Oyk]

No Arabic writings on the pillars leh! This is the great grand father of all mosques.
China has more mosques than churches....but only limited to xinjiang areas!

I have also been to Xian where the Terracotta Warriors were buried.  I went down the grave to see lots and lots of them but I suspect those were replicas...very likely to be.  The Chinese government would likely have kept the originals in a special place to prevent further damage due to the air and whatnot.

Xian is also a place where you can find a lot of Chinese Moslems.    Those are Huis (not a Han like me).  I remember walking down a typical old Chinese street with a long row of stalls selling halal food.  Ali and Hope would be able to eat those if they went to China.

Lanzhou which is famous for its beef noodles 兰州拉面 is another city with lots of Moslems.

[pinkpanther]

Old Chinese Muslim manuscripts say the mosque was built in 627 by Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas, a Companion of the Prophet who supposedly came on to China in the 620s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huaisheng_...rnal_links

It's the oldest mosque in China, built in Guangzhou. But it was rebuilt many taims because as you can see, the materials used were not steel and concrete.  Old technology using wood and what not...could not survive the elements over centuries.

 Xinjiang is only how CCP calls it, that place is actually Eastern Turkestan.  The peepur there don't even look like Chinese.  The other territories which the CCP colonised or somehow got hold of are Tibet, Inner Mongolia and arguably Dongbei which was Manchuria.

I just mentioned Sa'id ibn abi Waqqas in the afternoon...I bet ali and hope did not know he actually went to China to spread Islam! The Camel can really take him that far 

[pinkpanther]

I have also been to Xian where the Terracotta Warriors were buried.  I went down the grave to see lots and lots of them but I suspect those were replicas...very likely to be.  The Chinese government would likely have kept the originals in a special place to prevent further damage due to the air and whatnot.

Xian is also a place where you can find a lot of Chinese Moslems.    Those are Huis (not a Han like me).  I remember walking down a typical old Chinese street with a long row of stalls selling halal food.  Ali and Hope would be able to eat those if they went to China.

Lanzhou which is famous for its beef noodles 兰州拉面 is another city with lots of Moslems.

Lucky Islam didn't spread rapidly...or else our forefathers will take up that songkok liao
And our destiny would pretty much be sealed!

[Hope]

Just because I choose not to believe...Allah will humiliate me?
Hmm....I thought some one says before Allah gives you the free will to choose?

You have free will to choose.you also have to face the judgement and punishment.

[Oyk]

You cannot see my face so you cannot say I am sneering. Please try to give me the benefit of the doubt.

There can never be one Bible because the early Christians cannot agree among themselves which books were authoritative and should be in the Bible. 

When they found the Codex Sinaiticus, they read a different Bible containing different books.

I'm not mocking. I'm telling you straight. Christians cannot agree on which books should be in the Bible, till today.

And you will tell me the Apocryphal?

I said already, Satan is trying to confuse.  All the confusion and arguments and even killings are caused by him.  You can't see?

Satan wants to lead peepur away from the One True God who is I AM.  He wants peepur to say that Jesus did not die, they don't need Jesus anyway, and they can go directly to God, and God will forgive their sin, and whoosh! into heaven they go after that.

And on that Day, those peepur will be shocked to find out that without Christ's Death, they did not have the forgiveness of Sin.

For through one man, Adam, Death came into the world, but through one man, the Lord Jesus Christ, Death is taken away because the penalty for Sin which is Death had been paid for once and for all time!! Hallelujah!  

Without Christ's Death, the penalty would be outstanding, and we would all be in serious trouble!  For God loves us so much, He was not willing that any should die.  God did something which outwitted the Devil.  He sent Jesus to die for us, and then raised Jesus from the dead.  Satan lost.

Now, Satan knows the world is coming to an End very soon.  He is running out of time and desperate.  He confuses.  He has peepur teaching false doctrines.  We must be careful and hold fast to God's Word and not be misled.  There will be false prophets and I shall not mention names.  We already have false preachers in Singapore...no need to go to the US to find out.  That's as much as I can say, without going to jail.

