[pinkpanther]

If you are not familiar with holy sprit, How did you believe in Trinity?

Angels are not messengers. Messengers are humans.Both are two different races.

I have mentioned earlier that role of Gabriel is to communicate with Messengers/ Prophets.

Quran has 6 verses mentioned the name of Gabriel/Holy sprit/Pure spirit/Trustworthy spirit.If we study all these verses, Role of Gabriel is to communicate between Allah and Messengers/Prophet.


which the trustworthy spirit ˹Gabriel˺ brought down” Quran 26:193

Say, [O Muḥammad], "The Pure Spirit [i.e., Gabriel] has brought it down from your Lord in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to the Muslims."Quran 16:102

Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Whoever is an enemy of Gabriel should know that he revealed this ˹Quran˺ to your heart by Allah’s Will, confirming what came before it—a guide and good news for the believers.”Quran 2:97


Indeed, We gave Moses the Book and sent after him successive messengers. And We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the holy spirit.Why is it that every time a messenger comes to you ˹Israelites˺ with something you do not like, you become arrogant, rejecting some and killing others? Quran 2:87

We have chosen some of those messengers above others. Allah spoke directly to some, and raised some high in rank. To Jesus, son of Mary, We gave clear proofs and supported him with the holy spirit.If Allah had willed, succeeding generations would not have fought ˹among themselves˺ after receiving the clear proofs. But they differed—some believed while others disbelieved. Yet if Allah had willed, they would not have fought one another. But Allah does what He wills.”Quran 2:253



And ˹on Judgment Day˺ Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour upon you and your mother: how I supported you with the holy spirit so you spoke to people in ˹your˺ infancy and adulthood. How I taught you writing, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. How you moulded a bird from clay—by My Will—and breathed into it and it became a ˹real˺ bird—by My Will. How you healed the blind and the lepers—by My Will. How you brought the dead to life—by My Will. How I prevented the Children of Israel from harming you when you came to them with clear proofs and the disbelievers among them said, “This is nothing but pure magic.”Quran 5:110

Your interpretation might be wrong..angels are also Allah messengers.

Scholars say there are two reasons why angels are called "messengers". The first one is that they are Allah's messengers sent to people. They deliver revelation to prophets, give inspiration to righteous people and show true dreams to people in general.

See you learn something new everyday..

Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four (pairs): He adds to Creation as He pleases: for Allah has power over all things." (Fatir, 35/1)

[pinkpanther]

Muslim believe/Trust 100% Allah .
My Question is how many percent do you believe in father in theheaven, Son of God and Holy sprit ?

Why are you so certain of his existence when there is no evidence to support it? Are there any testimonies? Allah does not engage directly with His creation....the communication flows through a chain from Him to Gabriel, then to the Prophet, and finally to the people....

This what we call blind faith...Allah does not talk to his people!!

[Gemstar]

Why are you so certain of his existence when there is no evidence to support it? Are there any testimonies? Allah does not engage directly with His creation....the communication flows through a chain from Him to Gabriel, then to the Prophet, and finally to the people.... It's possible that your prayers may go unanswered, meaning you could be praying in vain!

You hv so much knowledge of the Bible. Very impressive.

[pinkpanther]

You hv so much knowledge of the Bible. Very impressive.

It is not impressive to those who tried to deny the truth...
They will deny the eyewitnesses accounts in the Bible and they will deny anyone who give their testimonies and speak the truth about God!

[Ali Imran]

You hv so much knowledge of the Bible. Very impressive.

LOL

No, he doesn't know much about the Bible. Anybody who says the Bible has eyewitness accounts doesn't know much about the Bible.

[pinkpanther]

You see how he will deny all the eye witnesses accounts and believe someone who came 700 years later and take his words for it....you see his own contradictions?

His idol Muhammad even confirmed what the Christians have during his time was true!

[cheekopekman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHaTXv3Nkco&t=407s


Watch this movie lah!

[Lukongsimi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHaTXv3Nkco&t=407s


Watch this movie lah!

Watched years ago

[cheekopekman]

Watched years ago

Watch again lah!  This time turn your Bible to the Gospel of Luke and follow lah!

