[Hope]

Bro, I don't mix your belief...trust me   I don say things which I cannot back up!

There is a hadith that says a man was travelling a long distance just to see a Muslim friend as he loved him for Allah's sake. He met a man on the way. The man asked him, “where are you going”? He replied “I am going to see my friend in so and so town”. The man replied “is this friend a relative”, he said “no, he is just a friend and I want to visit him for Allah's sake only”. The man said “I am a Messenger from Allah to you (I. E. An angel in human form) here to inform you that because you are doing this, Allah has forgiven you of all your past sins”.

It is found in the compilation of hadith by Imam Muslim and is narrated by Abu Huraira (may Allah be pleased with him). The essence of the story is that a man travels to see a friend for the sake of Allah, and on his journey, he encounters another man who informs him that his intention and action have earned him forgiveness from Allah for his past sins.

Sahih Muslim should be credible bro..

There are angels around us.
They are not bringing any message from Allah.

Where is the Hadith ref no?

[pinkpanther]

There are angels around us.
They are not bringing any message from Allah.

Where is the Hadith ref no?

I don have the reference but that does not mean it is not good  ..
Part of what I said can be found in this link 

https://messageinternational.org/the-pow...allah-swt/

In fact, when we love another person for the sake of Allah, we earn Allah’s love. The Prophet (s) has told us, “A man set out to visit a brother [in faith] in another town and Allah sent an angel [to meet him] on his way. When the man met the angel, the latter asked him, ‘Where do you intend to go?’ He said, ‘I intend to visit my brother in this town.’ The angel said, ‘Have you done any favor for him?’ He said, ‘No, I have no desire except to visit him because I love him for the sake of Allah, the Exalted, and Glorious.’ Thereupon the angel said, ‘I am a messenger to you from Allah: that Allah loves you as you love him [your brother in faith]’” (Muslim).

[pinkpanther]

Who is this scholar?

Again, Angels are Not messengers to humans.

There are at least 4 angels around any humans.They are not bringing any messages from Allah.

You forget one thing,....By Allah's permission, they can communicate with humans

[pinkpanther]

The prophet's birthday is a huge event in Msia...why Muslims don celebrate Jesus birthday?

[Ali Imran]

Ali, given that you're theologically astute, you knew full well that I used 'ransom' as a metaphor for the blood of Jesus Christ that provides the payment for our sin debt and not using it in monetary terms. His blood is the only 'spiritual detergent' that can remove the stain of sin.

The cross of Jesus Christ represents the intersection of God's love and God's righteousness. The willingness of God to sacrifice in order to reconcile us to Himself is a demonstration of His love and spiritual amnesty for us. But the cross also represents God's righteousness, which demands a payment for our sins. Someone has to pay for our sin, and the cross is the place where Someone did.

As Paul wrote, 'Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him' (Rom 5:9) The unbeliever who has rejected or simply neglected God's offer of salvation through Christ first of all callously dismissed God's desire for a relationship. He's also 'trampled underfoot the Son of God.' (the phrase means to treat as worthless) 'Not believing the right things about Jesus' isn't some minor offence but is tantamount to rejecting and declaring Christ's death to be worthless.

Yes, of course it's not money but payment nonetheless. God demands payment and God pays for it. That is exactly like how I described it earlier. 

And another thing. What you are describing there shows that there is no forgiveness in Christian theology. God cannot just forgive us when we do wrong. As you've said, our sins must be paid, and God paid for them himself, which is illogical when we are talking about God who owns everything in the universe. He cannot just forgive. Sin must be paid with blood.

[Ali Imran]

As Paul wrote, 'Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him' (Rom 5:9) The unbeliever who has rejected or simply neglected God's offer of salvation through Christ first of all callously dismissed God's desire for a relationship. He's also 'trampled underfoot the Son of God.' (the phrase means to treat as worthless) 'Not believing the right things about Jesus' isn't some minor offence but is tantamount to rejecting and declaring Christ's death to be worthless.

I don't believe Jesus is God and I cannot be blamed for it because it is illogical and irrational to believe a man who was walking about in downtown Jerusalem, who ate food and defecated was God. Jesus himself said many things that tell me he is not God, like John 17:3, Luke 18:19, John 10:29, or John 14:28. I can give you a long list of Jesus's teachings that tell me Jesus is not God. 

So, it is a great injustice to punish me for not believing Jesus is God when the Bible confirms for me that he is NOT God. There is no justice system we know that would do such an injustice yet you want me to believe God would.

