[pinkpanther]

He has eyes (Quran 20.39), face (Quran 55.27), hands (Quran 39.67), and legs (Quran 68.42 so he is not formless...so he is bound by space and time! If the universe has no space..he will cease to exist!

[pinkpanther]

No need to argue. No end. This is just a statement,  whatever name you may wish to call it.

This is not proof of God as first cause. 

Admit it, there is no proof.  We will never know how it all began. We can have theories but not concrete proof.

But then, I knew you wouldn't admit it openly. At least think about it....

Which is easier to believe, that life was created by God or by chance?

Since the dawn of humanity, people have been seeking communion with God through prayer... why?

[Ali Imran]

No need to argue. No end. This is just a statement,  whatever name you may wish to call it.

This is not proof of God as first cause. 

Admit it, there is no proof.  We will never know how it all began. We can have theories but not concrete proof.

But then, I knew you wouldn't admit it openly. At least think about it....

Can a belief without proof be true?

[RichDad]

Which is easier to believe, that life was created by God or by chance?

Since the dawn of humanity, people have been seeking communion with God through prayer... why?

Is easier equal to proof? Or better? It is easier to be lazy but is it necessarily better for you?

As explained above, people seek a reason for their existence and why we are here and other questions, understandably so. We are powerless to a big extent and seek a higher power to give us meaning in life, hope for we die. People just can't let go of their attachment to life.

Religion makes you believe that the higher power is your God. Whether you believe or not, it is your prerogative. But no need should exert their own beliefs on others, like this Ali guy is trying to do.

To each his own is best.

[pinkpanther]

Quran was compiled during first caliph Abu bucker.During Third caliph Uthman established a standard version.

The Quran was recorded on various materials such as leaves, stones, animal skins, and bones before it was compiled, and we lack information regarding the identities of the original authors. .....Isn't it possible that there could be elements of fabrication? It seems there may be more authors associated with the Quran than with the Bible.

[RichDad]

Can a belief without proof be true?

Not to me. Not sure about you. Because belief is subjective by definition.

If I believe A is true, but you believe A- is true but they can't both be true, obviously. Then how?

Then we get wars, conflicts. Is that you want?

[pinkpanther]

Is easier equal to proof? Or better? It is easier to be lazy but is it necessarily better for you?

As explained above, people seek a reason for their existence and why we are here and other questions, understandably so.  We are powerless to a big extent and seek a higher power to give us meaning in life, hope for we die. People just can't let go of their attachment to life.

Religion makes you believe that the higher power is your God.  Whether you believe or not, it is your prerogative. But no need should exert their own beliefs on others, like this Ali guy is trying to do.

To each his own is best.

I agreed to the 2nd last paragraph 

[Ali Imran]

Not to me. Not sure about you. Because belief is subjective by definition.

If I believe A is true, but you believe A- is true but they can't both be true, obviously. Then how?

Then we get wars, conflicts. Is that you want?

I am sure you believe you have a great-great-grandfather without proof. So there, a belief without proof can be true.

I notice your last para. Is that why you don't believe there is a God?

[Ali Imran]

Religion makes you believe that the higher power is your God.  Whether you believe or not, it is your prerogative. But no need should exert their own beliefs on others, like this Ali guy is trying to do.

I like to argue, lock horns intellectually. That is why I like to be in forums. 

I believe you like to be in forums too. What do you do here?

[RichDad]

I like to argue, lock horns intellectually. That is why I like to be in forums. 

I believe you like to be in forums too. What do you do here?

Oh, I am seldom here. Unlike you, I don't like to argue in a forum cos no matter what I say, the other party will only want to hear what they want to hear especially on religion and politics.

You like wars, quarrels, arguments? Forcing your views on others? Then ok, lots of people will argue with you here as you must have already known. You must be enjoying yourself, lol.

I come here occasionally for news, entertainment, jokes but not arguments. Peace.

[Ali Imran]

Oh, I am seldom here. Unlike you, I don't like to argue in a forum cos no matter what I say, the other party will only want to hear what they want to hear especially on religion and politics.

You like wars, quarrels, arguments?  Forcing your views on others? Then ok, lots of people will argue with you here as you must have already known. You must be enjoying yourself, lol.

I come here occasionally for news, entertainment,  jokes but not arguments.  Peace.

Peace.