[pinkpanther]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHaTXv3Nkco&t=407s


Watch this movie lah!

This actor doesn't look good...Robert Powell better 

[pinkpanther]

Is it haram for a Moslem to say Merry Christmas?

 It was narrated from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) in al-Musnad and as-Sunan that he said: “Whoever imitates a people is one of them."

I always knew that particular moslem was one of us

LOL

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/106668/i...tmas-haram

[pinkpanther]

In A Brief Introduction to the New Testament, Bart Ehrman writes that “the most certain element of the tradition about Jesus is that he was crucified on the orders of the Roman prefect of Judea, Pontius Pilate.” In other words, this is one element of the story of Jesus in the Gospels that virtually all scholars agree ...

Ergo, that would proved one book to be false if virtually all scholars agree on it...



I’m completely happy for my work to be used by Muslims.  Or by Mormons.  Or by Jews.  Or by Buddhists.  Or by Methodists, Episcopalians, Baptists, Lutherans, Roman Catholics, Russian Orthodox, or anyone else.   But I have to say that I do not see my scholarship as advancing the agenda of any of these groups.  I’m simply engaged in historical scholarship.  I do not think that the Qur’an has any particular insights about the historical Jesus that are to be taken as independent reports by historical scholars.  Neither does any other historical scholar that I know (or anyone who works seriously on the historical Jesus).

And I doubt very much that my views coincide with 99% of Islamic belief about Jesus. For one thing, I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus was physically crucified and died on the cross.  That is rock-bottom certain in my books.  And it stands completely at odds with standard Islamic beliefs.

– Bart Erhman

[pinkpanther]

700 years ago before Jesus was born Prophet Isaiah had already prophesied the coming of the Messiah lah!  The prophecy had been fulfilled liao lah!

[S I M T A N]

Hello and merry Christmas.

That is like God taking money from his own pocket and using it to pay himself. Does that make sense to you?

And how does God make a sacrifice when everything belongs to him?

Ali, given that you're theologically astute, you knew full well that I used 'ransom' as a metaphor for the blood of Jesus Christ that provides the payment for our sin debt and not using it in monetary terms. His blood is the only 'spiritual detergent' that can remove the stain of sin.

The cross of Jesus Christ represents the intersection of God's love and God's righteousness. The willingness of God to sacrifice in order to reconcile us to Himself is a demonstration of His love and spiritual amnesty for us. But the cross also represents God's righteousness, which demands a payment for our sins. Someone has to pay for our sin, and the cross is the place where Someone did.

As Paul wrote, 'Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him' (Rom 5:9) The unbeliever who has rejected or simply neglected God's offer of salvation through Christ first of all callously dismissed God's desire for a relationship. He's also 'trampled underfoot the Son of God.' (the phrase means to treat as worthless) 'Not believing the right things about Jesus' isn't some minor offence but is tantamount to rejecting and declaring Christ's death to be worthless.

[S I M T A N]

Thank you lah, bro!  Salvation is free of charge to us but it cost the life of God's only begotten Son Jesus Christ lah! When Jesus shouted on the cross, "It is finished!" It means that the transaction is done and God has already paid the price in full for our sins with the blood of Jesus lah!

Yes, "It is finished!" (John 19:30) which comes from a single Greek word meaning "paid in full."

Eternal redemption: *No more sacrifices to be offered year after year to cover over the stain of sin that keeps reappearing. *No more trying to earn God's favor by keeping an impossible list of rules. *No more fear of facing the eternal wrath of an angry God. Jesus ended all of this through His death for our sins. That's great for those who lived after Christ died, but how were the sins of people forgiven prior to Christ's death? Many assume that people who lived before Christ must have been saved in a different way than those of us who live after Christ.

Even today adherents are trying to curry favor with God through obedience to God's commands, through ritualistic acts, or through the offering of animal sacrifices. Paul took great pains to explain that Abraham's works and rituals were insufficient to make him right with God. Even the animal sacrifices commanded later under the Mosaic law were powerless to remove the permanent stain of people's sins. "It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." (Heb 10:4)

[pinkpanther]

If you're looking to learn about Jesus....his teachings, words and actions...then The Bible is the place to go..... the Quran is not where you'll find that information. 

