[cheekopekman]

Blind people can see a clearer path!

The blind leads the blind and both will fall into the drain lah!

[pinkpanther]

If Christianity is true, Islam is false. And vice versa. I'm sure you will agree.

Aren't you interested to know which is true or false?

For your info...the hadiths for Sunnis and shias were late for reporting...meaning they were at least 2-300 yrs late....you want to go by the word of mouth? From imams to imams to unknown?  There were no credible records to show as well!

Some Muslims prefer not to use the hadith....I think in your very earliest posts...you refuted the accuracies of the hadiths

[Lukongsimi]

Why I have a feeling as though a lady in her line of work is trying to get me to patronise? 

U got to pay a price u know..lol

[pinkpanther]

U got to pay a price u know..lol

I can arrange a mutah with him 

[Lukongsimi]

I can arrange a mutah with him 

Live with an enemy temporarily also risky ..lol

[pinkpanther]

Shame my beliefs? 

Have you succeeded so far?

Your profit exploited the weaker sex,give them close to no rights, make female captives as whores and sell them as he pleased...and you are proud of that? I think you have no morality if you agree fully with your profit!

I can quote the quran and hadith and bury you!

[Ali Imran]

Your profit exploited the weaker sex,give them close to no rights, make female captives as whores and sell them as he pleased...and you are proud of that? I think you have no morality if you agree fully with your profit!

I can quote the quran and hadith and bury you!

I think I've posted that meme of one learned guy who was ashamed of the lies being propagated from the West about our prophet. I'm clear that you have bought those lies and are propagating them here. 

I also know you know next to nothing about our prophet so your opinion is not worthy of a rebuttal.

[Ali Imran]

For your info...the hadiths for Sunnis and shias were late for reporting...meaning they were at least 2-300 yrs late....you want to go by the word of mouth? From imams to imams to unknown?  There were no credible records to show as well!

Some Muslims prefer not to use the hadith....I think in your very earliest posts...you refuted the accuracies of the hadiths

I am not a Hadith scholar. I know very little about Hadith but the little I know is a mountain standing next to your molehill.

Any historians would take our Sahih Hadith as historical records to determine a historical event. All the Gospels put together can only give them clues, not records. For records of events, historians need to turn to Josephus, whose writings came close to being historical records. Is there a Gospel according to Josephus? No, there isn't any.

[Ali Imran]

Why I have a feeling as though a lady in her line of work is trying to get me to patronise? 

If you have the truth, you will be able to explain it. But so far, you have not been able to explain it. You just point to the Bible and declare it the word of God as though the answers to my questions can be found in there.

[pinkpanther]

I am not a Hadith scholar. I know very little about Hadith but the little I know is a mountain standing next to your molehill.

Any historians would take our Sahih Hadith as historical records to determine a historical event. All the Gospels put together can only give them clues, not records. For records of events, historians need to turn to Josephus, whose writings came close to being historical records. Is there a Gospel according to Josephus? No, there isn't any.

What you should go research is this? Did jesus die on the cross since you moslem don believe!

In addition to the Bible, there are non-Christian ancient sources which tell us that crucifixion is how Jesus died. These include Josephus, Tacitus, and Lucian.
https://renew.org/the-historical-evidenc...er-part-3/

historical accounts and some scientific evidence suggest that it did take place and that it was a brutal and painful form of execution.2
https://scienceforthechurch.org/2023/03/...rspective/

Scholars generally consider the Tacitus reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate to be genuine, and of historical value as an independent Roman source. Eddy and Boyd state that it is now "firmly established" that Tacitus provides a non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.

[pinkpanther]

If you have the truth, you will be able to explain it. But so far, you have not been able to explain it. You just point to the Bible and declare it the word of God as though the answers to my questions can be found in there.

You know who is not able to judge from good and evil doings? The blinds and the born retards! I don need to show you any proof!  Does it make sense to follow one who exploits the weak? Ali..I believe you have a heart far greater than your profit!