[pinkpanther]

Allah  revealed his divine speech through Angel Gabriel over a period of 23 years.The companion of Prophet Muhammad memorized and Written down.
It was compiled during first caliph and standardised during third Caliph.

Quran has 6236 verses ,114 chapters.


Quran 2:2”This is the Book! There is no doubt about it-a guide for those mindful ˹of Allah˺,”

Quran 5:48”We have revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ this Book with the truth, as a confirmation of previous Scriptures and a supreme authority on them. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their desires over the truth that has come to you. To each of you We have ordained a code of law and a way of life. If Allah had willed, He would have made you one community, but His Will is to test you with what He has given ˹each of˺ you. So compete with one another in doing good. To Allah you will all return, then He will inform you ˹of the truth˺ regarding your differences.

Do you believe that all prophets following Moses are subject to God's laws? God nearly punished Moses for not circumcising his children, indicating that the law applies equally to everyone. If that's the case, why does God allow Muhammad to receive 30% of the spoils from wars? 

Why did he continue taking women, men, children as slaves? Why did he not set better benchmarks?Shouldn't God's fairness mean that the same standards apply to all?

Let me make it easier for you...how many of the 10 Commandments did your prophet break? Make a guess!

[pinkpanther]

We believe it is divine speech.

This is divine speech from your prophet to an orphan girl 

https://sunnah.com/muslim:2603

[Ernesto]

Oh, I am seldom here. Unlike you, I don't like to argue in a forum cos no matter what I say, the other party will only want to hear what they want to hear especially on religion and politics.

You like wars, quarrels, arguments?  Forcing your views on others? Then ok, lots of people will argue with you here as you must have already known. You must be enjoying yourself, lol.

I come here occasionally for news, entertainment,  jokes but not arguments.  Peace.

Peace be with you.😅

[S I M T A N]

Hello SimTan.

Christian theologians like Dr. William Craig will use logic when arguing with atheists on the existence of God. His famous book on the Kalam argument uses logic.

In logical thinking, we are governed by the law of non-contradiction. As I've shown you recently, the Bible gives us contradicting teachings, like Sola Fide where Paul said yes and James said no. They both cannot be right but Christians must accept both as truth. 

Can you see the problem?

There's only so much a proselytizer can do when communicating the truth to the likes of avowed atheists and agnostics. Using logic, argumentation or well-reasoned rhetoric won't come in helpful, particularly when it comes to faith or spiritual matters. There's something we can learn from the following passage about how God opens people's hearts to receive His Word: "And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul (Acts 16:14).

Notice that phrase "...a certain woman...whose heart the Lord opened ..." How does God open people's hearts? God opens people's hearts with His Word. When the Word is preached, it'll open people's hearts if they'll listen to it and be receptive to it. But if they reject the truth of the Word, it won't have free course in their hearts. You see, we each have a will of our own. We can choose to close the door of our heart or to open it. In one sense the mind is the door to the heart.

This is exactly what the Bible says. When your mind isn't open to the truth of God's Word, your heart is hindered from receiving. "But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is real, the veil is upon their heart" (2Cor 3:14,15).

The Bible refers to the relationship between the mind and the heart. When a person's mind is closed, it's hard for him to believe the truth of God's Word in his heart. On the other hand, it was the Word that opened the door of Lydia's heart and she attended unto Paul's words and accepted God's Word. The word "attended" means to listen, to hear, and to heed. Then by an act of her will, she accepted the Lord Jesus Christ into her heart.

Jesus Himself declared that He stands at the door of a person's heart, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me" (Rev 3:20). It isn't just God's Word working alone that opens a person's heart. Man works in cooperation with God by yielding to God's Word.

Why was Lydia's heart open and others' hearts were not open or receptive? Someone once said, "The same sun that melts wax will harden clay." In other words, the same gospel that will open some people's hearts will shut the hearts of others because they refuse to accept the truth they're hearing. It's not God's fault that some people persist in keeping their minds and hearts closed to the truth they hear anymore than it is the sun's fault for melting wax or hardening clay.

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Acts 16:16).

[S I M T A N]

"All Scripture is God-breathed..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NIV) Apostle Paul told Timothy that lah!  The Spirit of God is also the breath of God lah!

Exactly, brother. "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God." The Holy Spirit authored all of Scripture, and He never contradicts Himself. All of the New Testament is inspired ( a word meaning "God breathed") and is just as authoritative as the Old Testament Scriptures (a word meaning "writings").

