[Hope]

The Old Testament has 39 books and the New Testament has 27 books so total 66 books in the Bible lah!  That's the canonised Holy Bible lah! Any addition or subtraction will be judged by the Lord Jesus Christ lah! Let Him be the Judge lah!

How many authors?
Is it true 27books of New Testament was written by 45 authors?

[Hope]

I'm aware that some people during the revised edition of the Bible omitted or changed certain words lah!

Recently I watched a video. A Christian lady confirmed bible has been changed.

[S I M T A N]

We Muslims can be 100% obedient to the statutes, to the best of our ability. We will indeed fall short at times like we may fall sick and could not fast when commanded, but we make up for it. But yes, all of God's commandments are doable. 

It is the same in the Jewish religion, even as it may be much tougher. For example, our "Sabbath" is only a few hours on Friday while theirs is 24 hours on Saturday. (Contrary to your understanding of Sabbath, it is not a day of rest. It is a day reserved for God, a worship day. On that day, they must abandon any worldly pursuit) The point is, that the law is not a curse. The law is guidance for us. The law is sacred, not accursed. 

Have you properly reflected upon Jesus's words saying anybody who teach people to put aside the law will be in hell?

I agree with you up to a point. The law is there to guide us through our spiritual odysseys. It's good and useful as far as it goes, but it's powerless to prevent us from transgressing the rules. When the New Testament says man cannot keep the law of God, it's not because he lacks a will or a mind and cannot understand what God requires, but rather because man doesn't have a proper disposition toward God. Man, in his fallenness, is in a state of enmity and estrangement from God.

The Scriptures tell us that the desires of man's heart are wicked continually, and acknowledge that man has a will, but that will is 'under the power' of sin and in 'bondage' to sin. The NT makes it abundantly clear that our noblest efforts at self-reformation or human virtue fall short of what God's holiness requires. Paul states it succinctly, "No flesh shall be justified by the works of the law" (Rom 3:20). Not only does the NT make it crystal clear that all our efforts at righteousness do not measure up to the demands of the law, it also adds the radical notion that we're morally incapable of doing what God requires.

Again, let's consider the most important moral duty there is. God tells us that the great commandment is to love the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength and to love others as much as we love ourselves. This commandment fills me with awe, and I straightaway know I haven't loved God with my whole heart and all of my mind for even 60 seconds in my life. None of us, I'm sure, loves every person in the world as much as we love ourselves. Just look at the way we argued with each other about theological issues over the past few months. We didn't have kindly feeling towards one another - only feelings of resentment bore by you, me and the others, including by Oyk who readily admitted to not being an exemplary Christian.

Really, nobody keeps the great commandment. So what's the big deal? If nobody abides by that particular law, it can't be that important, can it? Yet God calls it the great commandment. What if He considers the breaking of that law as the great transgression? What if we're judged ultimately by that law? The number of things one would have to do to keep the law is staggering. None of us can do it successfully.

If God deals with us ultimately on the basis of justice alone, we'll perish. We know that God is a God of love and wouldn't let any of us perish in the end. Now we're talking about grace. We need grace for liberation and reconciliation with God. For without grace we're left with our fallenness and must face the judgement of God on the basis of our own performance. The secret of the cross is that Jesus removed the law as a requirement for achieving righteousness with God Thank You, Lord.

Christianity places so much emphasis on grace through faith in Jesus Christ. It is precisely at this point that grace is on a collision course with Islamic philosophy of being 'law-abiding.' You're a 'law' man. You submit yourself to Allah and His laws in trying to earn His favor and hopefully earn your way to heaven. Do your best and hope for the best. Well, good luck to you. You need large doses of it.

[S I M T A N]

Christianity is the most hated religion for centuries 
The disciples died of tortured death except John who lived up to old ripe age.
Jesus said many tried to find the narrow gate but failed.
many people will hate u becos of Christ
Whoever endures to the end will be saved.
whenever u talk of the power n Goodness of Christ the moslems will come n attack.
because they need us to go heaven.

The Bible warns us that as believers, we must expect to face persecution and suffering for our faith. 2 Tim 3:12 likewise tell us, "All who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution." Suffering is a reality of the Christian life. God uses it to shape us. Anyone who expects or promises only good things is a false messenger or a misled individual.

