[Ali Imran]

Like it or not u are just a sinful man in need of a savior.
Pray 500 times fast for days no use
Like the Pharisee outside a white wash tomb
Inside full of dry bones

Imagine we are at the time of Prophet Ezekiel, which means before Jesus. What were we told to believe? The answer is to read Ezekiel. In chapter 18, it says that if we repent, keep the commandments, and mend our ways, God will erase our sins and we will be saved. 

Do you agree that it was a very different faith from yours at the time of Prophet Ezekiel?

[Lukongsimi]

Imagine we are at the time of Prophet Ezekiel, which means before Jesus. What were we told to believe? The answer is to read Ezekiel. In chapter 18, it says that if we repent, keep the commandments, and mend our ways, God will erase our sins and we will be saved. 

Do you agree that it was a very different faith from yours at the time of Prophet Ezekiel?

Most people failed to keep the commandments that is why we need the Saviour

[pinkpanther]

Used to live near a mosque in my schooling days 
The echo of prayer so loud I need not any alarm clock 
I don’t know why whenever I heard the prayer I feel very uncomfortable

Same here...the morning prayers doesn't bring peace because it is echo not in a rythem....but I have also heard a few that is quite soothing and musical from their verses

[Lukongsimi]

Same here...the morning prayers doesn't bring peace because it is echo not in a rythem....but I have also heard a few that is quite soothing and musical from their verses

Maybe the soothing ones are from angels taught 
To teach them the correct prayers ?

[pinkpanther]

Most people failed to keep the commandments that is why we need the Saviour

Correct .No one can keep the commandments perfectly..because we all fall short lah

[pinkpanther]

Maybe the soothing ones are from angels taught 
To teach them the correct prayers ?

The not soothing ones are taught by Satan 

[Ali Imran]

Most people failed to keep the commandments that is why we need the Saviour

Ok. I won't argue with you. Many of us are weak and fall easily. But we are told that a few among us can keep the commandments fully. 

Anyhow, the important thing Ezekiel 18 taught us is that we must believe God is very forgiving and will easily forgive our sins. Yes, we fall short of keeping the commandments, but if we keep trying and keep asking God for forgiveness for our shortcomings, God will give us salvation.

What Ezekiel taught, that God is most forgiving, is confirmed in the Quran. Forgiveness and mercy are among the most mentioned attributes of Allah in the Quran.

What you believe is different.

[pinkpanther]

Hello Eziekiel speaks of the new convenant and the good Shepard...how can you skip that...funny how he brings in the OT to make his point? Do moslems also follow the OT since it is still God's words or do you follow Muhammad? If you want to bring out the OT, then you should know what Muhammad will received when he talks about goddess alaat

Deuteronomy 18:20 states: "But any prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.

[Lukongsimi]

Hello Eziekiel speaks of the new convenant and the good Shepard...how can you skip that...funny how he brings in the OT to make his point? Do moslems also follow the OT since it is still God's words or do you follow Muhammad? If you want to bring out the OT, then you should know what Muhammad will received when he talks about  goddess alaat

Deuteronomy 18:20 states: "But any prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.

Yes we are now with the new convenant 
Christ is the mediator to bring us back to God
For we have sinned n fell short of the glory of God
That moslem ask can direct ask for forgiveness from God that is impossible 
prayers can’t reach God without Jesus 
How sodom n Gomorrah were destroyed left only Lot n his 2 daughters.
Noah flood,left only Noah n his family of 8.
God is a consuming fire 

When we pray we ask Jesus to pray for us
He is the sacrificial lamb who saves us.

[pinkpanther]

Yes we are now with the new convenant 
Christ is the mediator to bring us back to God
For we have sinned n fell short of the glory of God
That moslem ask can direct ask for forgiveness from God that is impossible 
prayers can’t reach God without Jesus 
How sodom n Gomorrah were destroyed left only Lot n his 2 daughters.
Noah flood,left only Noah n his family of 8.
God is a consuming fire 

When we pray we ask Jesus to pray for us
He is the sacrificial lamb who saves us.

Correct...the moslem talks so much but also don follow OT laws ..

[pinkpanther]

John 8:56-58 (NIV) reads:

56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
57 "You are not yet fifty years old," they said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58 "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

[pinkpanther]

Hebrews 1:3 (NIV):

"The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven."

[pinkpanther]

The Quran says that Jesus has to ask for Allah's permission to create life or perform miracles ...but in the Bible..

Matthew 28:18: “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”

[S I M T A N]

He has no clue what salvation is about
Comparison of Paul  and Jesus is not about salvation
Salvation is that you believe Jesus is the only way the truth and the life

When it comes to the crux of the gospel message, Ali Imran isn't clueless. He has elementary notions of the gospel but has difficulty imagining one God in three persons. The triune God and other spiritual things are a closed book to him. That comes of spiritual blindness. The Greek word for "blindness" denotes a hardness of heart. It's with the heart that we perceive spiritually.