[Oyk]

Lucky Islam didn't spread rapidly...or else our forefathers will take up that songkok liao
And our destiny would pretty much be sealed!

The Moslem women in China also covered up like Malay women here.

[Oyk]

I just mentioned Sa'id ibn abi Waqqas in the afternoon...I bet ali and hope did not know he actually went to China to spread Islam! The Camel can really take him that far 

If you read on, this is what the article says...

Although modern secular scholars do not find any historical evidence that Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas actually visited China,[10] they agree that the first Muslims must have arrived to China within the 7th century,[10] and that the major trade centers, such as Guangzhou, Quanzhou, and Yangzhou, probably already had their first mosques built during the Tang dynasty, even though no reliable sources attesting to their actual existence has been found so far.[9][n 2]

[pinkpanther]

If you read on, this is what the article says...

Although modern secular scholars do not find any historical evidence that Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas actually visited China,[10] they agree that the first Muslims must have arrived to China within the 7th century,[10] and that the major trade centers, such as Guangzhou, Quanzhou, and Yangzhou, probably already had their first mosques built during the Tang dynasty, even though no reliable sources attesting to their actual existence has been found so far.[9][n 2]

Sa'id sure spread Islam...no reason to go there for holiday or eat the mala hotpot. 
Maybe barter trade....they need paper,rice and noodles!...

[pinkpanther]

The Moslem women in China also covered up like Malay women here.

Strange to see Muslim women speak mandarin! You ask them to speak melayu or Arabic...they sure don know! I always find it strange to see them eat rice using hands...very similar to Indians...they also eat using bare hands! Any connection to their religion?

Is there a technique?

[Ali Imran]

And you will tell me the Apocryphal?

I said already, Satan is trying to confuse.  All the confusion and arguments and even killings are caused by him.  You can't see?

Satan wants to lead peepur away from the One True God who is I AM.  He wants peepur to say that Jesus did not die, they don't need Jesus anyway, and they can go directly to God, and God will forgive their sin, and whoosh! into heaven they go after that.

And on that Day, those peepur will be shocked to find out that without Christ's Death, they did not have the forgiveness of Sin.

For through one man, Adam, Death came into the world, but through one man, the Lord Jesus Christ, Death is taken away because the penalty for Sin which is Death had been paid for once and for all time!! Hallelujah!  

Without Christ's Death, the penalty would be outstanding, and we would all be in serious trouble!  For God loves us so much, He was not willing that any should die.  God did something which outwitted the Devil.  He sent Jesus to die for us, and then raised Jesus from the dead.  Satan lost.

Now, Satan knows the world is coming to an End very soon.  He is running out of time and desperate.  He confuses.  He has peepur teaching false doctrines.  We must be careful and hold fast to God's Word and not be misled.  There will be false prophets and I shall not mention names.  We already have false preachers in Singapore...no need to go to the US to find out.  That's as much as I can say, without going to jail.

I have a different picture. The confusion started the moment Jesus began his ministry. Remember the "Who do people say that I am?" found in Mark 8? That shows people were confused about who Jesus was. The confusion was exacerbated by Jesus abrupt departure, the rumors surrounding the crucifixion, and Jesus's reappearance. 

We also know of the writings from other early Christians who don't hold the same belief you do, like the Ebionites. 

To say the confusion was caused by satan is not that accurate but you do have a point. One early Christian said Jesus is God and another early Christian said Jesus is not God. Which side is satan on? You know my answer, surely.

[pinkpanther]

Jesus is Israelite who came to teach children of Isreal (Jacob/yaqoob)

Did you learn aramaic to understand the original bible?
Or did you learn at least Greek?
How did you understand the bible ?

Sorry...Jesus did not specifically ask us to master aramaic or Greek to pray for him hor!