[pinkpanther]

Quran talking about Gospel of Jesus. Where is the Gospel of Jesus?

Quran never mentions Old Testament, New Testament, Bible which your people named those.

You see how inadequate your Quran is! It is never clear! Your Quran says the Injeel is with us and Mohammed name was written in it...pls show me where!

If I tell you the injeel is the biography of Jesus according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John...can you prove me wrong?

[Hope]

Am I spreading falsehoods, my friend? When I challenge your beliefs based on evidence, your biased buddy tends to offer various excuses to claim that I’m spreading lies.... In fact, your friend has contributed to a negative perception of Islam by being in denial!

Those that are always in denial are those who are usually not very well read

Every one can challenge. No one defeats Islam.


˹The day will come when˺ the disbelievers will certainly wish they had submitted ˹to Allah˺.

˹So˺ let them eat and enjoy themselves and be diverted by ˹false˺ hope, for they will soon know.”Quran 15:2-3

“And whoever desires other than Islām as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.”Quran 3:85

[Hope]

Anyone who adds or subtracts any word from the Bible will be answerable to God on the Judgement Day lah!  Better don't anyhow say lah!

Jesus didn’t write the bible.Bible was not completed during his life time. How is a person answerable?
So many bibles have been removed already.

[Hope]

I'm glad to see you advocating for Islam, as that's something your buddy didn't address from the beginning....I believe your Quran mentions that Muslims shouldn't selectively choose verses from the Bible to attack...

Quran never talks about a Bible, New Testament and Old Testament.

He is not attacking. He tries his best to explain with Bible verses.

[pinkpanther]

Quran never talks about a Bible, New Testament and Old Testament.

He is not attacking. He tries his best to explain with Bible verses.

You sure your Quran never talk about the Bible aka the "kitab" in the Quran!

29:46-”And do not argue with the followers of earlier revelation otherwise than in a most kindly manner..”

3:199-“And, behold, among the followers of earlier revelation there are indeed such as [truly] believe in God..”

3:113-“[But] they are not all alike: among the followers of earlier revelation there are upright people,..”

The Qur'an Never Says the Bible was Corrupted

The Qur'an says some people of the Book were hypocrites (Sura 5:61-63) and perverted what they heard. However, it never said that God's word, given to the people of the Book, was changed. God has the power to give His word, and God has the power to guard His word in safety from corruption.

Sura 2:75 says of some people (Jews of Medina?), "Hear the Word of Allah, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it." It does not say they corrupted the Bible, only that they perverted what they understood


While the Qur'anic commentator Yusuf Ali tries to say the Biblical Gospel today is not the Injil (Gospel) meant in the Qur'an, the Qur'anic commentator Fazlur Rahman contradicts him. Jesus was taught the Gospel according to Sura 3:48, and Christians are the people of the Gospel in Sura 5:46. Finally, 'Aisha contradicts Yusuf Ali in Bukhari vol.4:605 and Sahih Muslim vol.1:301 p.98, where she tells that Khadija took Mohammed to a Christian convert who used to read the Gospels in Arabic.

[pinkpanther]

The Bible in Jesus' Day and Ours

Sura 3:48 says, "And Allah will teach him [Jesus] the book and Wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel."

"And in their [the prophets'] footsteps we sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Torah that had come before him: we sent him the gospel; therein was guidance and light. And confirmation of the Torah that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah" Sura 5:46

Now this verse of the Qur'an is remarkable. If God sent Jesus to confirm the Torah (first five books of the Bible's Old Testament), then at least in Jesus' time, the Torah that people could read and Jesus could confirm was the same Torah God sent.

It goes on. Sura 5:47 goes on to say "Let the People of the Gospel Judge by what Allah hath revealed Therein...." If the People of the Gospel are to judge by what God has revealed in the Gospel, then how can the Gospel they are to judge by not be the Gospel God told them to judge by?

Sura 5:48 says, "To thee (People of the Book) We sent the scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the truth that hath come to thee...."

Since God had the power to give His word, God had the power to guard His word in safety. Do you agree?

In modern times, some Arab boys found a cave at Qumran, wherein were a great number of scrolls from the time of Christ. Among the earliest was a scroll of Isaiah from a 100 years or so before Christ. These are called the Dead Sea Scrolls, and they contain all but one of the books of the Old Testament. Thus we can read for ourselves today the Old Testament in Jesus' time.