Similarly, if you want to listen and enjoy Michael Jackson's music, you will know where to get the right source. Would you mistakenly choose a wrong source instead...like this one?

[cheekopekman]

Yes, "It is finished!" (John 19:30) which comes from a single Greek word meaning "paid in full."

Eternal redemption: *No more sacrifices to be offered year after year to cover over the stain of sin that keeps reappearing. *No more trying to earn God's favor by keeping an impossible list of rules. *No more fear of facing the eternal wrath of an angry God. Jesus ended all of this through His death for our sins. That's great for those who lived after Christ died, but how were the sins of people forgiven prior to Christ's death? Many assume that people who lived before Christ must have been saved in a different way than those of us who live after Christ.

Even today adherents are trying to curry favor with God through obedience to God's commands, through ritualistic acts, or through the offering of animal sacrifices. Paul took great pains to explain that Abraham's works and rituals were insufficient to make him right with God. Even the animal sacrifices commanded later under the Mosaic law were powerless to remove the permanent stain of people's sins. "It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." (Heb 10:4)

Thank you lah, bro!  I'm lousy in debates and arguments so I just leave it as it is lah! Those who don't believe or accept the truth so be it lah!

[pinkpanther]

Thank you lah, bro!  I'm lousy in debates and arguments so I just leave it as it is lah! Those who don't believe or accept the truth so be it lah!

If only there were more Moslems participating in this forum....

[pinkpanther]

Ali, given that you're theologically astute, you knew full well that I used 'ransom' as a metaphor for the blood of Jesus Christ that provides the payment for our sin debt and not using it in monetary terms. His blood is the only 'spiritual detergent' that can remove the stain of sin.

The cross of Jesus Christ represents the intersection of God's love and God's righteousness. The willingness of God to sacrifice in order to reconcile us to Himself is a demonstration of His love and spiritual amnesty for us. But the cross also represents God's righteousness, which demands a payment for our sins. Someone has to pay for our sin, and the cross is the place where Someone did.

As Paul wrote, 'Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him' (Rom 5:9) The unbeliever who has rejected or simply neglected God's offer of salvation through Christ first of all callously dismissed God's desire for a relationship. He's also 'trampled underfoot the Son of God.' (the phrase means to treat as worthless) 'Not believing the right things about Jesus' isn't some minor offence but is tantamount to rejecting and declaring Christ's death to be worthless.

'Spiritual detergent'   Nice way to describe it! I prefer Spiritual correction fluid...

Whenever Paul is brought up, Moslems tend to get stirred up and have a lot to express.... while Alice remains surprisingly silent, which is out of character for her...Maybe she  realises that she has misunderstood Paul all along..

[Hope]

Your interpretation might be wrong..angels are also Allah messengers.

Scholars say there are two reasons why angels are called "messengers". The first one is that they are Allah's messengers sent to people. They deliver revelation to prophets, give inspiration to righteous people and show true dreams to people in general.

See you learn something new everyday..

Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four (pairs): He adds to Creation as He pleases: for Allah has power over all things." (Fatir, 35/1)

As per Islam, Angels delivered messages only to prophets and messengers.

Which scholar said that angels deliver messages to righteous people and show true dreams to people?

Please don’t mix your belief here.

[pinkpanther]

As per Islam, Angels delivered messages only to prophets and messengers.

Which scholar said that angels deliver messages to righteous people and show true dreams to people?

Please don’t mix your belief here.

Bro, I don't mix your belief...trust me   I don say things which I cannot back up!

There is a hadith that says a man was travelling a long distance just to see a Muslim friend as he loved him for Allah's sake. He met a man on the way. The man asked him, “where are you going”? He replied “I am going to see my friend in so and so town”. The man replied “is this friend a relative”, he said “no, he is just a friend and I want to visit him for Allah's sake only”. The man said “I am a Messenger from Allah to you (I. E. An angel in human form) here to inform you that because you are doing this, Allah has forgiven you of all your past sins”.

