[forum456]

Because they have 30 to 100 millions population. 
Willing to work for SGD$3k and above. 
Simple hard truth. 👌

we have 6 millions population.
also willing to work for SGD$3k and above.

[moonrab]

we have 6 millions population.
also willing to work for SGD$3k and above.

3 millions citizens want Singaporean first policy. Too little la...
Out of 3 millions, only 1 millions plus workforce. And about half need SGD 5 to 10k salary. Buy car, condominium...🤣

How to compete with 30 to 100 millions population countries. Not to mention those 250 millions to 1 billion population countries.

[Clyde]

You write so long but you do know what we are lacking. IT software developer we need alot of them. As long as this role is shunned Spore govt no choice will keep import and now the foreigner say must also import their project manager etc too as a total package a la ransom if you think another way.

This is what I heard from my niece in her IT company. It is a German company. The top level management in Singapore are mostly foreigners(ah neh). They only want to hire their own kind. They refused to give her a permanent role for more than 2 years. Her previous company was also fined by MOM for hiring only Indians. I believe this is the situation now in many companies in Singapore.

[sgh]

there is no need to import software developers.
our govt just need to train local talents.

I talked to WSG before.
WSG personnel told me that all govt sponsored IT programs with employers have oversupply of applicants.
He told me that some applicants need to apply 2 to 4 times to be successful.

The problem is local do not want to work that role long time they expect say do a few years move up to do project management etc other kinds instead of software development all the way. But reality is all IT system need software. It is analogy we need ppl to clear our rubbish everyday and who to clear? Rubbish workers isn't it? Software developer has been labeled as labourers working in aircon instead of under the sun. I know as I work that role for 26+ years and counting I see a lot.

[sgh]

Let's not kid ourselves, project managers will always have better pay than developers. At most we can say that developers now have pay that is much better than before.

Unless one has real passion in technical work, it's better not to do it. 

BTW, what language you used to do your development?

If you are doing IT recruitment you would know some employers look for specialized software developer and pay top dollars even higher than project manager. They do exist as of currently 10k developer role are around until recent tech layoff frenzy.

What language you want to know wow long list. Lotus Notes Lotus Script Visual Basic Visual C++ plain C C++ Java Python oracle plsql mssql transact SQL postgresql bash script Perl etc some obscure I forget. I am forced to learn as I am usually doing maintenance instead of create from scratch so need learn a lot else cannot do maintenance for bug fixes and enhancement request.

Now you know why locals do not want to specialise in software development they need to keep learning and then produce working program for employers compared to say project manager manning Java Python etc no big diff, timeline budget resources allocation etc tasks do not change drastically due to different programming language used for the IT projects.

[grotesqueness]

If you are doing IT recruitment you would know some employers look for specialized software developer and pay top dollars even higher than project manager. They do exist as of currently 10k developer role are around until recent tech layoff frenzy.

What language you want to know wow long list. Lotus Notes Lotus Script Visual Basic Visual C++ plain C C++ Java Python oracle plsql mssql transact SQL postgresql bash script Perl etc some obscure I forget. I am forced to learn as I am usually doing maintenance instead of create from scratch so need learn a lot else cannot do maintenance for bug fixes and enhancement request.

Now you know why locals do not want to specialise in software development they need to keep learning and then produce working program for employers compared to say project manager manning Java Python etc no big diff, timeline budget resources allocation etc tasks do not change drastically due to different programming language used for the IT projects.

not only local what
FT also having the same problems
that why teo hacked

it is as simple as that

[sgh]

not only local what
FT also having the same problems
that why teo hacked

it is as simple as that

This tread is about why need import is becuz there are some roles in IT locals don't wanna do. The problem rear the ugly head becuz those workers say they no longer want to be workers they want to take over other roles too and this is what happens competition with locals doing the other roles.

E.g DSTA need developers so they loan software developers from ST companies. They themselves do project management instead. Why I know is I interviewed with that ST companies the person tell me my payslip logo is ST but on reality will take orders from the DSTA side as working full-time on their projects. Why me selected becuz I am Sporean and DSTA project is military related best not give foreigner do. I rejected the offer in the end becuz of such arrangements and ST and DSTA treat software developers like labourers loan here loan there project finish go other projects etc.

I and now prefer employer in-house IT environment.

[grotesqueness]

This tread is about why need import is becuz there are some roles in IT locals don't wanna do. The problem rear the ugly head becuz those workers say they no longer want to be workers they want to take over other roles too and this is what happens competition with locals doing the other roles.