[Ali Imran]

Scholars generally consider the Tacitus reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate to be genuine, and of historical value as an independent Roman source. Eddy and Boyd state that it is now "firmly established" that Tacitus provides a non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.

We were comparing the reliability of the Hadith and the Gospels as historical documents. Historians today can accept our Sahih Hadith as reliable historical documents but they cannot trust the Gospels as reliable historical documents.

As I've said, historians would rather rely on the writings of Josephus and Tacitus than the Gospels. Why?

[Ali Imran]

You know who is not able to judge from good and evil doings? The blinds and the born retards! I don need to show you any proof!  Does it make sense to following one who exploits the weak? Ali..I believe you have a heart far greater than your profit!

Anyone who exploits the weak will find their place in hell in the hereafter.

When people say they don't need to show any proof, that means they have no proof.

[pinkpanther]

Anyone who exploits the weak will find their place in hell in the hereafter.

When people say they don't need to show any proof, that means they have no proof.

That's the place where your profit will be heading! I have already said enough of your profit back up with hadiths and quran! If I am a atheist and I need a choose btw Jesus and muh...I will study their characters and historical background!

And one day I come across this

The Prophet (ﷺ) continued for such-and-such period imagining that he has slept (had sexual relations) with his wives, and in fact he did not. One day he said, to me, "O `Aisha! Allah has instructed me regarding a matter about which I had asked Him. There came to me two men, one of them sat near my feet and the other near my head. The one near my feet, asked the one near my head (pointing at me), 'What is wrong with this man? The latter replied, 'He is under the effect of magic.' The first one asked, 'Who had worked magic on him?' The other replied, 'Lubaid bin Asam.' The first one asked, 'What material (did he use)?' The other replied, 'The skin of the pollen of a male date tree with a comb and the hair stuck to it, kept under a stone in the well of Dharwan."' Then the Prophet (ﷺ) went to that well and said, "This is the same well which was shown to me in the dream. The tops of its date-palm trees look like the heads of the devils, and its water looks like the Henna infusion." Then the Prophet (ﷺ) ordered that those things be taken out. I said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Won't you disclose (the magic object)?" The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Allah has cured me and I hate to circulate the evil among the people." `Aisha added, "(The magician) Lubaid bin Asam was a man from Bani Zuraiq, an ally of the Jews."

There are more atrocities which I will not mention! Tsk!

[Lukongsimi]

If you have the truth, you will be able to explain it. But so far, you have not been able to explain it. You just point to the Bible and declare it the word of God as though the answers to my questions can be found in there.

Adam and Eve fell into sin why?
Because they had eaten the fruit of knowledge of good and evil which is supposed not to eat commanded by God

[pinkpanther]

We were comparing the reliability of the Hadith and the Gospels as historical documents. Historians today can accept our Sahih Hadith as reliable historical documents but they cannot trust the Gospels as reliable historical documents.

As I've said, historians would rather rely on the writings of Josephus and Tacitus than the Gospels. Why?

You make a claim...pls show proof!
I showed proof that scholars and even historians agree that jesus died on the cross...
You showed nothingķ

[Ali Imran]

That's the place where your profit will be heading! I have already said enough of your profit back up with hadiths and quran! If I am a atheist and I need a choose btw Jesus and muh...I will study their characters and historical background!

And one day I come across this

The Prophet (ﷺ) continued for such-and-such period imagining that he has slept (had sexual relations) with his wives, and in fact he did not. One day he said, to me, "O `Aisha! Allah has instructed me regarding a matter about which I had asked Him. There came to me two men, one of them sat near my feet and the other near my head. The one near my feet, asked the one near my head (pointing at me), 'What is wrong with this man? The latter replied, 'He is under the effect of magic.' The first one asked, 'Who had worked magic on him?' The other replied, 'Lubaid bin Asam.' The first one asked, 'What material (did he use)?' The other replied, 'The skin of the pollen of a male date tree with a comb and the hair stuck to it, kept under a stone in the well of Dharwan."' Then the Prophet (ﷺ) went to that well and said, "This is the same well which was shown to me in the dream. The tops of its date-palm trees look like the heads of the devils, and its water looks like the Henna infusion." Then the Prophet (ﷺ) ordered that those things be taken out. I said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Won't you disclose (the magic object)?" The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Allah has cured me and I hate to circulate the evil among the people." `Aisha added, "(The magician) Lubaid bin Asam was a man from Bani Zuraiq, an ally of the Jews."

