[cheekopekman]

Read the whole chapter first then come and conclude...and you want to give me 3 options already..

John 17:3 needs to be read in context to fully appreciate what Jesus was saying in that prayer. The contrast is not between the Father and the Son but between the Father and the world’s false gods and idols.

The long prayer of Jesus in John 17 needs a long sermon to finish preaching lah!  Still may not understand after that lah!

[pinkpanther]

The long prayer of Jesus in John 17 needs a long sermon to finish preaching lah!  Still may not understand after that lah!

Ya lah...but our non Christian friend can understand fully wor!

[Oyk]

Read the whole chapter first then come and conclude...and you want to give me 3 options already..

John 17:3 needs to be read in context to fully appreciate what Jesus was saying in that prayer. The contrast is not between the Father and the Son but between the Father and the world’s false gods and idols.

He plucks verses here and there without regard to the context.

Jesus spoke in parables and the gospel writers wrote what He said. The gospel writers did not interprete but merely recorded Jesus' ministry.  The lawyers of those days couldn't understand a thing. The Jews were shocked at His arrogance/indolence by even talking as if He were God. In Singapore today, we would say they "took umbrage".

It was not until the Holy Spirit guided and taught the apostle Paul that the secrets of those teachings were unlocked. After that, we know that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works because if we attempt to follow God's Law we are only going to be heading south of heaven.

If we simply read the Bible, and I mean it literally, then we are not going to understand anything better than the peepur Jesus taught or who heard Him speaking. We too need the Holy Spirit to open our spiritual minds. And we need to study the Bible to do a contextual reading and to understand the NT with reference to the OT.

Taking verses from the OT and slamming the LAW at our face telling us to obey every letter of it is to make a mockery of Christ's Death. If we all reject it and wish to follow the Law and be judged by it, then Christ died for nothing..Satan wants that.

Taking verses from the NT out of context and saying that they contradict the OT is to say that Paul was a false prophet who was doing a RK on his audience.

[Oyk]

John 17:20-21 – “I am praying not only for these disciples but also for all who will ever believe in Me through their message. I pray that they will all be one, just as You and I are One – as You are in Me, Father, and I am in You. And may they be in Us so that the world will believe You sent Me.”31 Jul 2017

[pinkpanther]

He plucks verses here and there without regard to the context.

Jesus spoke in parables and the gospel writers wrote what He said. The gospel writers did not interprete but merely recorded Jesus' ministry.  The lawyers of those days couldn't understand a thing. The Jews were shocked at His arrogance/indolence by even talking as if He were God. In Singapore today, we would say they "took umbrage".

It was not until the Holy Spirit guided and taught the apostle Paul that the secrets of those teachings were unlocked. After that, we know that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works because if we attempt to follow God's Law we are only going to be heading south of heaven.

If we simply read the Bible, and I mean it literally, then we are not going to understand anything better than the peepur Jesus taught or who heard Him speaking. We too need the Holy Spirit to open our spiritual minds. And we need to study the Bible to do a contextual reading and to understand the NT with reference to the OT.

Taking verses from the OT and slamming the LAW at our face telling us to obey every letter of it is to make a mockery of Christ's Death. If we all reject it and wish to follow the Law and be judged by it, then Christ died for nothing..Satan wants that.

Taking verses from the NT out of context and saying that they contradict the OT is to say that Paul was a false prophet who was doing a RK on his audience.

He gave me 3 options wor! 
I thought he is going to give me something serious to ponder...
In the end...he plucked this verse from some random debates and he decided to throw it here ....Good try!

In this day and age, no one can follow God's law 100%...if he can..he must be a hypocrite or a bloody good liar...so please don act righteous and think because you have more knowledge of the bible or quran...you can have the neccessary rights to condemn someone'sfaith!

[Oyk]

John 17:20-21 – “I am praying not only for these disciples but also for all who will ever believe in Me through their message. I pray that they will all be one, just as You and I are One – as You are in Me, Father, and I am in You. And may they be in Us so that the world will believe You sent Me.”31 Jul 2017

Jesus was/is both God and Man.

As Man, he prayed to God. As Man, he died for our Sin. As Man, the Jews considered that His saying that "You and I are One, You are in Me and I am in You" to be outrageous.

[Oyk]

He gave me 3 options wor! 
I thought he is going to give me something serious to ponder...
In the end...he plucked this verse from some random debates and he decided to throw it here ....Good try!

In this day and age, no one can follow God's law 100%...if he can..he must be a hypocrite or a bloody good liar...so please don act righteous and think because you have more knowledge of the bible or quran...you can have the neccessary rights to condemn someone'sfaith!

The 1st Law predated the Mosaic Law, and was the 1st Commandment. You may eat any fruit except for this.

Adam could not even obey that. Sin entered the world right into the DNA of Man. We are all sons of Man born with that DNA. Hence the bible says:

For all....ALL ....have sinned and (ALL) fall short of the glory of God.

This had been so since Adam.

The sons of Man are all born with Sin in their DNA. We are born as sinners only to sin as naturally as a papaya tree bears papaya as the natural order of things..

The son of Mary does not have the seed of a man, of Adam, and hence is worthy for the remission of Sin. 

For through one man, Adam, Sin entered the world, through Christ, the penalty for Sin had been paid. 

I had written Sin in the singular without a small s behind.