E.g DSTA need developers so they loan software developers from ST companies. They themselves do project management instead. Why I know is I interviewed with that ST companies the person tell me my payslip logo is ST but on reality will take orders from the DSTA side as working full-time on their projects. Why me selected becuz I am Sporean and DSTA project is military related best not give foreigner do. I rejected the offer in the end becuz of such arrangements and ST and DSTA treat software developers like labourers loan here loan there project finish go other projects etc.

I and now prefer employer in-house IT environment.

ok 
your finding is
IT locals don't wanna do
and PAP shit head passing shit poo to other FTs
creating more shits

so our system is  educating  our leaders to be more shitty


since noone is brilliance to see and solve the problems
yet collecting more fatty paycheck
 
then it is right to call for PAPEXIT parliament in next GE

[Blasterlord2]

If you are doing IT recruitment you would know some employers look for specialized software developer and pay top dollars even higher than project manager. They do exist as of currently 10k developer role are around until recent tech layoff frenzy.

What language you want to know wow long list. Lotus Notes Lotus Script Visual Basic Visual C++ plain C C++ Java Python oracle plsql mssql transact SQL postgresql bash script Perl etc some obscure I forget. I am forced to learn as I am usually doing maintenance instead of create from scratch so need learn a lot else cannot do maintenance for bug fixes and enhancement request.

Now you know why locals do not want to specialise in software development they need to keep learning and then produce working program for employers compared to say project manager manning Java Python etc no big diff, timeline budget resources allocation etc tasks do not change drastically due to different programming language used for the IT projects.

I know software developers are quite well-paid these few years cos someone I know who is in the fintech industry asked me to introduce some developers to him. He told me it's very difficult to get them. Even my sister's US company is also willing to pay fresh graduate $9k for junior developer roles. But I dun think they could get this high now as these jobs were hyped up in the last few years.

However, project managers will still always command higher pay because they decide your work scope and performance. I'm referring to senior level project managers.

[sgh]

ok 
your finding is
IT locals don't wanna do
and PAP shit head passing shit poo to other FTs
creating more shits

so our system is  educating  our leaders to be more shitty


since noone is brilliance to see and solve the problems
yet collecting more fatty paycheck
 
then it is right to call for PAPEXIT parliament in next GE

IT is a wide field I am talking about a role inside IT called software development that locals don't wanna do. I think IT project management locals can and want to do until this role is also being challenged by the foreigners. Why foreigners can muscle into such roles is anyone guess hehe

[grotesqueness]

IT is a wide field I am talking about a role inside IT called software development that locals don't wanna do. I think IT project management locals can and want to do until this role is also being challenged by the foreigners. Why foreigners can muscle into such roles is anyone guess hehe

it is not  dont want to do lah

it is working with shithead project directors
no local dare to do work with local shithead project directors
that why  shithead project directors hire FT shithead creating more shit

FT can just leave and move to another country claiming fake good progress work in singapore
FT benefitted 
local did not

[sgh]

it is not  dont want to do lah

it is working with shithead project directors
no local dare to do work with local shithead project directors
that why  shithead project directors hire FT shithead creating more shit

FT can just leave and move to another country claiming fake good progress work in singapore
FT benefitted 
local did not

I am talking about doing software development for your entire working career and being paid for your efforts on par with managers. The pay packet indicates the respect employers have for the role you have contributed to them. If not that means in employers mindset software developers are just labourers working in aircon environment cheap.

[sgh]

I know software developers are quite well-paid these few years cos someone I know who is in the fintech industry asked me to introduce some developers to him. He told me it's very difficult to get them. Even my sister's US company is also willing to pay fresh graduate $9k for junior developer roles. But I dun think they could get this high now as these jobs were hyped up in the last few years.

However, project managers will still always command higher pay because they decide your work scope and performance. I'm referring to senior level project managers.

You do know in most IT projects you likely to have say 1 project manager 10 developers correct? I have never seen the reverse. This means the vacancies for managers are limited in an employer organisation. With most local retrenched seniors typically wanna do project management work they find it can be quite hard to emerge as that sole manager to be recruited. I avoided all that by doing software development instead.

[grotesqueness]

I am talking about doing software development for your entire working career and being paid for your efforts on par with managers. The pay packet indicates the respect employers have for the role you have contributed to them. If not that means in employers mindset software developers are just labourers working in aircon environment cheap.

that is where i can see you are a dumbass

it is not contributed to them
it is contributed to each other
that is how USA software companies works so well

[Symmetry]

Every country will face this problem. With PAP being just average humans and not super powers, i think its the people who has too much high hopes on them.  With high salary, it does not equate to abilities.