There are more atrocities which I will not mention! Tsk!

It should be big coz it's a big word for you. 

So far, all I've seen are cherry-picking from you. If you have studied, you would not be making allegations about our prophet.

[Ali Imran]

You make a claim...pls show proof!
I showed proof that scholars and even historians agree that jesus died on the cross...
You showed nothingķ

The proof is in the Gospels. The stories don't match. How to trust the Gospels to be reliable? 

Even you brought in non-Christian sources to prove the crucifixion.

[pinkpanther]

It should be big coz it's a big word for you. 

So far, all I've seen are cherry-picking from you. If you have studied, you would not be making allegations about our prophet.

I will study one for you ...open your eyes big big and take a look

Islam doesn't have a minimum age for marriage, an infant girl can be married. The issue of age is when it comes to penetration & most clerics say that 9 years old is old enough because of Muh's example he set with Aisha. What's worse is that aside from penetration a man can do almost anything else he wants sexually to his wife at any age. 

Shaytan can do no more worse than this....haiya..what's wrong with the Muslim mind?

[pinkpanther]

The proof is in the Gospels. The stories don't match. How to trust the Gospels to be reliable? 

Even you brought in non-Christian sources to prove the crucifixion.

If I brought in Christian sauces you say I kelong!  A sauce is better than no sauce...
If you have no sauce to prove that the Gospels are unreliable....pls lepak one corner!

[Oyk]

If you're asking me if the Quran is from satan then you already got your answer.

Let's recap.

I said that either Paul or Muh is right. They can't both be right because Pauline doctrine says that Jesus is God and Muh needed Him while Muh's doctrine is that he didn't need Jesus who was merely a lower ranking prophet compared with himself.

I am asking you to show me some Qur'anic verses but you didn't. You just alleged that Muh's doctrine is not from Satan which leaves even a ten year old girl in no doubt that you are saying that the teachings of Paul are satanic. Do you wish to say otherwise, that nope, Paul's teachings are from God? Please reply to the question before you do more twists and turns. 

[Oyk]

I will study one for you ...open your eyes big big and take a look

Islam doesn't have a minimum age for marriage, an infant girl can be married. The issue of age is when it comes to penetration & most clerics say that 9 years old is old enough because of Muh's example he set with Aisha. What's worse is that aside from penetration a man can do almost anything else he wants sexually to his wife at any age. 

Shaytan can do no more worse than this....haiya..what's wrong with the Muslim mind?

That means a Moslem cannot piak his six year old wife but he can use his paws to rubba rubba her private parts? He can even strip himself and expose his erect ranjiao to her?

Ali, may I know if these are true?

[Oyk]

I have absolutely no idea. I don't need to learn that because it has no bearing on my life, my religion, and my salvation. 

If I ask you about the Trinity, that has a lot to do with your religion and your salvation. If the Trinity is false, you are guilty of the very first commandment, the foremost of them all, the very one you don't want to get wrong, trust me.

Did I see the word salvation?

You once said that you HOPE you will go to heaven because you can't be sure you will be found good enough to enter.  Do you remember you said that before?

[Ali Imran]

Did I see the word salvation?

You once said that you HOPE you will go to heaven because you can't be sure you will be found good enough to enter.  Do you remember you said that before?

No, I don't remember saying that.

Btw, we will never be good enough to deserve Paradise.

[Ali Imran]

Let's recap.

I said that either Paul or Muh is right. They can't both be right because Pauline doctrine says that Jesus is God and Muh needed Him while Muh's doctrine is that he didn't need Jesus who was merely a lower ranking prophet compared with himself.

