[Ali Imran]

Logical thinking lah....you cannot form sg with only 50 military men...you can't even form 3 platoons!

So, calling the killing of banu Quraiza a massacre is a lie. Karen Armstrong, a well-acclaimed historian, referring to the lies about a massacre, calls it a great travesty of the truth.

[pinkpanther]

A few hundred strong tribe would have a fort. They can go into their fort and it will be difficult to attack them without siege weapons. After their food runs out, they must come out.

I am glad that you knew that they ran out of food..at least we can finally agree on 1 point...they ran out of food because there were so many of the combatants....if only 50 of them needed the nourishment only...I bet they can hold their Fort for years!

[pinkpanther]

So, calling the killing of banu Quraiza a massacre is a lie. Karen Armstrong, a well-acclaimed historian, referring to the lies about a massacre, calls it a great travesty of the truth.

Haha...she can say anything she wants..I look at records and compilations.
The life of Muh is one of the oldest compilations....you want to believe Karen and not believe in your prophet......there is your faith..thrown out of the window!

[Oyk]

When you look at this passage...you feel for the woman..because she can no longer shed tears of sadness..she became crazy isn't it  because her people were mostly killed...

Do you seriously think that potato will read it?

Consider yourself kinda lucky to be here. If you post all of the above in edmw, he will make sure you get NTUC points and finally bend.

Your sin? You wounded his pride.

[Ali Imran]

Haha...she can say anything she wants..I look at records and compilations.
The life of Muh is one of the oldest compilations....you want to believe Karen and not believe in your prophet......there is your faith..thrown out of the window!

Would you know if you're looking at false records? Or unreliable records?

[pinkpanther]

Would you know if you're looking at false records? Or unreliable records?

I look at Muslim records...from sahih al-bukhari, from the life of muh..from pro Islamic websites....I take their words....

You on the contrary trusted Karen even though you have showed me no proof..
What does Muslims say about a woman's words? It is only worth half!

[pinkpanther]

Do you seriously think that potato will read it?

Consider yourself kinda lucky to be here. If you post all of the above in edmw, he will make sure you get NTUC points and finally bend.

Your sin? You wounded his pride.

  I cannot believe he will abandon all his Muslim sauces and run under the skirt of Karen Armstrong...

I also don think he will read what I have shown lah....Next time just type one line enough liao....like "really" "is it" "show me the sauce" " where did you get that"....it is enough to last thru the day!

[Ali Imran]

I look at Muslim records...from sahih al-bukhari, from the life of muh..from pro Islamic websites....I take their words....

You on the contrary trusted Karen even though you have showed me no proof..
What does Muslims say about a woman's words? It is only worth half!

Sahih al Bukhari has a reliable record. But most of the information you brought didn't come from Sahih al Bukhari, like the number 600 which you got from unreliable records.

That is why it is important for you to know the basics of our scriptures before you study them. And you don't have the basics.

[pinkpanther]

Sahih al Bukhari has a reliable record. But most of the information you brought didn't come from Sahih al Bukhari, like the number 600 which you got from unreliable records.

That is why it is important for you to know the basics of our scriptures before you study them. And you don't have the basics.

So you know best..,estimated number is 600 and above! Where you get this 50 men?
Yesterday you were saying don believe much into it wor....but the life of muh clearly says that the incident did happened!

Now you say I don have the basics of your scriptures before I study them! What a joke! You don even have knowledge that the incident actually existed...you must be thankful to me that your knowledge is growing and if you are even grateful you should retract the liar statement!

[pinkpanther]

Pls sit down with your Imam and ask him to tell you the incident in details!
Don ask me...I could care less...seek the truth from your imam ..I already said and showed you enough....

[Ali Imran]

So you know best..,estimated number is 600 and above! Where you get this 50 men?
Yesterday you were saying don believe much into it wor....but the life of muh clearly says that the incident did happened!

Now you say I don have the basics of your scriptures before I study them! What a joke! You don even have knowledge that the incident actually existed...you must be thankful to me that your knowledge is growing and if you are even grateful you should retract the liar statement!

I never said the incident didn't happened. It is in our Sahih. But the 600 number is likely NOT an estimated number but a bloated one. Whatever the case, that 600 number came from an unreliable source, not a Sahih Hadith, not even a Hadith per se.

[pinkpanther]

The Muslim jurist Tabari quotes 600–900 being killed. The Sunni hadith do not give the number killed, but state that one woman and all pubescent males were killed. According to Ibn Kathir, Quranic verses 33:26-27 and 33:9-10 are about the attack against the Banu Qurayza.

Go read lah...I give you another sauce...from the quran ...Don be lazy ok! This time don come and tell me if the quran is reliable hor!

[Ali Imran]

Pls sit down with your Imam and ask him to tell you the incident in details!
Don ask me...I could care less...seek the truth from your imam ..I already said and showed you enough....

You made a lie, saying our prophet ordered a massacre when you don't know. You think you know but you don't. You confused reliable and unreliable records.

[pinkpanther]

You made a lie, saying our prophet ordered a massacre when you don't know. You think you know but you don't. You confused reliable and unreliable records.

You are saying your prophet lied? Look at the life of muh again for your answer! Who is lying?

