[Ali Imran]

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. Jesus said this in John 14:6-9: I am the way and the truth and the life. No-one comes to the Father [God] except through me

Pengyu, your toner is running out.

[Lukongsimi]

Saying one thing and doing another is a different thing...what is the penalty for not embracing islam for the people of the books? Pay the jizya or face death...That is compulsion of faith.

No compulsion of faith is when you take nothing not even their lives when they refuse to accept Islam..

Whether the 4 Imams are told to kill non believers..you have to go find out and read..I can only lead you thus far

Above Talks about money that can save your soul ?
It’s Jesus who can saves 😊

[pinkpanther]

When the Muslims led by the Prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم were at war, the end game was their surrender (jizya) or fight till the enemies were killed. No forcing them to convert is included.

If they don convert and can't pay the jizya ...what is the penalty?

[Ali Imran]

 just because you can't find, that does not mean that I'm lying...Islam makes a claim about the Injil but we don have it or rather we can't find it...does that mean that Islam is lying?

So, I can claim that your religion commands the killing of all non-Christians without substantiating it, and when you challenge me, I tell you to go find it yourself.

Can like that?

[Ali Imran]

If they don convert and can't pay the jizya ...what is the penalty?

When they can't afford to pay the jizya, they don't have to pay. Women, children, old men, don't have to pay jizya. No penalty.

[pinkpanther]

Above Talks about money that can save your soul ?
It’s Jesus who can saves 😊

Jesus does not say that you need to pay him to join Him

[pinkpanther]

When they can't afford to pay the jizya, they don't have to pay. Women, children, old men, don't have to pay jizya. No penalty.

How about fit abled men? you conveniently exclude thêm.

[Lukongsimi]

yes..if they stop raping, repent and ask for forgiveness ..Jesus forgives the repentant thief and promises him a place in Paradise.

Truly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”



There is power in words, and especially so in the words of Christ. While hanging on the cross, Jesus speaks these words to the penitent thief, as recorded in the Gospel of Luke. The Church’s tradition holds the “good” thief to be St. Dismas. This is one of the most powerful moments in all of the Gospels, and is, at its core, a shocking and even scandalous display of Christ’s love; shocking because it is not something you’d expect to be told to a criminal who has been condemned to death, and scandalous because in a way, it appears to contradict Jesus’ own teachings.



You see, St. Dismas, by all assumptions, was not always a man of faith, and he was certainly not someone who had been striving to live a sinless life. The situation he finds himself in on the day of Christ’s death proves this: he was a criminal, and for his crimes, he had been sentenced to death by Pontius Pilate alongside Jesus and another thief. As the Gospels say, “One of the criminals who was hanged railed at him, saying, ‘Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!’ (Lk 32:39). However, Dismas rebuked the other thief, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong” (Lk 23:40-41).



Then, in perhaps the most vulnerable moment of his life, Dismas utters words that not only reveal his heart, but transform it entirely: “Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingly power” (Lk 23:43). Jesus responds, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise” (Lk 23:43). It’s interesting that Dismas, having come to believe that Jesus was the Messiah, expressed this through his words and not just in his heart. Would Jesus have saved him had he not said anything? We can’t know for sure, but it can be assumed that Jesus knew Dismas would be on the cross next to him at the time of his death.



Of course, Dismas also wasn’t baptized, so how could be be saved without undergoing this most fundamental tenet of the Christian faith? In this way, Jesus breaks his own rule, so to speak, but he is Jesus. How often have Christians throughout the ages argued about the means by which a person can be saved? Jesus is very clear about salvation, and of course, he gave authority to the Church to be the keeper of the means to achieve it, but perhaps that’s why Dismas is so important, and why God deemed it necessary for him to be mentioned in the Gospels. With a truly penitent heart and a sincere belief in Jesus Christ as the savior of the world, paradise can be anybody’s; heaven itself is a paradise of belief, as it were.

[pinkpanther]

So, I can claim that your religion commands the killing of all non-Christians without substantiating it, and when you challenge me, I tell you to go find it yourself.

Can like that?

I can refute your claims because Hope believes in the God of Moses is the God he is worshipping..I believe Hope can give you the answers.. or maybe you can answer it

[Ali Imran]

How about fit abled men? you conveniently exclude thêm.

If they cannot pay, they don't have to pay. No penalty. I already told you that and I added more info about those exempted from paying.

[Ali Imran]

I can refute your claims because Hope believes in the God of Moses is the God he is worshipping..I believe Hope can give you the answers.. or maybe you can answer it

Unbelievable.

And SimTan said you're my match. I wish SimTan is reading this.

[pinkpanther]

Truly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”



There is power in words, and especially so in the words of Christ. While hanging on the cross, Jesus speaks these words to the penitent thief, as recorded in the Gospel of Luke. The Church’s tradition holds the “good” thief to be St. Dismas. This is one of the most powerful moments in all of the Gospels, and is, at its core, a shocking and even scandalous display of Christ’s love; shocking because it is not something you’d expect to be told to a criminal who has been condemned to death, and scandalous because in a way, it appears to contradict Jesus’ own teachings.



You see, St. Dismas, by all assumptions, was not always a man of faith, and he was certainly not someone who had been striving to live a sinless life. The situation he finds himself in on the day of Christ’s death proves this: he was a criminal, and for his crimes, he had been sentenced to death by Pontius Pilate alongside Jesus and another thief. As the Gospels say, “One of the criminals who was hanged railed at him, saying, ‘Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!’ (Lk 32:39). However, Dismas rebuked the other thief, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong” (Lk 23:40-41).