As a bred-in-the-bone Muslim, he rejects the core beliefs of the Christian faith outright - such as the trinity, the deity of Christ and His resurrection. No one in history could have wanted to disprove the resurrection more than the temple authorities or the Roman hierarchy. In subsequent years, no force would have wanted to rob Christianity of that claim more than Islam did.

The gospel is a call for everyone of us to die - to die to sin and to die to self - and to gladly deny ourselves in order to experience entirely new life in Christ. This is the essence of what it means to be a Christain. Will Ali bring himself to do it? Not on his life. To accept the church's teachings is to depart from his own faith.

His lifelong obsession with theological debates with Christians is very much in evidence. And his usual plan of attack is to amplify seemingly contradictory verses in the Bible and then put his own interpretation on those passages. A verse alone taken out of context violates other scripture. All the Christian jousters in other forums eventually disengaged themselves one by one from debates with him after being totally worn out by his dogged persistence, leaving him the last man standing and having the final say in the argument but not the objective truth. It seems that he's met his match right here.

[S I M T A N]

Every prophet of God is the way to God. That is a given. Prophets were sent as guidance for mankind to return to God. Ergo, Jesus was the way to God for the people he was sent to. Moses was also the way to God for his people of his time. Ditto for the rest of the prophets. 

Peace and blessings be to the prophets mentioned.

Moses is arguably the greatest of the OT prophets, but Jesus was more than a prophet. "Moses was faithful in all his house as a servant... but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house" (Heb 3:5-6). While Moses served God, Jesus was declared to be the Son of God with the right to rule over all servants. Simply speaking, Moses never claimed to be God, but Jesus did (John 8:58; 10:30). Moses gave the law of God (John 1:17), but Jesus was the only One who ever fulfilled the law (Rom 8：2-4). Moses gave the law that condemns us (Rom 8:3), but Jesus provided the grace that redeems us (John 1:17; Gal 3:13)

[S I M T A N]

I reject this idea "died for our sin" because it is an injustice. I don't want an innocent man to die just so I could be saved. 

I must take responsibility for my actions and not expect others to bear my guilt. I believe that is the morally right thing to do.

Ok. I won't argue with you. Many of us are weak and fall easily. But we are told that a few among us can keep the commandments fully. 

Anyhow, the important thing Ezekiel 18 taught us is that we must believe God is very forgiving and will easily forgive our sins. Yes, we fall short of keeping the commandments, but if we keep trying and keep asking God for forgiveness for our shortcomings, God will give us salvation.

What Ezekiel taught, that God is most forgiving, is confirmed in the Quran. Forgiveness and mercy are among the most mentioned attributes of Allah in the Quran.

What you believe is different.

You want justice on your terms? Well, it can only be on God's terms, not yours. For your info, there's a fundamental difference between personal atonement (paying for your own sins) and vicarious atonement (having the penalty paid by another). The former is the law of karma (which is incompatible with mercy), and the latter, the rule of grace (the highest form of mercy shown in Christendom).

Because Christ was sinless, his death was not necessary to pay for His own sin. Nevertheless, His life was voluntarily given to pay the penalty for the sins of others (John 10:17-18). "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him (2 Cor 5:21). Christ's substitutionary atonement paid all of our "karmic debt" through his own suffering. He had no Karma of His own, but He suffered and died for our sins.

[pinkpanther]

Not on All the Christian jousters in other forums eventually disengaged themselves one by one from debates with him after being totally worn out by his dogged persistence, leaving him the last man standing and having the final say in the argument but not the objective truth. It seems that he's met his match right here.

I believe he will regret staying here past his welcome. Overall, we Christians have managed to undermine his credibility, turning him into nothing more than a desperate debater, and his attempts to attack our faith have fallen flat... Here, he faces his demise, and he must certainly regret coming here.

[pinkpanther]

https://youtube.com/shorts/mEhJtnwXqrk?s...dbUI4jXBLr

[pinkpanther]

https://youtube.com/shorts/FRw17vi0RLM?s...d91km8Pj6S

[Lukongsimi]

When it comes to the crux of the gospel message, Ali Imran isn't clueless. He has elementary notions of the gospel but has difficulty imagining one God in three persons. The triune God and other spiritual things are a closed book to him. That comes of spiritual blindness. The Greek word for "blindness" denotes a hardness of heart. It's with the heart that we perceive spiritually.

As a bred-in-the-bone Muslim, he rejects the core beliefs of the Christian faith outright - such as the trinity, the deity of Christ and His resurrection. No one in history could have wanted to disprove the resurrection more than the temple authorities or the Roman hierarchy. In subsequent years, no force would have wanted to rob Christianity of that claim more than Islam did.

The gospel is a call for everyone of us to die - to die to sin and to die to self - and to gladly deny ourselves in order to experience entirely new life in Christ. This is the essence of what it means to be a Christain. Will Ali bring himself to do it? Not on his life. To accept the church's teachings is to depart from his own faith.