[pinkpanther]

Every one can challenge. No one defeats Islam.


˹The day will come when˺ the disbelievers will certainly wish they had submitted ˹to Allah˺.

˹So˺ let them eat and enjoy themselves and be diverted by ˹false˺ hope, for they will soon know.”Quran 15:2-3

“And whoever desires other than Islām as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.”Quran 3:85

I’ve never confronted you about spreading falsehoods, even when there are inaccuracies. I prefer to correct you rather than label you a liar whenever our views differ. I won’t stoop to the behavior of your friend....

[pinkpanther]

Quran never talks about a Bible, New Testament and Old Testament.

He is not attacking. He tries his best to explain with Bible verses.

 even my 3 yrs old son can interprete better than him!

[cheekopekman]

Jesus didn’t write the bible.Bible was not completed during his life time. How is a person answerable?
So many bibles have been removed already.

Jesus is the Word that became flesh and the Word was God lah!  God's Word in the Bible is His Word lah!

[pinkpanther]

Jesus is the Word that became flesh and the Word was God lah!  God's Word in the Bible is His Word lah!

JESUS IS MADE FLESH

In John 1:14, we read, “And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.” The plain meaning of those words is, that the second person of the Trinity, who always existed now took on himself our human nature. He who is God now also became a man. A big word for that is incarnation

[pinkpanther]

What will happen to People who followed gospel of Thomas?
Until 4th century how did they practice your religion?

Why does the Quran borrow from the Gospel of Thomas?
You think Allah revealed the Gospel of Thomas to Muhammad ? Use your brain lah!


The issue is not that Muhammad plagiarized the Arabic Infancy Gospel of Thomas. Rather, the argument is that Muhammad heard Christians referring to this story and therefore decided to include it in his Quran since he erroneously assumed that it was an actual miracle performed by the historical Jesus.

[cheekopekman]

JESUS IS MADE FLESH

In John 1:14, we read, “And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.” The plain meaning of those words is, that the second person of the Trinity, who always existed now took on himself our human nature. He who is God now also became a man. A big word for that is incarnation

Most people cannot understand the concept of God the Incarnate lah!  How can God who is Spirit become a man with body leh?  Hard to explain lah! No logic lah!

[pinkpanther]

Most people cannot understand the concept of God the Incarnate lah!  How can God who is Spirit become a man with body leh?  Hard to explain lah! No logic lah!

God appeared as one of 3 men when he visited Abrahim!

Moslem God and their angel Jibril also take on human form...

They also must suck thumb and agree!

[cheekopekman]

How many authors?
Is it true 27books of New Testament was written by 45 authors?

I give you a clue lah!  Moses wrote the 1st 5 books, also known as Torah or Pentateuch: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy lah! You go and count how many authors in the Bible lah! They are all in the Bible lah!

[Hope]

You sure your Quran never talk about the Bible aka the "kitab" in the Quran!

29:46-”And do not argue with the followers of earlier revelation otherwise than in a most kindly manner..”

3:199-“And, behold, among the followers of earlier revelation there are indeed such as [truly] believe in God..”

3:113-“[But] they are not all alike: among the followers of earlier revelation there are upright people,..”

The Qur'an Never Says the Bible was Corrupted

The Qur'an says some people of the Book were hypocrites (Sura 5:61-63) and perverted what they heard. However, it never said that God's word, given to the people of the Book, was changed. God has the power to give His word, and God has the power to guard His word in safety from corruption.

Sura 2:75 says of some people (Jews of Medina?), "Hear the Word of Allah, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it." It does not say they corrupted the Bible, only that they perverted what they understood


While the Qur'anic commentator Yusuf Ali tries to say the Biblical Gospel today is not the Injil (Gospel) meant in the Qur'an, the Qur'anic commentator Fazlur Rahman contradicts him. Jesus was taught the Gospel according to Sura 3:48, and Christians are the people of the Gospel in Sura 5:46. Finally, 'Aisha contradicts Yusuf Ali in Bukhari vol.4:605 and Sahih Muslim vol.1:301 p.98, where she tells that Khadija took Mohammed to a Christian convert who used to read the Gospels in Arabic.

