[cityhantam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EgiXK_vGgk

[Ali Imran]

In reply to your previous posts some time back regarding the controversial sola fide principle, I gave a blow-by-blow explanation of the problematic verses. But you didn't address the issues I raised, such as people not reading James's verses in context or reading them out of context. Whatever I'd written about the sola fide issue time and time again, you just passed it over. You misinterpreted those verses, and your stock reply would be "Christians say no need to be obedient to God's law," and "Can disregard God's commandments," which of course is completely unscriptural.

When James says that we've been born again and justified by faith, he doesn't think we're born again by our works. A person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. James was replying to errorists who mistakenly thought that if they had faith, they didn't need to show their love by a life of faith (James 2:14-17) He countered this error by teaching that true, saving faith is alive, showing itself to be so by deeds of love (James 2:18,26). The author of James taught that justification is by faith alone and also that faith is never alone but shows itself to be alive by good deeds that express a believer's thanks to God for the free gift of salvation by faith in Jesus Christ. James actually stressed the necessity of good works as a consequence or "fruit" of faith.

The crux of the matter is that people can't earn their salvation by keeping a set of rules because Jesus removed the law as a requirement for achieving righteousness with God (Rom 10:4). This doesn't mean we can celebrate, discard the law and have no misgiving about sinning. In Christianity, faith and works go hand in hand. The essential truths of the gospel are simple enough for a youngster to understand them. It's quite clear that Jesus taught justification by faith alone. Sola fide is a central biblical distinctive, if not the single most important doctrine to get right. This is the doctrine that makes authentic Christianity distinct from every other religions, including yours.

For people like you who preach salvation by works, I can only conclude that they do not believe that sola fide is the only alternative to a damning system of works-based salvation.

How do you choose which of God's commandments you must obey? Or do you believe there are no more commandments to obey?

[victortan]

How do you choose which of God's commandments you must obey? Or do you believe there are no more commandments to obey?

I dont believe u all got pray 5 times, 

I dont think u all even know how to pray..

I think only u pray once a year only during hari raya at the mosque to show off.
wear turban and long robe like holy man,

[S I M T A N]

How do you choose which of God's commandments you must obey? Or do you believe there are no more commandments to obey?

The number of things one would have to do to keep the law is staggering and too numerous to mention. None of us can do it successfully. Measured by God's holy standard of perfection we can do nothing but "fall short of the glory of God," whether by little or much is irrelevant. We're quite helpless to remedy this condition. Those who have made an all-out effort to live right or be good all the time appreciate the futility of such endeavours. The hard fact is that no one has ever yet succeeded in saying themselves from their own sins.

The Bible takes a very realistic view of the human predicament. God already knows we'll never be completely perfect as long as we live on the earth. He does expect each of us to keep pressing on by sincerely doing our best every day to serve Him. When we keep practicing the new behaviours of our new way of thinking and living, we'll eventually replace our old behaviours with the new ones as our lifestyle.

One of God's commandments is to live purely within the boundaries of His law, and it's to find wholeness in the total person. That wholeness is what holiness is all about. (1 Thessalonians 4:7) The Bible says, "Honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with promise: that it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth." (Eph 6:2-3) We are to develop a hunger for the things of God, and fearing God means having a deeply committed respect, love and reverence for His authority and power. Admitting our failures, asking for forgiveness for our sins, and being willing to turn from them is a big part. If we do this, God will do the rest. God's strength is made perfect in man's weakness.

[S I M T A N]

Mission is my passion lah, bro!  Ever since I became a Christian long ago as a teenager I have been busy going on mission trips lah! I was trained and equipped for God's works with God's Word lah! As I read the Bible, especially the Book of Acts, I also learned to do what those apostles had done before in my own small ways. That's why I said that many Muslims have become Christians because we reached out to them with the gospel of salvation and led them to say the sinner's prayer to receive Christ as their Lord and Saviour lah! They were then trained and equipped to go back into their Muslims community and save more souls for the Lord lah! Those who refused to believe and accept Jesus I leave them into the hands of the Lord lah! Let God deal with them in His own ways lah!

You seem to be living a full and satisfying life, what with your involvement in your church activities such as outreach, evangelization, and going on mission trips. You may be wanting in debating skill, but you certainly aren't wanting in confidence and enthusiasm for the work you're doing, which doesn't require verbal dexterity. Cheerio!

[cheekopekman]

You seem to be living a full and satisfying life, what with your involvement in your church activities such as outreach, evangelization, and going on mission trips. You may be wanting in debating skill, but you certainly aren't wanting in confidence and enthusiasm for the work you're doing, which doesn't require verbal dexterity. Cheerio!

I know my weakness in debates and arguments, so I put in more strength in doing God's works with His Word lah!  God won't say that I'm good for winning an argument but I want to hear Him say that I'm a good and faithful servant lah! Even Jesus during His earthly ministry didn't waste time arguing with those Pharisees and religious leaders but He served them lah! I want to learn from the Lord lah!