[Ali Imran]

He gave me 3 options wor! 
I thought he is going to give me something serious to ponder...
In the end...he plucked this verse from some random debates and he decided to throw it here ....Good try!

In this day and age, no one can follow God's law 100%...if he can..he must be a hypocrite or a bloody good liar...so please don act righteous and think because you have more knowledge of the bible or quran...you can have the neccessary rights to condemn someone'sfaith!

The 3 options are the only ones available to you if you want to make this contradiction go away.

I'm not condemning your faith. There is nothing to condemn about your faith. I am just putting your faith side by side with that verse.

[Ali Imran]

Jesus was/is both God and Man.

Why didn't the disciples like St Peter ever preach to people that Jesus is God?

[Oyk]

Flee. All flee. The Bible says flee.

[Oyk]

John 20:28 Meaning and Commentary

John 20:28 In-Context
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
30 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.

[Ali Imran]

John 20:28 Meaning and Commentary

John 20:28 In-Context
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
30 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.

Ok. Did St Thomas ever preach to people that Jesus is God?

[pinkpanther]

Ok. Did St Thomas ever preach to people that Jesus is God?

Yes..he did. If you see God, will you keep quiet?

[Oyk]

Yes..he did. If you see God, will you keep quiet?

The writing of the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The words of Thomas were recorded in John's Gospel.

With a smirk, your friend called him St Thomas. But we know how Ali dances around with biblical verses. His question was not asked like a wide eyed kiddo in a Sunday school class might, but to whisper that John 20: 28 was a satanic verse.

You need to decide for yourself. Was that verse God's revelation of Who Jesus was, or was it a satanic verse that lied about His identity... and we are to believe the Islamic version that He was merely a prophet who didn't even die on the Cross?

[Ali Imran]

Yes..he did. If you see God, will you keep quiet?

Show me where.

[pinkpanther]

Show me where.

You think I am the performing seal in the zoo ah...you find lah

[Ali Imran]

You think I am the performing seal in the zoo ah...you find lah

There are no records of any of the disciples ever preaching to people Jesus is God.

But we do have records in Acts 2:22 of the disciples preaching to people and they preached that Jesus is a man.

[pinkpanther]

There are no records of any of the disciples ever preaching to people Jesus is God.

But we do have records in Acts 2:22 of the disciples preaching to people and they preached that Jesus is a man.

Who are the " we " highlighted that you are referring to?  You Christians?
No records does not mean he tdid not preach...
He went all the way to India...yes India.. to spread Christianity ok
And you discredited him because there was no records in the bible

Check with the Indian scholars if you don't believe

[Ali Imran]

Who are the " we " highlighted that you are referring to?  You Christians?
No records does not mean he tdid not preach...
He went all the way to India...yes India.. to  spread Christianity ok
And you discredited him because there was no records in the bible

Check with the Indian scholars if you don't believe

We have records of the disciples preaching to people that Jesus is a man.

We as in people.

[pinkpanther]

We have records of the disciples preaching to people that Jesus is a man.

We as in people.

Show me... where

[Lukongsimi]

”My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: but if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?“
‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭2‬, ‭5‬-‭22‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/1/jas.2.1-22.KJV

[Ali Imran]

Show me... where

Acts 2:22

[Lukongsimi]

Jesus rose up after death 
He heals the sick,cast out demons,raise the dead 
Change water to wine,5 loaves 2 fishes to feed 5 thousand people 
Forgive sins
He is the Alpha and the Omega
I am who I am
Walked on water 
Commanded the storm to calm down 
So many miracles..
He was not buried but was rose up to heaven 
He is God!

[pinkpanther]

Acts 2:22

Jesus is fully God, fully man.

God that came from heaven to become man (flesh)...

That was the interpretation

[Ali Imran]

Jesus is fully God, fully man.

God that came from heaven to become man (flesh)...

That was the interpretation

The topic today is; Did the disciples ever preach Jesus is God?

1. We have records of the disciples preaching Jesus was a man. Acts 2:22

2. I don't know if there are records of the disciples preaching Jesus is God. I doubt there are any. But we know this from the book of Acts. They were still going to the temple to pray, like how the Muslims would go to the mosques. They were also preaching in the temple, to tell people Jesus is the Messiah. If they were preaching Jesus is God, they would not be allowed in the temple. 

That's my two points on the topic.

[Lukongsimi]

Your religion forbids u to believe Jesus is God
It’s our business meh?
Terrorist stabbed bishop u know from which religion
Very nasty and wicked

[pinkpanther]

The topic today is; Did the disciples ever preach Jesus is God?

1. We have records of the disciples preaching Jesus was a man. Acts 2:22

2. I don't know if there are records of the disciples preaching Jesus is God. I doubt there are any. But we know this from the book of Acts. They were still going to the temple to pray, like how the Muslims would go to the mosques. They were also preaching in the temple, to tell people Jesus is the Messiah. If they were preaching Jesus is God, they would not be allowed in the temple. 

That's my two points on the topic.

Are you ready for the refutation?

[Ali Imran]

Your religion forbids u to believe Jesus is God
It’s our business meh?

Yes pengyu, it is your business. God gives you the right to believe whatever you want. I cannot take that away from you. 

I want to discuss your faith. Can I do that?

[Ali Imran]

Are you ready for the refutation?

Ready.

[Lukongsimi]