[Ali Imran]

Thank you lah, bro!  I'm lousy in debates and arguments so I just leave it as it is lah! Those who don't believe or accept the truth so be it lah!

It is not you, it is the Bible.

The Bible has plenty of verses that will contradict your belief about Jesus and there is no way to reconcile the contradictions. The Bible produces all sorts of Christian denominations, and they all conflict with one another. 

Who has the truth among the Christians? The Catholics? The Pentecostals? The Evangelicals? The Unitarians? You don't know. You just anyhow believe what your church tells you to believe.

[victortan]

If u all got insomnia.

Just read this thread. Dont need to take sleeping pill.

It work better than melatonin

I read the first line only my eye close shop Liao. ✌️🕉✝️♈️☪️😂🤟✌️🙏🏻🙏🏻👍❤️

[Blasterlord2]

If u all got insomnia.

Just read this thread. Dont need to take sleeping pill.

It work better than melatonin

I read the first line only my eye close shop Liao. ✌️🕉✝️♈️☪️😂🤟✌️🙏🏻🙏🏻👍❤️

No lah, I dun get sleepy reading this thread. But I get a  good laugh at the stupidity of all the arguments.

[Geneco]

need some advice on which scripture reading needed after xmas how to get blood off ya hands?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAw78MpeL5c

[S I M T A N]

Yes, of course it's not money but payment nonetheless. God demands payment and God pays for it. That is exactly like how I described it earlier. 

And another thing. What you are describing there shows that there is no forgiveness in Christian theology. God cannot just forgive us when we do wrong. As you've said, our sins must be paid, and God paid for them himself, which is illogical when we are talking about God who owns everything in the universe. He cannot just forgive. Sin must be paid with blood.

The God that we know possesses a number of attributes - omnipotence (all-powerful), omniscience (all-knowing), just, loving and so on and so forth. But the one attribute that transcends all others is holy. When the prophet Isaiah saw the vision of God on the throne, he heard the angels crying out, "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of hosts." (Isa 6:3) The angels didn't cry out "Love, Love, Love," or "Just, Just, Just," or "Omnipotent, Omnipotent, Omnipotent."

There's only one word that can depict the totality of God's being: holy, which comes from a Hebrew word meaning "to cut" or "to separate." That means God is a "cut above" everyone and everything, and is separate from anything or anyone else in creation after it went haywire. God's holiness means He's separate from everything, including sin. He's beyond any contact with evil. "Your eyes are too pure to approve evil. And You cannot look on wickedness with favor" (Hab 1:13)

Of all the attributes that create a distance between God and us, it is His zero tolerance for sin of any kind that makes Him wholly different from us. We may imagine ourselves to be morally superior to God because we're more accepting of sin than He is. You wonder why can't God be as tolerant of people's mistakes as we are？ It's because God isn't like us. The fact that we can tolerate sin in others - especially in ourselves - isn't proof of our godliness but actually evidence of our ungodliness. The holiness or separateness of God creates a moral distance between the Creator and us that began in the Garden of Eden and extends into our lives today.

So we see the seriousness of man's sin and the necessity for a blood offering to cover that sin - the once-for-all sin offering that ultimately only God Himself could provide.

[S I M T A N]

I don't believe Jesus is God and I cannot be blamed for it because it is illogical and irrational to believe a man who was walking about in downtown Jerusalem, who ate food and defecated was God. Jesus himself said many things that tell me he is not God, like John 17:3, Luke 18:19, John 10:29, or John 14:28. I can give you a long list of Jesus's teachings that tell me Jesus is not God. 

So, it is a great injustice to punish me for not believing Jesus is God when the Bible confirms for me that he is NOT God. There is no justice system we know that would do such an injustice yet you want me to believe God would.

I'd previously quoted  several passages from the Bible pertaining the divinity of Christ, and I do not want to keep going around in circles. Contrary to what you believe, Jesus's crucifixion wasn't a tragic epilogue to an otherwise happy story, nor was His death a ransom and senseless act of violence that cut short a great life. Jesus was born to die.

[S I M T A N]

'Spiritual detergent'   Nice way to describe it! I prefer Spiritual correction fluid...

Whenever Paul is brought up, Moslems tend to get stirred up and have a lot to express.... while Alice remains surprisingly silent, which is out of character for her...Maybe she  realises that she has misunderstood Paul all along..

Haha, spiritual correction fluid (Jesus's blood) may paper over the blot of sin and make the person whiter than white. Any way we slice it, the precious blood of Christ - the unblemished Lamb of God - takes the sin of the world and permanently removes the stain of sin (John 1:29)

[Hope]

It is not you, it is the Bible.