[pinkpanther]

I know my weakness in debates and arguments, so I put in more strength in doing God's works with His Word lah!  God won't say that I'm good for winning an argument but I want to hear Him say that I'm a good and faithful servant lah! Even Jesus during His earthly ministry didn't waste time arguing with those Pharisees and religious leaders but He served them lah! I want to learn from the Lord lah!

The Pharisee and the Tax Collector (Luke 18:9-14): The Pharisee boasts about his good deeds, while the tax collector humbly acknowledges his sinfulness. Jesus praises the tax collector's humility, showing that God values a contrite heart.

[pinkpanther]

I know my weakness in debates and arguments, so I put in more strength in doing God's works with His Word lah!  God won't say that I'm good for winning an argument but I want to hear Him say that I'm a good and faithful servant lah! Even Jesus during His earthly ministry didn't waste time arguing with those Pharisees and religious leaders but He served them lah! I want to learn from the Lord lah!

 Jesus used His interactions with the Pharisees to challenge their understanding and reveal the truth about God’s Kingdom...so Jesus did engaged in meaningful dialogue, aimed at transformation..so it is not a waste of time lah

[pinkpanther]

I dont believe u all got pray 5 times, 

I dont think u all even know how to pray..

I think only u pray once a year only during hari raya at the mosque to show off.
wear turban and long robe like holy man,

[Ali Imran]

I dont believe u all got pray 5 times, 

I dont think u all even know how to pray..

I think only u pray once a year only during hari raya at the mosque to show off.
wear turban and long robe like holy man,

Below is the timing for our 5 daily prayers. Go to any mosque 5 minutes before those times and you will see Muslims going into the mosque. 

[Ali Imran]

The number of things one would have to do to keep the law is staggering and too numerous to mention. None of us can do it successfully. Measured by God's holy standard of perfection we can do nothing but "fall short of the glory of God," whether by little or much is irrelevant. We're quite helpless to remedy this condition. Those who have made an all-out effort to live right or be good all the time appreciate the futility of such endeavours. The hard fact is that no one has ever yet succeeded in saying themselves from their own sins.

The Bible takes a very realistic view of the human predicament. God already knows we'll never be completely perfect as long as we live on the earth. He does expect each of us to keep pressing on by sincerely doing our best every day to serve Him. When we keep practicing the new behaviours of our new way of thinking and living, we'll eventually replace our old behaviours with the new ones as our lifestyle.

One of God's commandments is to live purely within the boundaries of His law, and it's to find wholeness in the total person. That wholeness is what holiness is all about. (1 Thessalonians 4:7) The Bible says, "Honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with promise: that it may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth." (Eph 6:2-3) We are to develop a hunger for the things of God, and fearing God means having a deeply committed respect, love and reverence for His authority and power. Admitting our failures, asking for forgiveness for our sins, and being willing to turn from them is a big part. If we do this, God will do the rest. God's strength is made perfect in man's weakness.

Ok. Let me be more precise with my question. One of God's commandments is the Sabbath. Do you observe the Sabbath the same way Jesus observed it?

[Lukongsimi]

Even Jesus during His earthly ministry didn't waste time arguing with those Pharisees and religious leaders but He served them lah! I want to learn from the Lord lah!

This is why Jesus had a problem with the Pharisees. “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to” (Matthew 23:13).

[Lukongsimi]

Ok. Let me be more precise with my question. One of God's commandments is the Sabbath. Do you observe the Sabbath the same way Jesus observed it?

Mark 12:30-31

New International Version


30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[a] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] There is no commandment greater than these.”

[Lukongsimi]

Yes where is Hope? We need his input to continue the discussion...otherwise, I believe the thread is nearing its end. Readers have likely gathered enough information to form their own opinions on whether Bible or quran presents a more compelling case as the word of God and which they find more trustworthy...

Comparing the lives of Jesus and Muhammad, it seems clear that they could not be worshipping the same God!

No more Hope Liao ?

[Ali Imran]

Mark 12:30-31

New International Version

30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[a] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] There is no commandment greater than these.”

You didn't answer the question. But anyhow, when Jesus said those words, does he mean only the Father or the Trinity?

[Lukongsimi]

You didn't answer the question. But anyhow, when Jesus said those words, does he mean only the Father or the Trinity?

3 are 1 
In a Christian context, a modern day “Pharisee” is someone who follows the impulse to be seen as righteous by obeying certain laws, while ignoring more important matters of the heart.

[Ali Imran]

3 are 1 
In a Christian context, a modern day “Pharisee” is someone who follows the impulse to be seen as righteous by obeying certain laws, while ignoring more important matters of the heart.

But Jesus said the Father is the only true God. Why would he include other gods when he commanded his followers to "Love the Lord your God.."? On top of that, Jesus also taught his followers to pray ONLY to the Father, "Our Father who is in heaven...".

How can you convince me that Jesus actually meant the Trinity when he spoke of God?

[Lukongsimi]

But Jesus said the Father is the only true God. Why would he include other gods when he commanded his followers to "Love the Lord your God.."? On top of that, Jesus also taught his followers to pray ONLY to the Father, "Our Father who is in heaven...".

How can you convince me that Jesus actually meant the Trinity when he spoke of God?