[Tangsen]

A Singaporean’s struggle in home country: Job insecurity and foreign preference in the workforce

A Singaporean degree holder recounts in a letter, the challenge of finding employment amid preferences for foreign talents, despite local qualifications and experience.

https://gutzy.asia/2024/04/18/a-singapor...workforce/

And Singaporeans debate if a degree is relevant ….. 

[watchfirst9]

Every country will face this problem. With PAP being just average humans and not super powers, i think its the people who has too much high hopes on them.  With high salary, it does not equate to abilities.

True, but with great pay, people will expect more is also not wrong.


Resident Median age of 44 is help by PRs and new citizens
reason is simple from birth chart median population cannot be born after 1975 in the first place
https://static.mothership.sg/1/2018/04/T...agovsg.png
 
As people grow old, illness start to come up. Fear is there.
It is moral responsibilities of govt to do what they can to help all that wish to work.

[EvertonDiehard]

Every country will face this problem. With PAP being just average humans and not super powers, i think its the people who has too much high hopes on them.  With high salary, it does not equate to abilities.

S'poreans have pinned high hopes on the MIW because they have fixed up the Opposition, so there is no real alternative for the voters.

[Oyk]

Something is truly rotten in the state of S'pore when 95% of jobs created last year and 89% in 2022 went to foreigners. 

Were those professional jobs or construction jobs?

Statistics don't lie but the 39% use statistics to lie. All the time. 

[Oyk]

S'poreans have pinned high hopes on the MIW because they have fixed up the Opposition, so there is no real alternative for the voters.

Terence, Png Eng Huat resigned from WP on their own. They were not fixed up by PAP as you alleged.

Leon Pereira and Nicole Seah were also not fixed up by PAP but resigned after the driver blew the whistle about the two of them doing something which you won't like to read.

Yaw Shin Leong ran away but if he didn't his life was meant to end early anyway.

Raeesah Khan admitted to telling lies in Parliament.

Leong Mun Wai...you should know what  happened... 

So don't point fingers at PAP when you didn't vote wisely.

[EvertonDiehard]

The Pappies are far more savvy than you can imagine when they "fix up" their opponents. They won't dirty their hands while they are at it. 

[Ola]

the root cause is the 60% voters

the problem will be resolved if it can drops to 51%

And 50% of those voters are foreigners

So actually 11% citizens voted for PAP Only

[forum456]

The problem is local do not want to work that role long time they expect say do a few years move up to do project management etc other kinds instead of software development all the way. But reality is all IT system need software. It is analogy we need ppl to clear our rubbish everyday and who to clear? Rubbish workers isn't it? Software developer has been labeled as labourers working in aircon instead of under the sun. I know as I work that role for 26+ years and counting I see a lot.

depends on the company.
if the company has dual career path for developers (technical and management), developers will stay long because the pay is same as management role.
it means you have not worked in company that provides technical path that pays the same as management role.

no matter what, there is no lack of local applicants.
I have talked to WSG on all govt job program for IT, all IT programs with employers have oversupply of applicants.

if you have any employer who says he cannot find local IT applicants, ask him to sign up with WSG/IMDA on
hire and train program.
he can easily get more than 10 applicants for every job vacancy.
there is no need to import foreigners unless he wants cheap foreigners

[sgh]

depends on the company.
if the company has dual career path for developers (technical and management), developers will stay long because the pay is same as management role.
it means you have not worked in company that provides technical path that pays the same as management role.

no matter what, there is no lack of local applicants.
I have talked to WSG on all govt job program for IT, all IT programs with employers have oversupply of applicants.

if you have any employer who says he cannot find local IT applicants, ask him to sign up with WSG/IMDA on
hire and train program.
he can easily get more than 10 applicants for every job vacancy.
there is no need to import foreigners unless he wants cheap foreigners

Can I know are you also in IT industry? If yes how many years? It is a common known fact locals do not want to be developer forever. They aspire to be manager instead. Developer to them is like the initial years of their career not forever in that role becuz they view that role as labourer compared to manager.

[Wy:Nox]

It is wrong of this Govt to tell us to level up when many countries already have Flexible Work Agreement in place and not affected by this. 


https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapor...fh-4273911

Businesses and policymakers, appear to work hand in hand. No need to go into office to work, is a reason for companies to hire more foreign workers? then might as well incorporate the businesses in other countries and not enjoy Singapore's benefits...

[EvertonDiehard]

Looking at the no. of expats cycling during morning peak hour along Upper Bukit Timah and Bukit Timah Rd, I guess many of our foreign white collar workers have been WFH since the pandemic.