His lifelong obsession with theological debates with Christians is very much in evidence. And his usual plan of attack is to amplify seemingly contradictory verses in the Bible and then put his own interpretation on those passages. A verse alone taken out of context violates other scripture. All the Christian jousters in other forums eventually disengaged themselves one by one from debates with him after being totally worn out by his dogged persistence, leaving him the last man standing and having the final say in the argument but not the objective truth. It seems that he's met his match right here.

He builds his own castle refuse to accept Christ as the Saviour who died for our sin 
Thinking hell is temporary and eventually all will go to heaven.
To him there is no eternal punishment 
Their teachings is different more to killings  hatred 
See any Jew hiding behind any tree just kill them 
Woman to be slapped if disobedience to their man 
In Bible man has to love their wife and not to divorce and marry again 
it’s adultery!

[Ali Imran]

When it comes to the crux of the gospel message, Ali Imran isn't clueless. He has elementary notions of the gospel but has difficulty imagining one God in three persons. The triune God and other spiritual things are a closed book to him. That comes of spiritual blindness. The Greek word for "blindness" denotes a hardness of heart. It's with the heart that we perceive spiritually.

You cannot accuse me of spiritual blindness for rejecting the Trinity because I have explained clearly why I reject it.
1. No prophets of God ever taught us that God is a Trinity.
2. The scriptures don't explicitly support the doctrine of the Trinity. You can only show me ambiguous verses.
3. The scriptures reject the idea of the Trinity. I have shown explicit, unambiguous verses.
4. It is illogical. Jesus said we are to use our hearts and minds, not just the heart. The mind cannot accept it if it is illogical, and the Trinity is illogical. 
5. Last but not least, I know how Jesus's status was eventually elevated. We can say based on the scriptures, that at the time of Pentecost, Jesus was still just a man. Peter said so.

[Ali Imran]

You want justice on your terms? Well, it can only be on God's terms, not yours. For your info, there's a fundamental difference between personal atonement (paying for your own sins) and vicarious atonement (having the penalty paid by another). The former is the law of karma (which is incompatible with mercy), and the latter, the rule of grace (the highest form of mercy shown in Christendom).

Because Christ was sinless, his death was not necessary to pay for His own sin. Nevertheless, His life was voluntarily given to pay the penalty for the sins of others (John 10:17-18). "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him (2 Cor 5:21). Christ's substitutionary atonement paid all of our "karmic debt" through his own suffering. He had no Karma of His own, but He suffered and died for our sins.

What Ezekiel chapter 18 says is ignored by you because there is no stipulation for payment of any kind. God can just erase our sins. That is what forgiveness is all about. 

Justice is justice. If an innocent man is punished for the wrongdoings of others, that is unjust, period.

[Ali Imran]

No one in history could have wanted to disprove the resurrection more than the temple authorities or the Roman hierarchy. 

The Romans were in power, not the temple authorities. As for the Romans, they loved this resurrection thingy. The ancient Roman mythology has at least one Jesus-like personality in terms of resurrection. 

So you're wrong to say the Romans would want to disprove the resurrection.

[Ali Imran]

Moses is arguably the greatest of the OT prophets, but Jesus was more than a prophet. "Moses was faithful in all his house as a servant... but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house" (Heb 3:5-6). While Moses served God, Jesus was declared to be the Son of God with the right to rule over all servants. Simply speaking, Moses never claimed to be God, but Jesus did (John 8:58; 10:30). Moses gave the law of God (John 1:17), but Jesus was the only One who ever fulfilled the law (Rom 8：2-4). Moses gave the law that condemns us (Rom 8:3), but Jesus provided the grace that redeems us (John 1:17; Gal 3:13)

No, I don't see anywhere in the NT where Jesus claimed to be God. When he was accused of making that claim, he refuted the accusation.

[Ali Imran]

He has no clue what salvation is about
Comparison of Paul  and Jesus is not about salvation
Salvation is that you believe Jesus is the only way the truth and the life

Surely we must compare the teachings on salvation between Paul and Jesus. They are not the same.

If you follow Paul, that means you must disregard what Jesus said about salvation.

We can discuss this important issue with civility. We must get it right.

[Lukongsimi]

U r a moslem n u follow muh
What is Jesus n Paul to u?

[Lukongsimi]

Paul said


“But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭1‬:‭11‬-‭12‬ ‭NKJV

[Ali Imran]

U r a moslem n u follow muh
What is Jesus n Paul to u?

Jesus is the Messiah, a prophet of God. Peace be upon him.

Paul was a suspicious personality. His teachings were rejected by the disciples, like James and Peter.

[Lukongsimi]

Your muh not suspicious personality ?
Paul didn’t messed with under aged girls or taught people to kill.
He was chosen by Jesus to preach to the gentiles.

[Ali Imran]

Your muh not suspicious personality ?

No, not at all. Our Prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم, is probably the most transparent person in history.