I am asking you to show me some Qur'anic verses but you didn't. You just alleged that Muh's doctrine is not from Satan which leaves even a ten year old girl in no doubt that you are saying that the teachings of Paul are satanic. Do you wish to say otherwise, that nope, Paul's teachings are from God? Please reply to the question before you do more twists and turns. 

I've no idea where Paul got his ideas from but I believe it is not from God or Jesus, for obvious reasons. I'll give you another reason. God's message to mankind has been consistent throughout biblical times and even before. The change in course in Paul's message is truly radical. That's another reason why I don't believe Paul's message was from God or Jesus.

[Ali Imran]

Let's recap.

I said that either Paul or Muh is right. They can't both be right because Pauline doctrine says that Jesus is God and Muh needed Him while Muh's doctrine is that he didn't need Jesus who was merely a lower ranking prophet compared with himself.

I am asking you to show me some Qur'anic verses but you didn't. You just alleged that Muh's doctrine is not from Satan which leaves even a ten year old girl in no doubt that you are saying that the teachings of Paul are satanic. Do you wish to say otherwise, that nope, Paul's teachings are from God? Please reply to the question before you do more twists and turns. 

The message brought by our prophet is consistent with the previous prophets. What is the message? There is only 1 God, and there will be judgment day. Worship God alone, obey his commandments, and seek his repentance so that we may be saved. That is the message brought by the biblical prophets and the last prophet.

[Ali Imran]

I will study one for you ...open your eyes big big and take a look

Islam doesn't have a minimum age for marriage, an infant girl can be married. The issue of age is when it comes to penetration & most clerics say that 9 years old is old enough because of Muh's example he set with Aisha. What's worse is that aside from penetration a man can do almost anything else he wants sexually to his wife at any age. 

Shaytan can do no more worse than this....haiya..what's wrong with the Muslim mind?

Who told you that?

[Ali Imran]

That's the place where your profit will be heading! I have already said enough of your profit back up with hadiths and quran! If I am a atheist and I need a choose btw Jesus and muh...I will study their characters and historical background!

And one day I come across this

The Prophet (ﷺ) continued for such-and-such period imagining that he has slept (had sexual relations) with his wives, and in fact he did not. One day he said, to me, "O `Aisha! Allah has instructed me regarding a matter about which I had asked Him. There came to me two men, one of them sat near my feet and the other near my head. The one near my feet, asked the one near my head (pointing at me), 'What is wrong with this man? The latter replied, 'He is under the effect of magic.' The first one asked, 'Who had worked magic on him?' The other replied, 'Lubaid bin Asam.' The first one asked, 'What material (did he use)?' The other replied, 'The skin of the pollen of a male date tree with a comb and the hair stuck to it, kept under a stone in the well of Dharwan."' Then the Prophet (ﷺ) went to that well and said, "This is the same well which was shown to me in the dream. The tops of its date-palm trees look like the heads of the devils, and its water looks like the Henna infusion." Then the Prophet (ﷺ) ordered that those things be taken out. I said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Won't you disclose (the magic object)?" The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Allah has cured me and I hate to circulate the evil among the people." `Aisha added, "(The magician) Lubaid bin Asam was a man from Bani Zuraiq, an ally of the Jews."

There are more atrocities which I will not mention! Tsk!

How is that an atrocity?

And you said "exploit the weak". How is that exploiting the weak?

[Ali Imran]

You make a claim...pls show proof!
I showed proof that scholars and even historians agree that jesus died on the cross...
You showed nothingķ

The question is not about whether Jesus died on the cross or not.

We are discussing the reliability of the 4 Gospels as a historical document. We cannot derive historical facts solely from the 4 Gospels because they all give different accounts of the same events and they are from unknown authors. Yes, secular historians have no doubt Jesus was killed on the cross but they need more than the Gospels to be sure. They need Josephus and Tacitus.

Historians love the records of our Hadith. I've explained it quite a few times already.

[pinkpanther]

How is that an atrocity?

And you said "exploit the weak". How is that exploiting the weak?

You will be OK with captors raping your love ones without their consent and you are OK with That? You are incorrigible my friend! * long sigh*