[Oyk]

Ok thank you for that. I appreciate that you explain it to me clearly. I do blame myself for not making my arguments clearer. 

I dismiss the notion that the Quran came from satan because the Quran states in a few places that satan is our clear and mortal enemy. The Quranic teachings are all anti-satanic, like worshipping only 1 God, being kind to our aging parents, the orphans, the poor, those in need, and so on. There are plenty more teachings that are not what one would expect from satan. 

I also dismiss the notion that it was satan who gave it to our prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم. The prophet's first main audience was the pagans, telling them to stop worshipping false gods, which is something satan would not want them to do. 

So, if we rule out satan, that leaves us with only the 2 angels, Gabriel and Michael. Tradition has it that it has always been Gabriel who delivers messages from God. Plus, our Hadith states that the angel identifies him as Jibril at the 2nd meeting. So, we have no doubt that it was Gabriel.

So there, I didn't reference the Bible this time.

Well done. 

All religions teach us to be good. Therefore being filial, honouring your parents, giving to the poor...I think some Buddhists do that better than many Christians and Moslems. So let's not be fooled by exhortations to do good and use those as a benchmark for truth because otherwise you must also be a Buddhist and Hindu, and of course Christian.

You'd then argue that Islam is different because it only allows peepur to worship one god.

So do Christianity and Judaism. 

Are you saying that Christians worship Satan?

[Oyk]

Start another thread on SATAN only lah, Ali!

In such a thread, he will say that Paul and Muh are not Satan but one of them is preaching Satanic doctrines.

He said it's not Muh so he's leaving us in no doubt that it's Paul.

[Ali Imran]

Well done. 

All religions teach us to be good. Therefore being filial, honouring your parents, giving to the poor...I think some Buddhists do that better than many Christians and Moslems. So let's not be fooled by exhortations to do good and use those as a benchmark for truth because otherwise you must also be a Buddhist and Hindu, and of course Christian.

You'd then argue that Islam is different because it only allows peepur to worship one god.

So do Christianity and Judaism. 

Are you saying that Christians worship Satan?

No, that wasn't the purpose of my post earlier. My arguments are for ruling out satan as the author of the Quran.

The author of the Quran cannot be satan because the Quran exhorts the believers to do all that satan would not want us to do, and to avoid all that satan would want us to do.

[Lukongsimi]

I won’t worship a humsap that is unsound mind

[pinkpanther]

In such a thread, he will say that Paul and Muh are not Satan but one of them is preaching Satanic doctrines.

He said it's not Muh so he's leaving us in no doubt that it's Paul.

Eerh....the Bible recognises Satan as the greatest Deceiver.... The Quran freely admits that Allah is the greatest Deceiver...

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allah,_the_Be...27an_3:54)

http://64.71.77.248/answering_islam/sham...eiver.html

[pinkpanther]

I won’t worship a humsap that is unsound mind

Brother is right! Everything is abt sex, 4 wives, unlimited concubines, have sex freely with captives, guaranteed 72 virgins and a ever lasting erection....underage marriage!

[Lukongsimi]

Brother is right! Everything is abt sex, 4 wives, unlimited concubines, have sex freely with captives, guaranteed 72 virgins and an duktery ever lasting erection....underage marriage!

Adultery,lust,fornication is the gate way to hell
Worse than eat pork

[pinkpanther]

Ok. We can agree the Son has a God. Does the Father have a God?

All equal status !! Three separate beings in the Godhead!

[pinkpanther]

Adultery,lust,fornication is the gate way to hell
Worse than eat pork

[Ali Imran]

All equal status !! Three separate beings in the Godhead!

Is each of them fully God? If we put it mathematically, is each of them 100% God?

If you say yes, then you have a Godhead that is 300% God, which is illogical. 

Or would you like to say no?

[pinkpanther]

Is each of them fully God? If we put it mathematically, is each of them 100% God?

If you say yes, then you have a Godhead that is 300% God, which is illogical. 

Or would you like to say no?

Is it logical to debate God if god could supersede logic?
What logic would make sense to you?
The most important question is not whether you can figure out the Godhead or the Trinity...it's whether they are true! 

And how do you know if it is true?? Word of god..the bible!
I'm told the one God is the Father, with his eternal son and his eternal spirit and that the one god cannot be other than the father with his eternal son and his eternal spirit!

[Oyk]

Brother is right! Everything is abt sex, 4 wives, unlimited concubines, have sex freely with captives, guaranteed 72 virgins and a ever lasting erection....underage marriage!

All these are carnal. It sends one into a mental orgy just by thinking of the endless sex with so many virgins. This is a reward from Allah? Something from this world?

Jesus was also offered rewards from this world if he would just worship Satan. He'd get the kingdoms and wealth... 

In contrast, the rewards which God has prepared for us are not the above, women, kingdoms and money. They are things which eyes hath not seen neither hath ears heard. Even Satan would not be able to counterfeit because he has no idea what these are. He could only tempt with worldly carnal rewards for he is the god of this world. 

