(01-04-2024, 11:37 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Your personal experience is subjective truth. I do not doubt you experienced them. There are also Hindus who have similar experiences that are consistent with their scriptures and they became more convinced of their faith. Buddhists also can tell you similar stories. That would mean their scriptures are the word of God too, based on your paradigm. But we know they all cannot be true.
I reject your claim that the Bible is the word of God based on knowledge of the scriptures, how it came into existence, and how it was transmitted to us.
When Luke was penning the book of Acts, do you think that in his mind, he was writing down the words of God? Do you think that is the case?
Same can be said of the Quran. It is the subjective truth of Mohammed and those who believe him. It is not the truth for me even if I agree with some of the teachings that are consistent with the bible and torah.
Again we are arguing in circles. You have not convinced any Christians that Islamism is the one true religion of God and the reverse is also true. Want to know the truth, just wait for judgement day for all to be revealed.
(01-04-2024, 10:47 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Please let me explain this, using your scriptures. In Matthew 12:50, a recorded saying of Jesus states that whoever does the will of the Father will be his brother or sister or mother. Also in Matt 7, we have the same description of the people who will be among the successful.
A Muslim is one who does the will of the Father, or in our paradigm, the will of the almighty God. When we say we submit (aslam) to the will of God, we really do, as perfectly as we can. On the surface, we submit (do) to the law, like 5 daily prayers, or fasting in Ramadan. Spiritually, it is more difficult to submit, and it takes a lot of training and tests.
So that is why, we say Adam was a Muslim. So too Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Jesus, peace be upon them all.
You don't have to speak or pray in Arabic to submit to the will of God. An aborigine in the desert of Australia who has never heard of Islam or the Prophet (صلي الله عليه وسلم), may still be a Muslim. I read somewhere that they submit to the will of the one who has no anus. Crude? Maybe, but you cannot fault their simple understanding of the One who created the heavens above them.
Come, I will show you the way to God, with the permission of God. I am not a messenger of God or prophet or a pious man. But I understand the teaching of the prophets sent by God, in particular, the last 2. Jesus said he is the way and I believe 100% what he said is the truth. The destination is the one true God, supreme and majestic, with no partners.
Worship God alone, my friend. Only then you can put 100% of your mind on the worship.
Judaism and Christianity all share this same tenet as Islamism, ie to submit [obey] to God. The difference is both Jews and Muslims do not see Jesus as a part of God, Son of God.
Ironic when you consider that Jews and Muslims oppose each other to the point of death even though Judaism and Islamism share a great deal in common .
There is no need to argue. In the quran Your god Allah has never spoken to mohammad ..therefore it is no good.
Come prove me wrong! I wanted it only from the quran...no other sources!
You might be praying in vain
(01-04-2024, 10:46 PM)Fancy-Bus8506 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm avoiding a debate with a fool.
Debate with me? I won't ask you to do anything beyond your ability.
I asked you a question. Come on babe. Answer my question with yes or no and don't wriggle too hard to try to get off the hook. Lol!
(02-04-2024, 06:27 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]There is no need to argue. In the quran Your god Allah has never spoken to mohammad ..therefore it is no good.
Come prove me wrong! I wanted it only from the quran...no other sources!
You might be praying in vain
The Quran is not God's conversation with Prophet Muhammad (صلي الله عليه وسلم).
The Quran is a revelation from God for the God-conscious among mankind.
(02-04-2024, 01:06 AM)luncheonmeat Wrote: [ -> ] Judaism and Christianity all share this same tenet as Islamism, ie to submit [obey] to God. The difference is both Jews and Muslims do not see Jesus as a part of God, Son of God.
Ironic when you consider that Jews and Muslims oppose each other to the point of death even though Judaism and Islamism share a great deal in common .
That is wrong bro. Islam saved Jews from the Christians. If not for the Muslims, there would be no more Jews as they would have been wiped off by the Christians, in particular, Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand. So no, Muslims and Jews don't oppose each other, until Zionism came along in the late 19th century.
But yes, we both have the same faith. And as you know, our faith came from the prophets, including Jesus.
Do you know where your faith came from? I know and I can tell you right off the bat that it didn't come from Jesus, the son of Mary, peace be upon him.
(02-04-2024, 06:41 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]The Quran is not God's conversation with Prophet Muhammad.
The Quran is a revelation from God for the God-conscious among mankind.
Who passed the relevation to mohammad?
(02-04-2024, 06:27 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]There is no need to argue. In the quran Your god Allah has never spoken to mohammad ..therefore it is no good.
Come prove me wrong! I wanted it only from the quran...no other sources!
You might be praying in vain
That's a question that they shant be able to answer.
In fact, their god had never spoken to anyone. All the Quran tells is just a recital of some random sayings taken from the Bible, rephrased. Hence, the Quran cannot answer a lot of questions.
So how? Well read the Bible for the answers! And throw in the Hadith. Just add the first five books of the Bible to their theology and the job's done because in the Christian Bible, God spoke to Adam Abraham Moses bla bla and bla.
(02-04-2024, 06:47 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]That is wrong bro. Islam saved Jews from the Christians. If not for the Muslims, there would be no more Jews as they would have been wiped off by the Christians, in particular, Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand. So no, Muslims and Jews don't oppose each other, until Zionism came along in the late 19th century.
But yes, we both have the same faith. And as you know, our faith came from the prophets, including Jesus.
Do you know where your faith came from? I know and I can tell you right off the bat that it didn't come from Jesus, the son of Mary, peace be upon him.
Your last paragraph is saying that Paul was a liar. That's not a right off the bat statement. That's straight off your pigudong.
(02-04-2024, 12:35 AM)luncheonmeat Wrote: [ -> ]Same can be said of the Quran. It is the subjective truth of Mohammed and those who believe him. It is not the truth for me even if I agree with some of the teachings that are consistent with the bible and torah.