It is found in the compilation of hadith by Imam Muslim and is narrated by Abu Huraira (may Allah be pleased with him). The essence of the story is that a man travels to see a friend for the sake of Allah, and on his journey, he encounters another man who informs him that his intention and action have earned him forgiveness from Allah for his past sins.

Sahih Muslim should be credible bro..

[Hope]

Why are you so certain of his existence when there is no evidence to support it? Are there any testimonies? Allah does not engage directly with His creation....the communication flows through a chain from Him to Gabriel, then to the Prophet, and finally to the people....

This what we call blind faith...Allah does not talk to his people!!

Allah created us to check if we believe in unseen and  following his  commands.

If Allah show himself to us,We would all believe in him.Then there would be no test and judgement day.Every one  including sinners would  want to  go to heaven without any works.
Allah says in the Quran that there are people that even if they saw all the evidence,they would still refuse to believe.Best example is iblis/ Satan.Is he not?He refused to obey him.

If Allah appears now, 100 years later some people will ask the same question again and again , which will break the idea of the divinity of our creator.

Remember Your God Jesus came to earth and lived 33 years ?
How many people accepted him as God during his life time?
Why can’t he come again?

[Hope]

You hv so much knowledge of the Bible. Very impressive.

He can’t explain Trinity 🙄

[pinkpanther]

As per Islam, Angels delivered messages only to prophets and messengers.

Which scholar said that angels deliver messages to righteous people and show true dreams to people?

Please don’t mix your belief here.

Read this my friend...About Allah's angels

The first one is that they are Allah’s messengers sent to people. They deliver revelation to prophets, give inspiration to righteous people and show true dreams to people in general.

The second one is that they are in charge of showing Allah's works of power to His creatures. They send down rain, drive the clouds and make winds move. (see Alusi, the interpretation of the first verse of the chapter of Fatir)

https://questionsonislam.com/question/al...-are-there

[Hope]

Is it haram for a Moslem to say Merry Christmas?

 It was narrated from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) in al-Musnad and as-Sunan that he said: “Whoever imitates a people is one of them."

I always knew that particular moslem was one of us

LOL

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/106668/i...tmas-haram

Jesus is a Prophet of Islam like other prophets.
We don’t celebrate their birthdays.

[Hope]

You see how he will deny all the eye witnesses accounts and believe someone who came 700 years later and take his words for it....you see his own contradictions?

His idol Muhammad even confirmed what the Christians have during his time was true!

We cannot decide on time line. It was Allah who sent messengers as he wanted .

It may take 70 , 7000 Or 7 years.

Prophet Muhammad didn’t confirm Christianity.

[pinkpanther]

He can’t explain Trinity 🙄

 Your good friend Alice used to frequently discuss the Trinity...but she's stopped doing so lately, which makes me think she's genuinely grasped the concept. Now, it's your turn to ask again on her behalf....

[pinkpanther]

We cannot decide on time line. It was Allah who sent messengers as he wanted .

It may take 70 , 7000 Or 7 years.

Prophet Muhammad didn’t confirmed Christianity.

I understand what you mean...the conditions must be met for God to send his prophet down even if it takes a long time....but Muhammad confirmed the torah and Bible to be true at the time....the Quran does not say that the texts were corrupted...it says people distorted it with their twisted tongue and take it out of context...

[pinkpanther]

Jesus is a Prophet of Islam like other prophets.
We don’t celebrate their birthdays.

You don celebrate Muhammad's birthday? I know it is not official in our calendar 
But many moslem countries celebrate Mawlid al-Nabi....
Have you not been to one before? 

Ask Alice...I'm sure she has experience at least a few times in her life!

[Hope]

Read this my friend...About Allah's angels

The first one is that they are Allah’s messengers sent to people. They deliver revelation to prophets, give inspiration to righteous people and show true dreams to people in general.

The second one is that they are in charge of showing Allah's works of power to His creatures. They send down rain, drive the clouds and make winds move. (see Alusi, the interpretation of the first verse of the chapter of Fatir)

https://questionsonislam.com/question/al...-are-there

Who is this scholar?

Again, Angels are Not messengers to humans.

There are at least 4 angels around any humans.They are not bringing any messages from Allah.