Then, in perhaps the most vulnerable moment of his life, Dismas utters words that not only reveal his heart, but transform it entirely: “Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingly power” (Lk 23:43). Jesus responds, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise” (Lk 23:43). It’s interesting that Dismas, having come to believe that Jesus was the Messiah, expressed this through his words and not just in his heart. Would Jesus have saved him had he not said anything? We can’t know for sure, but it can be assumed that Jesus knew Dismas would be on the cross next to him at the time of his death.



Of course, Dismas also wasn’t baptized, so how could be be saved without undergoing this most fundamental tenet of the Christian faith? In this way, Jesus breaks his own rule, so to speak, but he is Jesus. How often have Christians throughout the ages argued about the means by which a person can be saved? Jesus is very clear about salvation, and of course, he gave authority to the Church to be the keeper of the means to achieve it, but perhaps that’s why Dismas is so important, and why God deemed it necessary for him to be mentioned in the Gospels. With a truly penitent heart and a sincere belief in Jesus Christ as the savior of the world, paradise can be anybody’s; heaven itself is a paradise of belief, as it were.

Yes lah...we cannot be prejudice towards ckpm because he converted some moslems to Christians..let us be fair to him

[pinkpanther]

Unbelievable.

And SimTan said you're my match. I wish SimTan is reading this.

But I wasn't lying...the God that you worship is the same God as Moses...don you have an answer for your question? Or you believe it is 2 different Gods?

[pinkpanther]

Unbelievable.

And SimTan said you're my match. I wish SimTan is reading this.

I'm glad that we have squash the beef...let us keep it this way..

[Ali Imran]

But I wasn't lying...the God that you worship is the same God as Moses...don you have an answer for your question? Or you believe it is 2 different Gods?

You're lying when you said our esteemed Imams taught us that we should kill non-Muslims everywhere.

Or you're mistaken.

Which?

[pinkpanther]

If they cannot pay, they don't have to pay. No penalty. I already told you that and I added more info about those exempted from paying.

So all no need to pay lah ...why? Because they are moslems? So who pays the jizya?

[pinkpanther]

You're lying when you said our esteemed Imams taught us that we should kill non-Muslims everywhere.

Or you're mistaken.

Which?

Look, all I ask from you is some effort on your part..
Remember a few days back, we have orders from you to go do the searching on google ..can you repay some kindness in return?

[Ali Imran]

Look, all I ask from you is some effort on your part..
Remember a few days back, we have orders from you to go do the searching on google ..can you repay some kindness in return?

I have googled and I could not find anything that says our 4 esteemed Imams taught us to kill non-Muslims everywhere.

So, please substantiate your claim or admit you're lying or mistaken.

[Ali Imran]

So all no need to pay lah ...why? Because they are moslems? So who pays the jizya?

Able-bodied men who can afford to pay must pay.

[Lukongsimi]

No wonder last time my pay slip showed a bit went into Islamic thing that I don’t know what is all about

[Ali Imran]

No wonder last time my pay slip showed a bit went into Islamic thing that I don’t know what is all about

I'm sure you would go to your HR and find out.

So, tell us what they said?

[pinkpanther]

I have googled and I could not find anything that says our 4 esteemed Imams taught us to kill non-Muslims everywhere.

So, please substantiate your claim or admit you're lying or mistaken.

Just admit you are incompetent 

I didn't say that the 4 Imams taught to kill non moslems ..only 2 of them said that and there is  different opinions among them .pls read carefully...

Pls admit you are lying or mistaken

[pinkpanther]

Able-bodied men who can afford to pay must pay.

What if he can't pay? What happens to him and his family?

[Lukongsimi]

It stated for donations 
Never ask never complain 
Every month deducted 
Tot since some Muslim needs donations as what I encountered in public

[pinkpanther]

This was the original message..you said 4 so I unknowingly also follow you assume it was 4 of them...so you clearly have mis read ...OK I forgive you

there are disagreements between the 4 Sunni Imams. Imam Shafi'i and Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal (and present-day Salafists) all rule that except for Jews/Christians/Magians, all other non-Muslims (like Atheists, Buddhists, Hindus etc.) should be killed all over the world. They don't have any right to stay alive even after paying Jizya

Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Malik said that the killing of all other non-Muslims was limited only to the Arab polytheists.

[pinkpanther]

No wonder last time my pay slip showed a bit went into Islamic thing that I don’t know what is all about

Got cancel or not?  if small sum just take it as doing charity lor

[pinkpanther]

It stated for donations 
Never ask never complain 
Every month deducted 
Tot since some Muslim needs donations as what I encountered in public

You every month donate but our moslem bro still say your hati busok    I think our moslem bro needs to retract his harmful statement

[Ali Imran]

What if he can't pay? What happens to him and his family?

Aiyoh.. how many times must answer this.

If an able-bodied man can't afford to pay, then no need to pay.

Let me tell you of an interesting story. When the Muslims in Spain were about to be defeated by the Christians, the Jews who were under the Muslim protection got their jizya refunded to them because the Muslims were no longer able to protect them.

[Ali Imran]

Just admit you are incompetent 

I didn't say that the 4 Imams taught to kill non moslems ..only 2 of them said that and there is  different opinions among them .pls read carefully...

Pls admit you are lying or mistaken

Ok. I'm mistaken to say all 4.

So, please show me where any of our 4 esteemed Imams taught us that we should kill non-Muslims everywhere. 

Otherwise, please admit you're lying or mistaken.

[pinkpanther]

Aiyoh.. how many times must answer this.

If an able-bodied man can't afford to pay, then no need to pay.

Let me tell you of an interesting story. When the Muslims in Spain were about to be defeated by the Christians, the Jews who were under the Muslim protection got their jizya refunded to them because the Muslims were no longer able to protect them.

The Jews and moslems were not always enemies... both sides also support each other during times of need.. the jews protect the mosques, the moslems repair the Jewish graves..