I watched another beedio... is Allah the same God of the Bible. Ali should watch it but he probably will scoff and sneer. 

https://www.youtube.com/live/ctSb7v-7uO8...bkb254i61K

[Oyk]

No, that wasn't the purpose of my post earlier. My arguments are for ruling out satan as the author of the Quran.

The author of the Quran cannot be satan because the Quran exhorts the believers to do all that satan would not want us to do, and to avoid all that satan would want us to do.

I repeat, for the last time, all religions tell us to do good.

If you say that a teaching such as Islam can't be from Satan because it tells you to do good, then all religions must be from God.

Do you see how fallacious that kind of argument is?

By the way why are you not answering my question in the last para? Let me save you the trouble of scrolling and just write it here again. Are you saying that Christians are worshipping Satan?

[Lukongsimi]

Just now bash one Lau Satan gemster now went hiding.

[Oyk]

Eerh....the Bible recognises Satan as the greatest Deceiver.... The Quran freely admits that Allah is the greatest Deceiver...

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allah,_the_Be...27an_3:54)

http://64.71.77.248/answering_islam/sham...eiver.html

That makes it even more baffling because if the Quran is in fact from Satan, it's rather paradoxical for Satan (through supposedly Jibril) to force Muh to write down that Allah is the greatest Deceiver.

One would expect the Quran to say that Allah does not deceive because the nature of God is Truth.

Then for some reason, the Qur'an does not mention Paul and say that Satan had used Paul to deceive the world. Therefore one may take it that Pauline teachings are from God because the Bible says so and the Quran does not say that it is not so.

[cheekopekman]

In such a thread, he will say that Paul and Muh are not Satan but one of them is preaching Satanic doctrines.

He said it's not Muh so he's leaving us in no doubt that it's Paul.

Satan came into the world in the form of a snake 🐍 in Genesis 3:1 lah!  That's the beginning of sin lah!

[pinkpanther]

That makes it even more baffling because if the Quran is in fact from Satan, it's rather paradoxical for Satan (through supposedly Jibril) to force Muh to write down that Allah is the greatest Deceiver.

One would expect the Quran to say that Allah does not deceive because the nature of God is Truth.

Then for some reason, the Qur'an does not mention Paul and say that Satan had used Paul to deceive the world. Therefore one may take it that Pauline teachings are from God because the Bible says so and the Quran does not say that it is not so.

One of the disciples also use deceit to conceal the real identity of Gabriel...only when pressed further..he would agreed and revealed Gabriel as the Holy spirit...if not we would certainly be deceived into thinking Gabriel was an angel!

If the character of the disciple is not truthful, it will reflect badly on his beliefs...
But if it is a honest mistake, just admit and all will be forgiven...tiok boh! Let's pray for this brother to turn to Christianity for help!

[Oyk]

Satan came into the world in the form of a snake 🐍 in Genesis 3:1 lah!  That's the beginning of sin lah!

I still don't understand why he had to speak through a snake. Another account of demons entering an animal's body is about the pigs which drowned. 

I understand that angels don't have bodies but I don't understand why they need a body to communicate with humans. After all Michael and Gabriel didn't have to enter an animal's body... so why did Satan need to use a snake's body leh?

PS. Am not asking you to answer that question.

[Lukongsimi]

Satan came into the world in the form of a snake 🐍 in Genesis 3:1 lah!  That's the beginning of sin lah!

Adam and Eve saw snake n dare talk to it n believe it’s words 
We see snake already Siam far

[Oyk]

One of the disciples also use deceit to conceal the real identity of Gabriel...only when pressed further..he would agreed and revealed Gabriel as the Holy spirit...if not we would certainly be deceived into thinking Gabriel was an angel!

If the character of the disciple is not truthful, it will reflect badly on his beliefs...
But if it is a honest mistake, just admit and all will be forgiven...tiok boh! Let's pray for this brother to turn to Christianity for help!

It's still not known what spirit had appeared to Muh. 

While we can expect anyone to be alarmed/frightened if he sees an apparition, but we would expect it to speak in a calming voice that reassures us, and that God wouldn't sit back and watch like a sadist because He just enjoys seeing us jump out of our skin.

In the case of Muh, this spirit was violent and seemed to be full of hatred, and lording over a man to whom God, as the Moslems claimed, had sent to tell him to write the Quran.

It didn't go like....Do not fear! I bring Allah's message to you. Write.

Instead Muh was pinned to the ground with a supernatural force and ordered to write. Muh replied that he didn't know how to write, and the apparition pinned him to the ground with a super mighty force again. It happened thrice. This does not jive with the description of God as One who loves us, of the portrayal of Jesus who was gentle. It had everything satanic all about it, the violence which was inflicted on Muh.

[cheekopekman]

I still don't understand why he had to speak through a snake. Another account of demons entering an animal's body is about the pigs which drowned. 

I understand that angels don't have bodies but I don't understand why they need a body to communicate with humans. After all Michael and Gabriel didn't have to enter an animal's body... so why did Satan need to use a snake's body leh?

PS. Am not asking you to answer that question.