The Bible has plenty of verses that will contradict your belief about Jesus and there is no way to reconcile the contradictions. The Bible produces all sorts of Christian denominations, and they all conflict with one another. 

Who has the truth among the Christians? The Catholics? The Pentecostals? The Evangelicals? The Unitarians? You don't know. You just anyhow believe what your church tells you to believe.

We have chosen some of those messengers above others.Allah spoke directly to some, and raised some high in rank. To Jesus, son of Mary, We gave clear proofs and supported him with the holy spirit.If Allah had willed, succeeding generations would not have fought ˹among themselves˺ after receiving the clear proofs. But they differed—some believed while others disbelieved. Yet if Allah had willed, they would not have fought one another. But Allah does what He wills.Quran 2:253

[Hope]

I don't believe Jesus is God and I cannot be blamed for it because it is illogical and irrational to believe a man who was walking about in downtown Jerusalem, who ate food and defecated was God. Jesus himself said many things that tell me he is not God, like John 17:3, Luke 18:19, John 10:29, or John 14:28. I can give you a long list of Jesus's teachings that tell me Jesus is not God. 

So, it is a great injustice to punish me for not believing Jesus is God when the Bible confirms for me that he is NOT God. There is no justice system we know that would do such an injustice yet you want me to believe God would.

Not only ate food, He also depended on others for his food.
They believe Jesus fed 10000 people with 2 fishes and 5 loaves of bread. Yet he had to depend on others for his daily meal🙄.

[Ali Imran]

The God that we know possesses a number of attributes - omnipotence (all-powerful), omniscience (all-knowing), just, loving and so on and so forth. But the one attribute that transcends all others is holy. When the prophet Isaiah saw the vision of God on the throne, he heard the angels crying out, "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of hosts." (Isa 6:3) The angels didn't cry out "Love, Love, Love," or "Just, Just, Just," or "Omnipotent, Omnipotent, Omnipotent."

There's only one word that can depict the totality of God's being: holy, which comes from a Hebrew word meaning "to cut" or "to separate." That means God is a "cut above" everyone and everything, and is separate from anything or anyone else in creation after it went haywire. God's holiness means He's separate from everything, including sin. He's beyond any contact with evil. "Your eyes are too pure to approve evil. And You cannot look on wickedness with favor" (Hab 1:13)

Of all the attributes that create a distance between God and us, it is His zero tolerance for sin of any kind that makes Him wholly different from us. We may imagine ourselves to be morally superior to God because we're more accepting of sin than He is. You wonder why can't God be as tolerant of people's mistakes as we are？ It's because God isn't like us. The fact that we can tolerate sin in others - especially in ourselves - isn't proof of our godliness but actually evidence of our ungodliness. The holiness or separateness of God creates a moral distance between the Creator and us that began in the Garden of Eden and extends into our lives today.

So we see the seriousness of man's sin and the necessity for a blood offering to cover that sin - the once-for-all sin offering that ultimately only God Himself could provide.

Yes, I already know what you believe about our Creator. You believe our Creator is not a forgiving God. He created us with a propensity to sin, yet he cannot tolerate our sins. You believe God will throw me in hell for stealing a lollipop because he cannot just forgive me, even if I am sorry for that wrong.

Do you have an answer as to why our Creator created us with the propensity to sin when he cannot tolerate sins?

[Hope]

The prophet's birthday is a huge event in Msia...why Muslims don celebrate Jesus birthday?

This is called bidah in Islamic term.
People have been trying to insert the practice of non Muslim. They have failed.

[Ali Imran]

I'd previously quoted  several passages from the Bible pertaining the divinity of Christ, and I do not want to keep going around in circles. Contrary to what you believe, Jesus's crucifixion wasn't a tragic epilogue to an otherwise happy story, nor was His death a ransom and senseless act of violence that cut short a great life. Jesus was born to die.

That's the thing. I can quote plenty of verses from the NT that explicitly say Jesus is NOT God but you can only quote to me only a few ambiguous verses to argue for the divinity of Jesus.

[Hope]

You forget one thing,....By Allah's permission, they can communicate with humans

They don’t communicate with humans.
Those angles around us note down our deeds 24x7.
Also they protect us from any harm.

[Lukongsimi]

Not only ate food, He also depended on others for his food.
They believe Jesus fed 10000 people with 2 fishes and 5 loaves of bread. Yet he had to depend on others for his daily meal🙄.