Kitab means single book. Bible is not a kitab.
If the Quran you have Is from your theology school or church, you should find a real Quran from Muslim sources.
Most of your verses are incomplete . Hence I have pasted those here for your understanding.


“Do not argue with the People of the Book unless gracefully, except with those of them who act wrongfully. And say, “We believe in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to you. Our God and your God is ˹only˺One. And to Him we ˹fully˺ submit.”Quran 29:46

“Indeed, there are some among the People of the Book who truly believe in Allah and what has been revealed to you ˹believers˺ and what was revealed to them. They humble themselves before Allah—never trading Allah’s revelations for a fleeting gain. Their reward is with their Lord. Surely Allah is swift in reckoning.”Quran 3:199

“Yet they are not all alike: there are some among the People of the Book who are upright, who recite Allah’s revelations throughout the night, prostrating ˹in prayer˺”Quran 3:113

“When they come to you ˹believers˺ they say, “We believe.” But they are committed to disbelief when they enter and when they leave. And Allah knows what they hide.”Quran 5:61

“You see many of them racing towards sin, transgression, and consumption of forbidden gain. Evil indeed are their actions”Quran 5:62

“Why do their rabbis and scholars not forbid them from saying what is sinful and consuming what is unlawful? Evil indeed is their inaction!”Quran 5:63

“Do you ˹believers still˺ expect them to be true to you, though a group of them would hear the word of Allah then knowingly corrupt it after understanding it?”Quran 2:75

[pinkpanther]

Kitab means single book. Bible is not a kitab.
If the Quran you have Is from your theology school or church, you should find a real Quran from Muslim sources.
Most of your verses are incomplete . Hence I have pasted those here for your understanding.


“Do

Who says The Holy Bible is not a kitab?
Al-Kitab al-Muqaddas (Holy Bible)

Yes, the Bible can be referred to as a "Kitab," which is an Arabic word meaning "book." In Islamic tradition, the Bible is acknowledged as a significant religious text, although Muslims believe that the Quran is the final revelation. The term "Kitab" is often used to denote any important religious scripture, including the Quran, the Bible, and other holy texts. So, in that sense, the Bible is indeed considered a "Kitab."

I hope this will enrich your Islamic knowledge!

[S I M T A N]

Most people cannot understand the concept of God the Incarnate lah!  How can God who is Spirit become a man with body leh?  Hard to explain lah! No logic lah!

God's Holy Spirit has a special role in the process of redemption. In every stage, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit cooperate to perform crucial acts. Matthew 1:18 gives us an inkling of the process of redemption that began with Jesus' incarnation: "The birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit."

Luke 1:34,35 describes Mary's incredulity and the angel Gabriel's response: "Then Mary said to the angel, 'How can this be, since I do not know a man?' And the angel answered and said to her, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God."

The Holy Spirit actually formed the infant Jesus within Mary's womb. Jesus wasn't born of natural seed even though Joseph, Jesus' earthly father, was of the house and lineage of David (Luke 1:27) The Bible says the power of the Most High overshadowed Mary (Luke 1:35). Therefore, Jesus was born of supernatural seed; supernaturally Jesus was the seed and lineage of David.

[cheekopekman]

God's Holy Spirit has a special role in the process of redemption. In every stage, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit cooperate to perform crucial acts. Matthew 1:18 gives us an inkling of the process of redemption that began with Jesus' incarnation: "The birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit."

Luke 1:34,35 describes Mary's incredulity and the angel Gabriel's response: "Then Mary said to the angel, 'How can this be, since I do not know a man?' And the angel answered and said to her, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God."

The Holy Spirit actually formed the infant Jesus within Mary's womb. Jesus wasn't born of natural seed even though Joseph, Jesus' earthly father, was of the house and lineage of David (Luke 1:27) The Bible says the power of the Most High overshadowed Mary (Luke 1:35). Therefore, Jesus was born of supernatural seed; supernaturally Jesus was the seed and lineage of David.

Well said lah, bro!  Thanks for your inputs lah!

[pinkpanther]

Kitab means single book. Bible is not a kitab.
If the Quran you have Is from your theology school or church, you should find a real Quran from Muslim sources.
Most of your verses are incomplete . Hence I have pasted those here for your understanding.

I would like to test your Islamic knowledge  ..let's have a quiz!

What is the correct answer?
Allah creates humans from.......