Adam and Eve saw snake n dare talk to it n believe it’s words 
We see snake already Siam far

Good questions and comments lah!  There are many things in the Bible that are beyond human logical explanations lah! 1 day when we meet the Lord we will know lah!

[pinkpanther]

It's still not known what spirit had appeared to Muh. 

While we can expect anyone to be alarmed/frightened if he sees an apparition, but we would expect it to speak in a calming voice that reassures us, and that God wouldn't sit back and watch like a sadist because He just enjoys seeing us jump out of our skin.

In the case of Muh, this spirit was violent and seemed to be full of hatred, and lording over a man to whom God, as the Moslems claimed, had sent to tell him to write the Quran.

It didn't go like....Do not fear! I bring Allah's message to you. Write.

Instead Muh was pinned to the ground with a supernatural force and ordered to write. Muh replied that he didn't know how to write, and the apparition pinned him to the ground with a super mighty force again. It happened thrice. This does not jive with the description of God as One who loves us, of the portrayal of Jesus who was gentle. It had everything satanic all about it, the violence which was inflicted on Muh.

Remember this! The Prophet was under the spell of black magic for close to a year according to the hadith and his wife Aisha attested to this incident..

Mohammed at one point was bewitched: "Narrated 'Aisha: Magic was worked on the Prophet so that he began to fancy that he was doing a thing which he was not actually doing. 
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet continued for such-and-such a period imagining that he has had sexual relation with his wife, and in fact he had not

 This leads us to many doubts! Why did God allow this to happen and did this mysterious entity play a part in scaring the prophet?

[Lukongsimi]

Remember this! The Prophet was under the spell of black magic for close to a year according to the hadith and his wife Aisha attested to this incident..

Mohammed at one point was bewitched: "Narrated 'Aisha: Magic was worked on the Prophet so that he began to fancy that he was doing a thing which he was not actually doing. 
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet continued for such-and-such a period imagining that he has had sexual relation with his wife, and in fact he had not

 This leads us to many doubts! Why did God allow this to happen and did this mysterious entity play a part in scaring the prophet?

A true prophet of God  won’t kena black magic 
Darkness cannot overcome light

[pinkpanther]

A true prophet of God  won’t kena black magic 
Darkness cannot overcome light

Satan tempted Jesus for 40 days and was defeated!

[cheekopekman]

I still don't understand why he had to speak through a snake. Another account of demons entering an animal's body is about the pigs which drowned. 

I understand that angels don't have bodies but I don't understand why they need a body to communicate with humans. After all Michael and Gabriel didn't have to enter an animal's body... so why did Satan need to use a snake's body leh?

PS. Am not asking you to answer that question.

Adam and Eve saw snake n dare talk to it n believe it’s words 
We see snake already Siam far

Jesus cast out a legion of demons from a man into a bunch of pigs that got drowned lah!  Demons are actually evil angels lah! Satan was actually the archangel Lucifer that was cast down from heaven lah! Demons called out the Lord's name because they feared Him lah! "Jesus, Son of God..."

[Lukongsimi]

Satan tempted Jesus for 40 days and was defeated!

See what hope n Ali gg to reply?

[Oyk]

Adam and Eve saw snake n dare talk to it n believe it’s words 
We see snake already Siam far

Not only snakes, most peepur would be either frightened or on high alert to see a rottweiler. If it were a tiger, it's beyond being frightened. They would freeze.

As I understand it, before Sin came into this world, snakes, tigers, bees, sharks, crocodiles....they all lived in perfect harmony. Before Eve, they were Adam's companions but somehow quite stupid.

Then God created Eve who was Adam's intellectual equal. Before that, Adam wouldn't be scared of snakes. Or tigers as well.

After Sin entered the world, all of creation turned upside down.

[pinkpanther]

Jesus cast out a legion of demons from a man into a bunch of pigs that got drowned lah!  Demons are actually evil angels lah! Satan was actually the archangel Lucifer that was cast down from heaven lah! Demons called out the Lord's name because they feared Him lah! "Jesus, Son of God..."

Is this why Muslim don eat pork? Pork satay is very delicious...char siew rice also very nice!  when a pig sees a Muslim....the pig says "sibey heng ah" when a Muslim sees a pig ..he says "jepak jalan"

[Lukongsimi]

Jesus cast out a legion of demons from a man into a bunch of pigs that got drowned lah!  Demons are actually evil angels lah! Satan was actually the archangel Lucifer that was cast down from heaven lah! Demons called out the Lord's name because they feared Him lah! "Jesus, Son of God..."

U r right

[Lukongsimi]

Not only snakes, most peepur would be either frightened or on high alert to see a rottweiler. If it were a tiger, it's beyond being frightened. They would freeze.

As I understand it, before Sin came into this world, snakes, tigers, bees, sharks, crocodiles....they all lived in perfect harmony. Before Eve, they were Adam's companions but somehow quite stupid.

Then God created Eve who was Adam's intellectual equal. Before that, Adam wouldn't be scared of snakes. Or tigers as well.

After Sin entered the world, all of creation turned upside down.

 Correct lah 
Humans fear most animals