[Jericho75]

God was created by human beings!  

Your beloved FLG 大法 is Created by CCP Pooh Xi 

[Jericho75]

Christians also worship idols!  

Wumao Puppies also Worship Dog Emperor Pooh Xi 

[Geneco]

If fear of god ish the start of wisdom, then...

Need some advice ish fear of mRNA jabs the start of excess deaths and turbo cancer from covid doomsday black tongue white lungs variant ?

[Geneco]

Need some advice will atheist be left SPEECHLESS if pro-vaxxers scared to take the latest mRNA jabs as recommended by Fauci, the GOD of science lololololol....

[Ali Imran]

There's only so much a proselytizer can do when communicating the truth to the likes of avowed atheists and agnostics. Using logic, argumentation or well-reasoned rhetoric won't come in helpful, particularly when it comes to faith or spiritual matters. There's something we can learn from the following passage about how God opens people's hearts to receive His Word: "And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul (Acts 16:14).

Notice that phrase "...a certain woman...whose heart the Lord opened ..." How does God open people's hearts? God opens people's hearts with His Word. When the Word is preached, it'll open people's hearts if they'll listen to it and be receptive to it. But if they reject the truth of the Word, it won't have free course in their hearts. You see, we each have a will of our own. We can choose to close the door of our heart or to open it. In one sense the mind is the door to the heart.

This is exactly what the Bible says. When your mind isn't open to the truth of God's Word, your heart is hindered from receiving. "But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is real, the veil is upon their heart" (2Cor 3:14,15).

The Bible refers to the relationship between the mind and the heart. When a person's mind is closed, it's hard for him to believe the truth of God's Word in his heart. On the other hand, it was the Word that opened the door of Lydia's heart and she attended unto Paul's words and accepted God's Word. The word "attended" means to listen, to hear, and to heed. Then by an act of her will, she accepted the Lord Jesus Christ into her heart.

Jesus Himself declared that He stands at the door of a person's heart, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me" (Rev 3:20). It isn't just God's Word working alone that opens a person's heart. Man works in cooperation with God by yielding to God's Word.

Why was Lydia's heart open and others' hearts were not open or receptive? Someone once said, "The same sun that melts wax will harden clay." In other words, the same gospel that will open some people's hearts will shut the hearts of others because they refuse to accept the truth they're hearing. It's not God's fault that some people persist in keeping their minds and hearts closed to the truth they hear anymore than it is the sun's fault for melting wax or hardening clay.

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Acts 16:16).

You use logic for everything, like when crossing the road. But when it comes to faith, you must turn off logic. That is what you are saying.

Well, that works for some people but not for others, people like me. If I find it illogical, my mind would not be able to accept it. That is how God made me. Yet, according to your belief, I will be thrown in hell because God made me such that I cannot accept something illogical as valid theology. 

Your heart accepts the Bible as true but your mind cannot because you can see what I've shown you. You're not stupid. 

The heart and the mind must be in cohesion when worshiping God.

[S I M T A N]

If fear of god ish the start of wisdom, then...

Need some advice ish fear of mRNA jabs the start of excess deaths and turbo cancer from covid doomsday black tongue white lungs variant ?

All vaccinated people will die within 2 years.     Wed May 19, 2021

Nobel Prize Winner Luc Montagnier has confirmed that there's no chance of survival for people who have received any form of the vaccine. In the shocking interview, the world's top virologist stated blankly: 'there's no hope, and no possible treatment for those who have been vaccinated already. We must be prepared to incinerate the bodies." The scientific genius backed claims of other preeminent virologists after studying the constituents of the vaccine. "They will all die from antibody dependent enhancement. Nothing more can be said."

"It's an enormous mistake, isn't it? A scientific error as well as a medical error. It is an unacceptable mistake." Montagnier said in an interview translated and published by the RAIR Foundation USA yesterday. "The history books will show that, because it's the vaccination that's creating the variants." Many epidemiologists know it and are "silent" about the problem known as "antibody-dependent enhancement," Montagnier said.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/nobel-...e-variants
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luc_Montagnier
www.lifesitenews.com


This is the mother of all anti-vax pronouncements, and it puts all the other anti-vax advice in the shade. The doomsday prediction of all vaccinated people dropping like flies 2 years after the introduction of Covid vaccination never materialized though purportedly healthy individuals were inexplicably dying like flies.