[pinkpanther]

I never said the incident didn't happened. It is in our Sahih. But the 600 number is likely NOT an estimated number but a bloated one. Whatever the case, that 600 number came from an unreliable source, not a Sahih Hadith, not even a Hadith per se.

No you said it was never mentioned in the hadiths yesterday wor....
And your 50 men were from reliable sauces?

[Ali Imran]

The Muslim jurist Tabari quotes 600–900 being killed. The Sunni hadith do not give the number killed, but state that one woman and all pubescent males were killed. According to Ibn Kathir, Quranic verses 33:26-27 and 33:9-10 are about the attack against the Banu Qurayza.

Go read lah...I give you another sauce...from the quran ...Don be lazy ok! This time don come and tell me if the quran is reliable hor!

What is the source of atTabari? Do you know?

The Quran did not mention the number 600. Only 1 unreliable record mention 600.

[pinkpanther]

Prepare for the shock. 

The story of banu Quraiza is not in the Hadith. The story of Quraiza is the same standard as the apocryphals in Christianity. So please don't blame the Hadith for the many many unknowns in that story.

I am so shocked! Are you?

[pinkpanther]

What is the source of atTabari? Do you know?

The Quran did not mention the number 600. Only 1 unreliable record mention 600.

So you know? Show me!

[Ali Imran]

No you said it was never mentioned in the hadiths yesterday wor....
And your 50 men were from reliable sauces?

Some scholars opined that it could not be more than 50 because, killing 600 men is a huge task and a logistical nightmare. There would have been a lot of reports of such a huge event taking place. But as you probably have known by now, there are only scant reports in our Hadith so it could not have been a huge event. Another point the scholars brought up is the lack of mention in the Jewish annals. If such an event took place, the Jewish annals would have recorded it. There are no records in the Jewish annals of such a huge event that happened to their people.

A massacre was never mentioned in the Hadith.

[Ali Imran]

So you know? Show me!

It is likely that At Tabari got that information from the same unreliable source.

The information 600 men came from only 1 source, ibn Ishaq's Sira and that is not Hadith.

[pinkpanther]

It is likely that At Tabari got that information from the same unreliable source.

The information 600 men came from only 1 source, ibn Ishaq's Sira and that is not Hadith.

Why are you seeking the truth from a non Muslim? You show me the ans lah! How many was reported? Why is it taking you so long!

[pinkpanther]

Some scholars opined that it could not be more than 50 because, killing 600 men is a huge task and a logistical nightmare. There would have been a lot of reports of such a huge event taking place. But as you probably have known by now, there are only scant reports in our Hadith so it could not have been a huge event. Another point the scholars brought up is the lack of mention in the Jewish annals. If such an event took place, the Jewish annals would have recorded it. There are no records in the Jewish annals of such a huge event that happened to their people.

A massacre was never mentioned in the Hadith.

What ask the scholars...the event was written down...ask what!

[Ali Imran]

Why are you seeking the truth from a non Muslim? You show me the ans lah! How many was reported? Why is it taking you so long!

Nobody knows how many were killed. Scholarly opinions I've already given you.

If I give you a Muslim historian who said the massacre is a lie, you will say he is biased. That is why I brought along Karen Armstrong who is not a Muslim and she also agree that it is a lie.

[pinkpanther]

I will tell you what....banu qurayza did not exist...muh was not there, there was no killing..no one was hurt...no women and children were sold.. muh and forces just went over there for a bbq lasting 25 days! You like it now

[pinkpanther]

Nobody knows how many were killed. Scholarly opinions I've already given you.

If I give you a Muslim historian who said the massacre is a lie, you will say he is biased. That is why I brought along Karen Armstrong who is not a Muslim and she also agree that it is a lie.

I don care what are their opinions! I judged from the consistency of my findings and came to my own conclusion...
If you like to follow Karen's opinions...I suggest you to leave this thread  sound familiar?  I am giving you my time and opinions...if that pussy's opinions matter more...then why are you here?

[Ali Imran]

I don care what are their opinions! I judged from the consistency of my findings and come to my own conclusion...
If you like to follow Karen's opinions...I suggest you to leave this thread  sound familiar?  I am giving you my time and opinions...if that pussy's opinions matter more...then why are you here?

Why are you suddenly misogynistic?

I have no problem being in this thread. You don't need to make that suggestion to me. I am telling you where you went wrong but you refused to accept it. Taking information from unreliable records and using it to make judgment is not a wise move.

[Ali Imran]

I will tell you what....banu qurayza did not exist...muh was not there, there was no killing..no one was hurt...no women and children were sold.. muh and forces just went over there for a bbq lasting 25 days! You like it now

We believe 100% banu Quraiza existed in history.

[pinkpanther]

Why are you suddenly misogynistic?

I have no problem being in this thread. You don't need to make that suggestion to me. I am telling you where you went wrong but you refused to accept it. Taking information from unreliable records and using it to make judgment is not a wise move.

I am giving you my opinions but you are taking someone's opinions to refute me....haiya...you cannot form your own? I will be glad if it comes out from your mouth..at least it can be called an effort! What a lazy bum! 

You have reliable records and info? Then what are you waiting for? Show me? I am waiting for days!

[pinkpanther]

We believe 100% banu Quraiza existed in history.

You see..you can be so knowledgeable at times!  

[Lukongsimi]