Jesus turned water into wine 
On His last day on earth He rose up to heaven 
He died and was resurrected 
He supplied food to feed the 5k people 
He healed so
Many sick and casted out devil 
He lived as a man to teach us the words of God
What else so difficult to believe?

[Hope]

I understand what you mean...the conditions must be met for God to send his prophet down even if it takes a long time....but Muhammad confirmed the torah and Bible to be true at the time....the Quran does not say that the texts were corrupted...it says people distorted it with their twisted tongue and take it out of context...

Islam doesn’t recognise a bible,old testament and New Testament.

It recognise only Sabur, Taurat, Injeel.(plsam, Torah, Gospel).As per Quran those have been distorted.

[Hope]

 Your good friend Alice used to frequently discuss the Trinity...but she's stopped doing so lately, which makes me think she's genuinely grasped the concept. Now, it's your turn to ask again on her behalf....

don’t slip away.

Please explain the trinity with each of their roles.

[cheekopekman]

It is not you, it is the Bible.

The Bible has plenty of verses that will contradict your belief about Jesus and there is no way to reconcile the contradictions. The Bible produces all sorts of Christian denominations, and they all conflict with one another. 

Who has the truth among the Christians? The Catholics? The Pentecostals? The Evangelicals? The Unitarians? You don't know. You just anyhow believe what your church tells you to believe.

The Bible to us Christians is the Word of God spoken by Him and written by men whom He had appointed lah!  "Let there be light!" God said that in Genesis 1:3, the 1st statement of God, which was recorded by Moses. Do you have any problem with that leh? You can't go any further if you can't believe and accept what God had said here lah!

[pinkpanther]

This is called bidah in Islamic term.
People have been trying to insert the practice of non Muslim. They have failed.

This is committing shirk right? This is idol worshipping isn't it....

[pinkpanther]

Islam doesn’t recognise a bible,old testament and New Testament.

It recognise only Sabur, Taurat, Injeel.(plsam, Torah, Gospel).As per Quran those have been distorted.

During Muhammad's time, the Christians have the Bible which consist of the OT and NT..Matthew, Mark, Luke, John....

the Quran reports how the apostles proclaimed their belief in Jesus, how God revealed messages to them (on at least two occasions), and how God supported them against the Jews for the sake of their belief in Jesus..

The Quran does not say that the previous scriptures are distorted....if the Torah is distorted, why did Muhammad says that he believes it?

[Ali Imran]

The Bible to us Christians is the Word of God spoken by Him and written by men whom He had appointed lah!  "Let there be light!" God said that in Genesis 1:3, the 1st statement of God, which was recorded by Moses. Do you have any problem with that leh? You can't go any further if you can't believe and accept what God had said here lah!

Which Bible is the word of God? I'm sure you know that there are many different Bible. For example, the Catholic Bible contains more books than your Bible. Also the Greek Orthodox Bible has even more books than the Catholic Bible and the Ethiopian Bible has more books than the Greek Orthodox. Even the modern Bible has differences. The NIV is different from the KJV. 

So tell me, which Bible is the word of God?

[pinkpanther]

They don’t communicate with humans.
Those angles around us note down our deeds 24x7.
Also they protect us from any harm.

Fatwa:

All perfect praise be to Allah, The Lord of the Worlds. I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allah, and that Muhammad  is His slave and Messenger.

The texts of the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet  prove that the angels may take human forms, and that Allah blesses some people by making the angels speak to them. Allah Says about Maryam (Mary) (what means): {…then We sent to her Our Rooh (angel Jibreel (Gabriel)), and he appeared before her in the form of a man in all respects.} [Quran 19:17].

[Hope]

Jesus turned water into wine 
On His last day on earth He rose up to heaven 
He died and was resurrected 
He supplied food to feed the 5k people 
He healed so
Many sick and casted out devil 
He lived as a man to teach us the words of God
What else so difficult to believe?

If he could fed 5000 people miraculously, why should he depended on others for his daily meals?

[pinkpanther]

Alice argues that it is illogical and irrational for a man who is considered God to engage in eating and defecating.... I would suggest that if she insists on applying logic and reason to everything, she might want to reconsider her beliefs and return to atheism.

 Similarly, it's hard to believe that Muhammad could physically ascend to heaven without an oxygen tank, given that the air is thinner and more compressed up there...it's likely he would have lost consciousness before reaching that height.

[Hope]

This is committing shirk right? This is idol worshipping isn't it....

This is called Bidah(Innovation)

Shirk is associating partners to Allah.If we glorify Jesus/Muhammad or any other being other than Allah.

Idol worship is worshiping idols.