Again we are arguing in circles. You have not convinced any Christians that Islamism is the one true religion of God and the reverse is also true. Want to know the truth, just wait for judgement day for all to be revealed.
Prophet Muhammad (صلي الله عليه وسلم) brought an objective truth. So too did the prophets before him.
In comparison, your experience is a subjective truth because it is only experienced by you and no one else. Even if someone else went through the same thing you did, his/her experience will differ from yours.
Where you are wrong is clear. You worship God alongside others. You broke the very first commandment. Remember, Jesus didn't teach anybody to pray to a triune god. As a matter of fact, he taught people to pray DIRECTLY to the one true God.
(02-04-2024, 06:57 AM)Oyk Wrote: [ -> ]Your last paragraph is saying that Paul was a liar. That's not a right off the bat statement. That's straight off your pigudong.
No, even St Paul didn't teach the Trinity. At the time of St Paul, the Trinity has not yet been formulated.
(02-04-2024, 06:41 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]The Quran is not God's conversation with Prophet Muhammad (صلي الله عليه وسلم).
The Quran is a revelation from God for the God-conscious among mankind.
You are giving an answer for something he did not say.
He said your god did not speak to Muhammad. Do you not agree?
(02-04-2024, 06:59 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]No, even St Paul didn't teach the Trinity. At the time of St Paul, the Trinity has not yet been formulated.
Why do you call Paul a saint while insinuating that he lied?
(02-04-2024, 07:00 AM)Oyk Wrote: [ -> ]You are giving an answer for something he did not say.
He said your god did not speak to Muhammad. Do you not agree?
No, I disagree. God spoke directly to Prophet Muhammad (صلي الله عليه وسلم).
We have told him that already.
(02-04-2024, 07:01 AM)Oyk Wrote: [ -> ]Why do you call Paul a saint while insinuating that he lied?
I don't hold that opinion about St Paul.
I don't believe he lied.
(02-04-2024, 07:01 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]No, I disagree. God spoke directly to Prophet Muhammad (صلي الله عليه وسلم).
We have told him that already.
Then show it to me...only from the quran!
(02-04-2024, 06:59 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Prophet Muhammad (صلي الله عليه وسلم) brought an objective truth. So too did the prophets before him.
In comparison, your experience is a subjective truth because it is only experienced by you and no one else. Even if someone else went through the same thing you did, his/her experience will differ from yours.
Where you are wrong is clear. You worship God alongside others. You broke the very first commandment. Remember, Jesus didn't teach anybody to pray to a triune god. As a matter of fact, he taught people to pray DIRECTLY to the one true God.
I pray and even TALK to God directly and not through Mary, Peter, Ali or Satan.
Jesus has reconciled Man with God through His Death and you can either believe and walk on that bridge that the Cross is, or choose to recite the Quran and call that praying. Sorry, I don't consider reading the Bible aloud to be praying man.
(02-04-2024, 07:05 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Then show it to me...only from the quran!
The Quran is not a recording of conversations between Allah and Prophet Muhammad.
The Quran is guidance from God to the God-conscious among men.
(02-04-2024, 07:07 AM)Oyk Wrote: [ -> ]I pray and even TALK to God directly and not through Mary, Peter, Ali or Satan.
Jesus has reconciled Man with God through His Death and you can either believe and walk on that bridge that the Cross is, or choose to recite the Quran and call that praying. Sorry, I don't consider reading the Bible aloud to be praying man.
Reciting the Quran is not praying, but an act of worship.
Do you pray to Jesus?
(02-04-2024, 07:02 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]I don't hold that opinion about St Paul.
I don't believe he lied.
You are hecking away at Pauline teachings and telling me he was not a liar?
So what now? You want to say that Paul was possessed by Satan ah?
What a snake you are!
(02-04-2024, 07:10 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Reciting the Quran is not praying, but an act of worship.
Do you pray to Jesus?
I pray to God through Jesus. You have an issue with that?
(02-04-2024, 07:11 AM)Oyk Wrote: [ -> ]You are hecking away at Pauline teachings and telling me he was not a liar?
So what now? You want to say that Paul was possessed by Satan ah?
What a snake you are!
Yes, I don't believe Paul of Tarsus was a liar.
(02-04-2024, 07:14 AM)Oyk Wrote: [ -> ]I pray to God through Jesus. You have an issue with that?
Jesus taught people to pray directly to God.
Who taught you to pray to God through Jesus?
(02-04-2024, 07:10 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Reciting the Quran is not praying, but an act of worship.
Do you pray to Jesus?
I am quoting you so don't try to wriggle again
Reciting some verses in your Quran is WORSHIPPING your god????
Well we Christians don't RECITE the Bible but we do read it aloud in church or at smaller cell group gatherings. That is not done as an 'act' of worship.
Seems pretty much obvious that you don't know how to worship... Lol
(02-04-2024, 07:19 AM)Oyk Wrote: [ -> ]I am quoting you so don't try to wriggle again
Reciting some verses in your Quran is WORSHIPPING your god????
Well we Christians don't RECITE the Bible but we do read it aloud in church or at smaller cell group gatherings. That is not done as an 'act: of worship.
Seems pretty much obvious that you don't know how to worship... Lol
Yes, reciting the Quran is an act of worship. So too is removing a shard of glass from a walkway so it won't hurt others.
(02-04-2024, 07:25 AM)Oyk Wrote: [ -> ]So he was possesed by Satan to preach lies?
No, I don't believe that.
(01-04-2024, 11:38 PM)Blasterlord2 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, avoid debating with a fool. No need to stoop to his level, or you'll become the fool.
You don't need to stoop to become a fool. You are one since the day you came out from your mother's chee erm... body.