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


 Quran 41:44.


And if We had appointed it a Lecture in a foreign tongue they would assuredly have said: If only its verses were expounded (so that we might understand)? What! A foreign tongue and an Arab? - Say unto them (O Muhammad): For those who believe it is a guidance and a healing; and as for those who disbelieve, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness for them. Such are called to from afar.

Like every other book to understand one has to know the language.

[Ali Imran]

Having a flawless quran does not necessary equate to the truth!
Is the hadith flawless?

You said something true. Even if we agree the Quran is flawless, that doesn't mean it is from God or telling the truth. You are correct.

[Hope]

And you will tell me the Apocryphal?

I said already, Satan is trying to confuse.  All the confusion and arguments and even killings are caused by him.  You can't see?

Satan wants to lead peepur away from the One True God who is I AM.  He wants peepur to say that Jesus did not die, they don't need Jesus anyway, and they can go directly to God, and God will forgive their sin, and whoosh! into heaven they go after that.

And on that Day, those peepur will be shocked to find out that without Christ's Death, they did not have the forgiveness of Sin.

For through one man, Adam, Death came into the world, but through one man, the Lord Jesus Christ, Death is taken away because the penalty for Sin which is Death had been paid for once and for all time!! Hallelujah!  

Without Christ's Death, the penalty would be outstanding, and we would all be in serious trouble!  For God loves us so much, He was not willing that any should die.  God did something which outwitted the Devil.  He sent Jesus to die for us, and then raised Jesus from the dead.  Satan lost.

Now, Satan knows the world is coming to an End very soon.  He is running out of time and desperate.  He confuses.  He has peepur teaching false doctrines.  We must be careful and hold fast to God's Word and not be misled.  There will be false prophets and I shall not mention names.  We already have false preachers in Singapore...no need to go to the US to find out.  That's as much as I can say, without going to jail.

How did Jesus say I AM in Aramaic?

[pinkpanther]

You said something true. Even if we agree the Quran is flawless, that doesn't mean it is from God or telling the truth. You are correct.

Ali...are my eyes playing tricks on me?? Or am I sensing some sarcasm from you!

[Ali Imran]

Say unto them (O Muhammad): For those who believe it is a guidance and a healing; and as for those who disbelieve, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness for them. Such are called to from afar.

We kept telling you that it is not difficult to understand the Quran and we can be sure what it means if we have doubts by referring to scholars and scholars cannot bluff us because we have the original words still intact. You quoted it without noticing what it says. 

That verse says, it is for us to derive guidance from it and healing. I can understand all the guidance in the Quran. I recite the Quran and it heals my heart. Because I am a believer and I can attest to that verse you quoted. 

I can also attest to the truthfulness of that verse when it describes you.

[Ali Imran]

Ali...are my eyes playing tricks on me?? Or am I sensing some sarcasm from you!

No, its not sarcasm.

To add on, if we flip the premise of your argument, meaning, if we agree the Quran has clear errors or contradictions, then it cannot be from God, correct?

[Hope]

Sorry...Jesus did not specifically ask us to master aramaic or Greek to pray for him hor!

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


 Quran 41:44.


And if We had appointed it a Lecture in a foreign tongue they would assuredly have said: If only its verses were expounded (so that we might understand)? What! A foreign tongue and an Arab? - Say unto them (O Muhammad): For those who believe it is a guidance and a healing; and as for those who disbelieve, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness for them. Such are called to from afar.

Like every other book to understand one has to know the language.

If you can understand your bible in English,You will definitely understand Quran in English.

Please find correct verse.


Quran 41:44 “And if We had made it a non-Arabic Qur'an, they would have said, "Why are its verses not explained in detail [in our language]? Is it a foreign [recitation] and an Arab [messenger]?" Say, "It is, for those who believe, a guidance and cure." And those who do not believe - in their ears is deafness, and it is upon them blindness. Those are being called from a distant place.