Why should I convince u when your heart is hardened,ears closed.
Let the bible speaks 
John 1

King James Version


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭5‬ ‭KJV

[Ali Imran]

Why should I convince u when your heart is hardened,ears closed.
Let the bible speaks 
John 1

King James Version


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭5‬ ‭KJV

My eyes are opened and I'm reading the same text you're reading. Jesus said, in John 17:3, the Father is the only true God and he excluded himself by saying he was the messenger the Father sent. What Jesus said in John 17:3 is a typical shahadah of a Muslim, albeit not Muhammad but Jesus as the messenger.

What you're quoting from John 1 are not the words of Jesus. Please remember my question. How can you convince me that Jesus was talking about a Triune God when he spoke of God as recorded in the Gospels?

Peace be upon the mighty messengers of Allah mentioned.

[Lukongsimi]

My eyes are opened and I'm reading the same text you're reading. Jesus said, in John 17:3, the Father is the only true God and he excluded himself by saying he was the messenger the Father sent. What Jesus said in John 17:3 is a typical shahadah of a Muslim, albeit not Muhammad but Jesus as the messenger.

What you're quoting from John 1 are not the words of Jesus. Please remember my question. How can you convince me that Jesus was talking about a Triune God when he spoke of God as recorded in the Gospels?

Peace be upon the mighty messengers of Allah mentioned.

U only cherry pick the verses u like.same old question getting stale.
How come your religion needs  to add a man muh  in prayer ?
2 in 1 kopi O?

[pinkpanther]

U only cherry pick the verses u like.same old question getting stale.
How come your religion needs  to add a man muh  in prayer ?
2 in 1 kopi O?

[cheekopekman]

The Pharisee and the Tax Collector (Luke 18:9-14): The Pharisee boasts about his good deeds, while the tax collector humbly acknowledges his sinfulness. Jesus praises the tax collector's humility, showing that God values a contrite heart.

 Jesus used His interactions with the Pharisees to challenge their understanding and reveal the truth about God’s Kingdom...so Jesus did engaged in meaningful dialogue, aimed at transformation..so it is not a waste of time lah

This is why Jesus had a problem with the Pharisees. “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to” (Matthew 23:13).

Jesus just gave them His Word and left them to think about it lah!  No point arguing lah!

[pinkpanther]

Jesus just gave them His Word and left them to think about it lah!  No point arguing lah!

Jesus denounced the Pharisees with strong words: “Now you Pharisees cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. You fools! Did not he who made the outside make the inside also? But give as alms those things that are within, and behold, everything is clean for you.

Jesus called them "fools"....Jesus also like debates lah

[pinkpanther]

Jesus just gave them His Word and left them to think about it lah!  No point arguing lah!

Jesus engaged in debates and discussions, particularly with religious leaders like the Pharisees and Sadducees. His ministry often involved challenging established beliefs and practices, which naturally led to debates. Here are some aspects of Jesus' interactions that demonstrate this:

Questioning and Counter-Questioning: Jesus frequently responded to questions with questions, challenging his interlocutors to examine their own assumptions and beliefs.

Use of Parables: Parables, while stories, often served as indirect arguments, presenting alternative perspectives on moral and spiritual matters. They invited listeners to contemplate and debate the meaning.

Conflict and Argument: The Gospels depict Jesus in direct conflict with religious authorities, disputing their interpretations of the law, their traditions, and their understanding of God's will.

Defense of His Actions and Teachings: When challenged, Jesus would often defend his actions and teachings with reasoned arguments, drawing on scripture, logic, and appeals to conscience.

Emphasis on Dialogue: While he sometimes used strong language, Jesus' ministry was also characterized by efforts to engage in dialogue and offer his perspectives.

I also follow Jesus lah Do you follow also? Lol

[pinkpanther]

Jesus just gave them His Word and left them to think about it lah!  No point arguing lah!

Do you think that Jesus will tell the pharisee:" Bro, is my answer OK? I don't want to lose a friend?" 

[Lukongsimi]

Do you think that Jesus will tell the pharisee:" Bro, is my answer OK? I don't want to lose a friend?" 

😂

If threaten by anti christ.. will ckp take the mark of the beast to save his head?

[pinkpanther]

😂

If threaten by anti christ.. will ckp take the mark of the beast to save his head?

 Well said!

Accepting the mark of the Beast is an admission that you place more value upon the things and relationships of this world than you do upon an eternity with Christ and God the Father.

[pinkpanther]

U only cherry pick the verses u like.same old question getting stale.
How come your religion needs  to add a man muh  in prayer ?
2 in 1 kopi O?

God created Muhammad and ask the Moslems to praise the dead prophet in the same prayer to Him 

Make sense or not?

[Lukongsimi]

God created Muhammad and ask the Moslems to praise the dead prophet in the same prayer to Him 

Make sense or not?

Make No sense 
N they still argue with our trinity

[Lukongsimi]

Jesus just gave them His Word and left them to think about it lah!  No point arguing lah!

They chase us for answers we gave them it’s not arguing 
If to keep quiet they will think our belief is empty no proof.