1. “nothing”;
2. “clay”;
3. “water”;
4. “dust”;
5. Adam from clay, then humans from “the extract of a liquid disdained”;
“sticky clay”;
6. Or “clinging substance” or “blood clot” in other translations.

What is the correct answer?

[Hope]

Who says The Holy Bible is not a kitab?
Al-Kitab al-Muqaddas (Holy Bible)

Yes, the Bible can be referred to as a "Kitab," which is an Arabic word meaning "book." In Islamic tradition, the Bible is acknowledged as a significant religious text, although Muslims believe that the Quran is the final revelation. The term "Kitab" is often used to denote any important religious scripture, including the Quran, the Bible, and other holy texts. So, in that sense, the Bible is indeed considered a "Kitab."

I hope this will enrich your Islamic knowledge!

When We have printed Quran,Easy access to online Quran, millions of people who have memorised the entire Quran,You were dare to adjust the Quran verses and posted those to suit your need.Because you didn’t want Christian to know the truth.
Imagine , Two thousand years ago how could have those affluent in Rome and Europe changed the Bible to suit their need?

You are so wicked as your early Christian in Rome and Europe.

[pinkpanther]

When We have printed Quran,Easy access to online Quran, millions of people who have memorised the entire Quran,You were dare to adjust the Quran verses and posted those to suit your need.Because you didn’t want Christian to know the truth.
Imagine , Two thousand years ago how could have those affluent in Rome and Europe changed the Bible to suit their need?

You are so wicked as your early Christian in Rome and Europe.

How many versions of the Quran existed? Your version of the Quran is Huffs...but there are at least 3 more in circulation

[pinkpanther]

When We have printed Quran,Easy access to online Quran, millions of people who have memorised the entire Quran,You were dare to adjust the Quran verses and posted those to suit your need.Because you didn’t want Christian to know the truth.
Imagine , Two thousand years ago how could have those affluent in Rome and Europe changed the Bible to suit their need?

You are so wicked as your early Christian in Rome and Europe.

Muhammad borrowed so much from the Infancy gospel of Thomas but why he doesn't have a detailed account of Jesus when he reached adulthood!

It's like me asking your opinion about your friend, but you can only share memories from his childhood.....  This is what the Quran tells you!

We find the Gospel of Thomas not reliable but Muhammad likes it wor!

[pinkpanther]

The way I see it Muslims can only claim 3 possible answers:

Answer one: Is a coincidence

Basically is a coincidence that the author of the infancy gospel of Thomas got an account of Jesus's life as accurate as a divine revelation from Allah

Answer two: The author knew of a tradition no one else knew.

I guess you can answer with this although It would still be rather odd because the text proclaims Jesus as having God-like powers and even has claims of him being born before creation etc.

Answer three: The author received part of a revelation?

I dont know still doesnt make sense like said, the gospel portrays Jesus as born before creation.

It seems like this is a HUGE problem for them right? Because it portrays a strong argument that Muhammad would have included in the Quran not divine revelations but stories and traditions he heard from some place, knowing that Medina was a place with many religious diversity is possible that an account of the gospel of Thomas was recited by someone there, and Muhammad picked it up thinking it to be canonical or fact.

How do Muslims reply to this?

If Muhammad did copied from the Gospel of Thomas....then the Quran, the uncreated Word of God debunked!

The Quran never says that Thomas also received the revelations word!

[Lukongsimi]

I would like to test your Islamic knowledge  ..let's have a quiz!

What is the correct answer?
Allah creates humans from.......

1. “nothing”;
2. “clay”;
3. “water”;
4. “dust”;
5. Adam from clay, then humans from “the extract of a liquid disdained”;
“sticky clay”;
6. Or “clinging substance” or “blood clot” in other translations.

What is the correct answer?

Can’t be clay or water
When the dead are cremated it turned into ashes not sticky clay.
When they are buried after years later they become skeletons

[Lukongsimi]

Recently I watched a video. A Christian lady confirmed bible has been changed.

She could be a fakey to confuse people
Some words may be changed for easier understanding

[Ali Imran]

She could be a fakey to confuse people

The Bible produces all kinds of understanding. Some followers of the Bible say God is a unity and some say God is a Trinity. Both parties got that information from the Bible.

Why is the Bible like that?