[Ali Imran]

Jesus was not merely willing to die, but he was perfectly obedient to his Father in his death on the cross...

You do know that Jesus pleaded with God to take away the cup, to save him from what was about to happen, right?

And in the Gospel, when God ignored Jesus's plea, Jesus cried out to God, "Why do you forsake me?" which should be a reference to the plea he made which was ignored.

[pinkpanther]

You do know that Jesus pleaded with God to take away the cup, to save him from what was about to happen, right?

And in the Gospel, when God ignored Jesus's plea, Jesus cried out to God, "Why do you forsake me?" which should be a reference to the plea he made which was ignored.

He was scared....what's the big deal?

So in the Quran, Jesus said:" why do you forsake me?"
Allah replied :" No worries, I will find a substitute that looks like you?"

Why did Allah allow an innocent life to die on behalf of Jesus?

[Ali Imran]

He was scared....what's the big deal?

So in the Quran, Jesus said:" why do you forsake me?"
Allah replied :" No worries, I will find a substitute that looks like you?"

Why did Allah allow an innocent life to die on behalf of Jesus?

"Why do you forsake me?", that one is not in the Quran. It's in your Bible.

The Quran does not confirm the substitute theory so your last question is invalid. 

Have you come across this verse in Hebrews 5:7?
During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission
The verse says Jesus's prayer was heard. Is that true?

[pinkpanther]

"Why do you forsake me?", that one is not in the Quran. It's in your Bible.

The Quran does not confirm the substitute theory so your last question is invalid. 

Have you come across this verse in Hebrews 5:7?
During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission
The verse says Jesus's prayer was heard. Is that true?

If Islam is true, then why would God trick the world by making us think Jesus died on the cross?

[Ali Imran]

If Islam is true, then why would God trick the world by making us think Jesus died on the cross?

Who made you believe Jesus died on the cross? We can trace that to Paul of Tarsus. So why do you blame God because you choose to believe Paul?

[pinkpanther]

Who made you believe Jesus died on the cross? We can trace that to Paul of Tarsus. So why do you blame God because you choose to believe Paul?

Josephus, Tacitus, and Lucian non Christians historians hor!

[Oyk]

I will listen to what the government says on this matter. I only wish they take a stand against Israel, for the sake of justice and nothing else, like South Africa. Without justice, there can never be peace.

Sadly, there is nothing the world can do. Even if the ICJ rules against Israel, the law cannot be enforced on Israel. They will just show the finger to the world and carry on doing what they want to do. In today's world, might is right.


We need a hero.

S’pore calls for immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza to halt rising civilian casualties

The United Nations on Dec 12 demanded an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in the Gaza Strip. 

UPDATED DEC 13, 2023, 10:19 PM

Singapore has joined 152 other nations in calling for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in the Gaza Strip as Israel faces growing diplomatic isolation in its war on the enclave.

Singapore stance on Isreal Gaza war is loud and clear internationally. 

As a tiny island nation, Singapore has done her part, punching above her weight, in promoting Peace for our world. No less for the Palestinian people too. 

South Africa is a big continent countries, with many seats in UN. Much louder voice in UN.
Cannot compares with Singapore. 
Even the Malaysian always claims Singapore is vulnerable as a small country. Big brother and small brother analogy. 
Surely everyone living in Singapore understood such situations we had been living in over decades. 

One must be pragmatic in expectation over emotions. Cheers!

Do we condemn the actions of Israel against the Palestinian people?

You lied that the government did not take a stand when what you had meant was you wanted the government to take sides with Palestine.  Moonrab produced evidence that the government did take a stand, and you twisted.......as usual..........you had been doing that in your mocking and taunting of Christianity....

Well, FM Vivian had said in a LONG SPEECH in Parliament that the retaliation by Israel had gone beyond.....go find that in YouTube.  I am not your mommy, so do not sexpect me to spoonfeed you. 

Please keep your extremist opinions away from Singapore.  Thank you.