Another conspiracy theory that sent chills down the spine of many was that the SARS COV2 pandemic coronavirus, man-made in a laboratory, was all
part of an elaborate plot by the rich and powerful to bring about a "massive-scale depopulation" of the world. If that's true, our blood is on their hands! Mercifully, most of us along with our loved ones are alive and kicking. I'm still as fit as a flea even after taking 4 doses of vaccine.

Yes, the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, which is a combination of balance, common sense, and good judgment. It means to have a holy, reverential awe and respect for Him. Also there are healthy fears that alert us to danger - and these are good because they protect us. Being
believers doesn't mean that nothing bad will ever happen to them or that they'll never experience pain and suffering. They will, because pain and suffering are a part of life in this fallen world. But the Bible assures reborn believers that their prayers play a vital part in keeping trouble from them. Disasters can occur anywhere. The point is to pray and trust God for protection. Psalm 23:4 says, " Yes, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me."

[S I M T A N]

You use logic for everything, like when crossing the road. But when it comes to faith, you must turn off logic. That is what you are saying.

Well, that works for some people but not for others, people like me. If I find it illogical, my mind would not be able to accept it. That is how God made me. Yet, according to your belief, I will be thrown in hell because God made me such that I cannot accept something illogical as valid theology. 

Your heart accepts the Bible as true but your mind cannot because you can see what I've shown you. You're not stupid. 

The heart and the mind must be in cohesion when worshiping God.

One of the first things we learn from the Bible is that God is a Spirit (John 4:24). God, who is a Spirit, is omnipresent: He is present everywhere simultaneously, and can commune with us on a one-to-one basis. Yes, God is all of that and he is also as personal with every one of His children. We get acquainted with God in the intimacy of a Father-child relationship, not just in the awesome fact of His greatness.

Now I (and you) am a spirit; I have a soul, and I live in a body (1 Thess 5:23). I become acquainted with God through my spirit, not with my mind or body. I can't understand God with my intellect. That's what's wrong with the world today; people have tried to understand God and the things of God with their minds. That's why you see empty words with no power. People are trying to understand God with the intellect, and they talk about God and explain things from a theological standpoint.

You can study every theological book and learn a little from these books about God. And you may know something about God, but you'll never know God personally. You'll never really get acquainted with God until your spirit comes into contact with God's Spirit. Then only will you get acquainted with God in childlike faith and simplicity. You don't become acquainted with God by what you hear, what you see, what you read, or by your emotions. You get to know God by your spirit coming into contact with God's Spirit. That's where the real knowledge Of God takes place - in your spirit or heart, not just in your mind or intellect.

[cheekopekman]

Why? Proof? If no proof, then it is fake.

You are the proof lah!  If God didn't create you how can you be writing now leh?  "I am fearfully and wonderfully made."

[Lukongsimi]

[Ali Imran]

One of the first things we learn from the Bible is that God is a Spirit (John 4:24). God, who is a Spirit, is omnipresent: He is present everywhere simultaneously, and can commune with us on a one-to-one basis. Yes, God is all of that and he is also as personal with every one of His children. We get acquainted with God in the intimacy of a Father-child relationship, not just in the awesome fact of His greatness.

Now I (and you) am a spirit; I have a soul, and I live in a body (1 Thess 5:23). I become acquainted with God through my spirit, not with my mind or body. I can't understand God with my intellect. That's what's wrong with the world today; people have tried to understand God and the things of God with their minds. That's why you see empty words with no power. People are trying to understand God with the intellect, and they talk about God and explain things from a theological standpoint.

You can study every theological book and learn a little from these books about God. And you may know something about God, but you'll never know God personally. You'll never really get acquainted with God until your spirit comes into contact with God's Spirit. Then only will you get acquainted with God in childlike faith and simplicity. You don't become acquainted with God by what you hear, what you see, what you read, or by your emotions. You get to know God by your spirit coming into contact with God's Spirit. That's where the real knowledge Of God takes place - in your spirit or heart, not just in your mind or intellect.

You have no ground (scriptures) to stand on and you are delving into the spiritual world. There are many evil spirits in that world and you may unknowingly be meeting one. Stay in the real world bro.