[Oyk]

Josephus, Tacitus, and Lucian non Christians historians hor!

He will tell you they are not reliable.  You should listen to Muh who received the Quran from Jibril who said that they did not kill Him...

[Ali Imran]

Josephus, Tacitus, and Lucian non Christians historians hor!

Ok. So you take your faith from them. You choose to believe. You cannot blame God.

[pinkpanther]

You lied that the government did not take a stand when what you had meant was you wanted the government to take sides with Palestine.  Moonrab produced evidence that the government did take a stand, and you twisted.......as usual..........you had been doing that in your mocking and taunting of Christianity....

Well, FM Vivian had said in a LONG SPEECH in Parliament that the retaliation by Israel had gone beyond.....go find that in YouTube.  I am not your mommy, so do not sexpect me to spoonfeed you. 

Please keep your extremist opinions away from Singapore.  Thank you.

Oorh!  Ah Lee lied again....but I am sure it is permissible by Islamic laws
No one in sg gives a hoot to his israel/pal opinions....it would be meaningful if he pledge his loyalty and post his views  in a Arabic forum discussion...but you know Ah Lee doesn't understand Arabic...  but he prays in Arabic

[Lukongsimi]

Oorh!  Ah Lee lied again....but I am sure it is permissible by Islamic laws
No one in sg gives a hoot to his israel/pal opinions....it would be meaningful if he pledge his loyalty and post his views  in a Arabic forum discussion...but you know Ah Lee doesn't understand Arabic...  but he prays in Arabic

Tot pachik left but still continues his nonsenses again

[Ali Imran]

Oorh!  Ah Lee lied again....but I am sure it is permissible by Islamic laws
No one in sg gives a hoot to his israel/pal opinions....it would be meaningful if he pledge his loyalty and post his views  in a Arabic forum discussion...but you know Ah Lee doesn't understand Arabic...  but he prays in Arabic

Like that also can ah?

Are you and your high-fiving buddy that desperate to character-assassinate me?

[pinkpanther]

Ok. So you take your faith from them. You choose to believe. You cannot blame God.

Nope, to you the crucifixion did not occur...prove it!

[Ali Imran]

Nope, to you the crucifixion did not occur...prove it!

The burden is on you to prove that the crucifixion of the son of Mary, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.

If you can prove Jesus was killed on the cross, you will prove that Quran verse as false and at the same time, Islam as false faith.

Go ahead.

[pinkpanther]

Tot pachik left but still continues his nonsenses again

Pakcik doesn't like attention...hopefully this thread will make him amore famous

[Lukongsimi]

Pakcik doesn't like attention...hopefully this thread will make him amore famous

Maybe he doubt his religion so feel embarrassed to get into the lime light.
Only want to mock n attack Christians
We will get all the blessings because of him.
lol

[pinkpanther]

The burden is on you to prove that the crucifixion of the son of Mary, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.

If you can prove Jesus was killed on the cross, you will prove that Quran verse as false and at the same time, Islam as false faith.

Go ahead.

Just go read on Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John ...we don have to look to Muh for the real deal...

[pinkpanther]

Maybe he doubt his religion so feel embarrassed to get into the lime light.
Only want to mock n attack Christians
We will get all the blessings because of him.
lol

He doesn't have much faith of his own..that is why he is here!

[Ali Imran]

Just go read on Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John ...we don have to look to Muh for the real deal...

All the accounts in the 4 Gospels are hearsay. We cannot use them to prove the crucifixion took place.

[Oyk]

You do know that Jesus pleaded with God to take away the cup, to save him from what was about to happen, right?

And in the Gospel, when God ignored Jesus's plea, Jesus cried out to God, "Why do you forsake me?" which should be a reference to the plea he made which was ignored.

I am sure you will agree with me that Man still does not fear Death as he should.  I don't mean dying.  We all don't want to die and 99% of us fear death but I am not referring to that.  I am referring to Death in the sense that the Bible means it....Eternal Separation from God.

Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus and Moslems all have their versions of Life after Death which do not have this "Eternal Separation from Yahweh"

Jesus knew that Death would be that Eternal Separation.  God's wrath would be upon Jesus on the Cross at Calvary....

Do you think that Jesus was a coward, a sissy who feared pain and dying in this body?  Hmmm?   

He raised peeepur from the dead, he fed the multitude, walked on water, and healed the blind....if you want to go back even farther in taim, Jesus created the World and all the things in it, living and nonliving.

And mamma mia!  He was scared to die?! 

As God, He knew He would be raised from the dead.  As Man, He knew His Mission, and that Mission included God turning His face from Sin, the Sin of the world which was laid upon Jesus.  That was the anguish in those words "Father, why have you forsaken Me?"  It was the anguish of Eternal Separation.

The Sin of the World, the magnitude of which no one standing at the foot of the Cross understood, not even Mary, Ah Kow, Ah Lee (Ee Mun), Ah Sim, all of them did not understand why Jesus was hanging there on the Cross other than He had insinuated that He was IAM.

It was a secret which Satan was not given to know or he would not have Jesus killed.  To those who don't understand it, it was the Pilate who ordered the crucifixion.  Those who understand a bit better would say, it wasn't Pilate; it was the Jews.  But if you have a spiritual understanding, you'd know that there was a spiritual warfare and the mastermind in the killing was Satan.  And that crucifixion must happen, that would defeat Satan.  We understand this nao only because the Holy Spirit revealed the truth of Christ's Coming and Death to Paul.  Before that, even Jesus's disciples, all twelve of them, did not understand.  They went hiding, Judas even betrayed Him, and Peter denied knowing Him, but after they knew, they were prepared to even be martyred for the Gospel...just like Paul. (Judas excluded)

Wow!  What a transformation.  From fearing death and going into hiding, they went around preaching the Gospel on pain of Death.

And Christ's final words were "It is finished."  What does "It is finished." mean to you?  Dare to answer bo?  Or do you want Bro SimTan to answer for you?  Just don't ask Pink to answer, he will use your Hadith to answer, and you shant like that very much.... 

[Oyk]

All the accounts in the 4 Gospels are hearsay. We cannot use them to prove the crucifixion took place.

I am quoting from one of your many Islamic sauces.

Muslims believe the Gospels, and here you are slapping your own face, by saying that the Gospels are hearsay and Muslims cannot use them. 

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/9519/bel...s-of-allah

[pinkpanther]

All the accounts in the 4 Gospels are hearsay. We cannot use them to prove the crucifixion took place.

But somehow..your Quran and Muh are more credible than the Gospels of 
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John....

That’s how the Muslim logic works when we are discussing the reliability of the Gospel accounts compared to the Quran.

It’s ridiculous.

It’s illogical.

And it’s simply laughable that we even consider it in discourse.

[Oyk]

He doesn't have much faith of his own..that is why he is here!

As Christians, we place our faith in Jesus to be saved.  We surrender to Him because we know that on our own, we won't make it.

Islam teaches another "way" and he will say that it is the only way, to be saved.  Just recite this 100 taims.

[pinkpanther]

As Christians, we place our faith in Jesus to be saved.  We surrender to Him because we know that on our own, we won't make it.

Islam teaches another "way" and he will say that it is the only way, to be saved.  Just recite this 100 taims.

This is why I reject the Islam ....just recite this a 100 times and all will be forgiven? Then there is no need for De Spa la Changi...

[Ali Imran]

But somehow..your Quran and Muh are more credible than the Gospels of 
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John....

That’s how the Muslim logic works when we are discussing the reliability of the Gospel accounts compared to the Quran.

It’s ridiculous.

It’s illogical.

And it’s simply laughable that we even consider it in discourse.

You brought in the 4 Gospels as proofs. I reject them because the Gospels are hearsay, meaning they did not come from eyewitnesses. All 4 Gospels give conflicting accounts of the alleged event. That proves the hearsay of different people, which is exactly what the Quran states: that people used conjectures. But remember, Jesus prayed to God to be saved. According to Hebrews 5:7, his prayer was heard and he was saved.

Do you really believe God would ignore the plea of his beloved?

[Oyk]

Oorh!  Ah Lee lied again....but I am sure it is permissible by Islamic laws
No one in sg gives a hoot to his israel/pal opinions....it would be meaningful if he pledge his loyalty and post his views  in a Arabic forum discussion...but you know Ah Lee doesn't understand Arabic...  but he prays in Arabic

His membership in the Malay Muslim Brotherhood is more important to him than his citizenship as a Singaporean.  He'd take umbrage if you call Malaysia "Mudland", and that's not because he loves that country, or he cares about the jhks, a term we use to refer to Han Malaysians.

To him, Mudland means Malays, and that's how he got a thread in edmw locked, and himself bend.  The mods there know him very well.

In the wider scheme of things, he identifies with the Muslims in Palestine, and wants the Singapore Government to "take a stand" ie take the side of the Palestinians who are Muslim.  Taken to its logical conclusion, the government should send the SAF to the Middle East to fight the Israelis.

[pinkpanther]

You brought in the 4 Gospels as proofs. I reject them because the Gospels are hearsay, meaning they did not come from eyewitnesses. All 4 Gospels give conflicting accounts of the alleged event. That proves the hearsay of different people, which is exactly what the Quran states: that people used conjectures. But remember, Jesus prayed to God to be saved. According to Hebrews 5:7, his prayer was heard and he was saved.

Do you really believe God would ignore the plea of his beloved?

The crucifixion is mentioned by Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, Josephus, Suetonius, Pliny, Tacitis, the Didache, the letter to the Hebrews, and the Talmud (although the latter reference is sometimes disputed). That’s not counting references in works with disputed dates of authorship, or the works of the early Church fathers (Clement, c. 89 AD; Ignatius, c. 110 AD). It’s also not counting sources that are no longer extent, such as the creedal formula in the letter to the Galatians (the formula would date to within 1–3 years of the crucifixion), the works of Papis (c. 90 AD, quoted by Eusebius in the fourth century), the pre-Markan passion narrative (conventionally dated to within a decade of the crucifixion), or the hypothetical Q gospel (conventionally dated to the middle of the first century).

I would take my chances with them rather than your Quran which came so much later!

[Oyk]

This is why I reject the Islam ....just recite this a 100 times and all will be forgiven? Then there is no need for De Spa la Changi...

Is he going to say that the above is a lie, and I am spreading lies? 

[Ali Imran]

The crucifixion is mentioned by Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, Josephus, Suetonius, Pliny, Tacitis, the Didache, the letter to the Hebrews, and the Talmud (although the latter reference is sometimes disputed). That’s not counting references in works with disputed dates of authorship, or the works of the early Church fathers (Clement, c. 89 AD; Ignatius, c. 110 AD). It’s also not counting sources that are no longer extent, such as the creedal formula in the letter to the Galatians (the formula would date to within 1–3 years of the crucifixion), the works of Papis (c. 90 AD, quoted by Eusebius in the fourth century), the pre-Markan passion narrative (conventionally dated to within a decade of the crucifixion), or the hypothetical Q gospel (conventionally dated to the middle of the first century).

I would take my chances with them rather than your Quran which came so much later!

The earliest writings about the alleged crucifixion came from Paul, who wasn't an eyewitness. During his time, other competing Christian sects rejected the idea that Jesus was crucified. How do we know about them? Because the early church fathers wrote about them. 

So, we don't need the Quran for now. We don't need the Muslims. We will only use your scriptures which shows you cannot easily come to a conclusion about the alleged crucifixion because you have not listened to what the other Christians were saying at that time, that they believed Jesus WAS NOT CRUCIFIED.

If you only listen to one side, you are being unjust.

[pinkpanther]

Is he going to say that the above is a lie, and I am spreading lies? 

He needs to reply to what you have shown or else viewers will know that he conveniently skip the hard questions..