We can only know God as much as God wants us to know about him. The way God wants us to know him is through the messengers he sends. Our only connection to the messengers God has sent will be the scriptures. Only a day or two ago, you spoke highly of the Bible, to Cheekopekman. Today, you brought it down a notch, saying it is inadequate to learn about God. I understand why you need to do that because it is inadequate and confusing. We even have a saying of Jesus pbuh recorded in the Bible saying there are many things we need to know but he didn't have the time to tell us all, cementing the notion of the inadequacy of the NT.

You are using conjectures to further your faith. Talking about connecting your spirit with God's spirit to know God personally is based mostly on conjectures. We should not be using conjectures to find our way back to God. The ONLY way is through the messengers.

[Ernesto]

[pinkpanther]

So Jesus is not God right?

https://sunnah.com/muslim:2767a

Hello Kawan....I'm curious about why Allah seems to have such discontent towards Jews and Christians. Why isn't there a focus on Hindus or Buddhists instead?

[S I M T A N]

You have no ground (scriptures) to stand on and you are delving into the spiritual world. There are many evil spirits in that world and you may unknowingly be meeting one. Stay in the real world bro.

We can only know God as much as God wants us to know about him. The way God wants us to know him is through the messengers he sends. Our only connection to the messengers God has sent will be the scriptures. Only a day or two ago, you spoke highly of the Bible, to Cheekopekman. Today, you brought it down a notch, saying it is inadequate to learn about God. I understand why you need to do that because it is inadequate and confusing. We even have a saying of Jesus pbuh recorded in the Bible saying there are many things we need to know but he didn't have the time to tell us all, cementing the notion of the inadequacy of the NT.

You are using conjectures to further your faith. Talking about connecting your spirit with God's spirit to know God personally is based mostly on conjectures. We should not be using conjectures to find our way back to God. The ONLY way is through the messengers.

"True worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him (John 4:23). Our concept of worship is drastically different from Islam or any of the pantheistic worldviews such as Hinduism and Buddhism. Your Qur'an teaches that God isn't triune (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), but the God of the Bible is. To say God has a Son, as the Bible does, is an unforgivable sin known as shirk to Muslims.

As a Muslim you surely do not recognize God's triune identity, and certainly not the Holy Spirit, the First Person of the Godhead. So naturally you'll rubbish any talk of the Comforter, but I'll still expound on it for the uninitiated.

"Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming
of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess 5:23).

This verse contains the formula for the components of the human personality, namely spirit, soul and body. The very first Chapter of Genesis tells us that God chose to make man in His own "image" and "likeness" (verse 26). Man's spirit, soul, and body correspond to the three components of the triune Godhead.

Man's internal structure can be traced to God's creation of man. The human spirit proceeds from the breath of God. God breathed into Adam to produce a spirit within him (Gen 1:7). In both Hebrew and Greek, the words spirit and breath have the same meaning. Adam's body was clay infused with divine life. Although Adam didn't die physically yet, he died spiritually the instance he disobeyed God by eating the fruit. While salvation cannot preserve our physical bodies, it does make them temples for the Holy Spirit to inhabit.

Comprising will, intellect and emotions, the soul's function is to make decisions. The soul is the old self with all its tendencies to sin. Regeneration, however, enables the soul to make the right decisions. David wrote in Psalm 103:1, "Bless the Lord, O my soul." His spirit is telling his soul what to do. His spirit senses the need to bless the Lord, but he requires activation by his soul to execute this need. Furthermore, the natural (soulish) man cannot discern spiritual truth. He must do so with the spirit.

Our spirit is capable of communicating with God and worshipping Him. Neither soul nor body can unite with God. Jesus said, " God is spirit,
and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:24).

A true messenger or prophet stands in the counsel of the Lord and turns people from evil ways, but false prophets cause many problems and lead astray people who look to them as those who interpret God's will and ways. God judges prophets, priests and people, but He'll probably start with
the prophets who represent Him and His will.

For Christians, pastors are wonderful people but they can't take the place of Jesus. The chief function of pastors is not to solve our problems but to help us cultivate our relationship with Jesus, the Head, and guide us as we work on our spiritual growth. Some mistakenly make pastors their go-to people, assuming they have all the right answers. Some pastors claim to be necessary channels of communication with Christ. It's true we should have
spiritual mentors; more importantly we must also have a personal relationship with Christ, one that enables us to discern His guidance and know what
pleases and angers Him. It can only come about when our spirit comes into contact with the Holy Spirit.

[Lukongsimi]

People who don’t know the truth will like to argue till the cow comes home.