[Ali Imran]

Book of Isaiah is neither from the Torah or the Gospel. Isaiah is also not mentioned in the Quran..

On what ground can you place your faith on something you are not taught to believe...

On the ground that the information is identical.

So, you got a lesson from me today. No charge. I'm happy to educate you.

[pinkpanther]

On the ground that the information is identical.

So, you got a lesson from me today. No charge. I'm happy to educate you.

So you will take anything from external sources as long as they are compatible to your faith?

The Quran does not teach moslems to believe books from the tanahk..  This is Bidah...and you do not follow the teachings of Muhammad...

No need to thanks mẹ for educating you how to be a moslem

[Ali Imran]

So you will take anything from external sources as long as they are compatible to your faith?

The Quran does not teach moslems to believe books from the tanahk..  This is Bidah...and you do not follow the teachings of Muhammad...

No need to thanks mẹ for educating you how to be a moslem

There is no serious bida'ah if we take Isaiah as a prophet, even though his name wasn't mentioned explicitly in the Quran. The Messenger of Allah صلي الله عليه وسلم says that there are as many as 125,000 prophets sent, with many of them sent to the children of Israel.

So, I can say Isaiah was a prophet, with a disclaimer which I've often made, wallahu 'alam.

So no, you're not educating me. I am already educated on that.

[pinkpanther]

There is no serious bida'ah if we take Isaiah as a prophet, even though his name wasn't mentioned explicitly in the Quran. The Messenger of Allah صلي الله عليه وسلم says that there are as many as 125,000 prophets sent, with many of them sent to the children of Israel.

So, I can say Isaiah was a prophet, with a disclaimer which I've often made, wallahu 'alam.

So no, you're not educating me. I am already educated on that.

How many times must you reject the teachings of your Quran? Muslims are instructed to believe only in the Quran, the Torah (Tawrat), the Psalms (Zabur), and the Gospel (Injil). 

First, you seem to disagree with Allah and Muhammad regarding the Injil. Second, you believe in a book that you have not been taught to accept. 

Are you a kafir? * Long sigh*

[Ali Imran]

How many times must you reject the teachings of your Quran? Muslims are instructed to believe only in the Quran, the Torah (Tawrat), the Psalms (Zabur), and the Gospel (Injil). 

First, you seem to disagree with Allah and Muhammad regarding the Injil. Second, you believe in a book that you have not been taught to accept. 

Are you a kafir? * Long sigh*

No, I don't disagree with the Quran or the authentic Hadith.

I disagree with your interpretation. Let me ask you again. What makes you think you are correct in your interpretation of the Quran and the Hadith, and our scholars are wrong

[pinkpanther]

No, I don't disagree with the Quran or the authentic Hadith.

I disagree with your interpretation. Let me ask you again. What makes you think you are correct in your interpretation of the Quran and the Hadith, and our scholars are wrong

I believe you are as backwards as your religion.
 My understanding of your Quranic verses is primarily informed by AI, which I trust to have a better grasp than you do. If you can't demonstrate that I'm mistaken, then pls don make a fool of yourself .

[Ali Imran]

I believe you are as backwards as your religion.
 My understanding of your Quranic verses is primarily informed by AI, which I trust to have a better grasp than you do. If you can't demonstrate that I'm mistaken, then pls don make a fool of yourself .

I have demonstrated many of your mistaken interpretations. In the first place, you should not be making exegesis given your lack of knowledge. You are not knowledgeable in Christianity, like not knowing that Paul was paraphrasing Isaiah. What makes you think you can make an exegesis of the Quran and the Hadith?

The simplest argument I gave against your silly notion of the dilemma is the authentic Hadith where our Prophet told us not to believe nor disbelieve your scriptures. Yet, you want to insist that our Prophet believed your scriptures.

[pinkpanther]

I have demonstrated many of your mistaken interpretations. In the first place, you should not be making exegesis given your lack of knowledge. You are not knowledgeable in Christianity, like not knowing that Paul was paraphrasing Isaiah. What makes you think you can make an exegesis of the Quran and the Hadith?

The simplest argument I gave against your silly notion of the dilemma is the authentic Hadith where our Prophet told us not to believe nor disbelieve your scriptures. Yet, you want to insist that our Prophet believed your scriptures.

You truly are a disbeliever...You're turning to Hadiths to validate the Quran, which suggests that the Quran isn't as comprehensive as Islam claims. ...

The points I debated with you are rooted within the context of the Quran itself, whereas you resort to the Hadiths ( human works) to justify the Quran. That is strike number 3 my friend.

Oh the prophet in your Hadith did not even say that what the people of the books have were all corrupted books..

[Ali Imran]

You truly are a disbeliever...You're turning to Hadiths to validate the Quran, which suggests that the Quran isn't as comprehensive as Islam claims. ...

The points I debated with you are rooted within the context of the Quran itself, whereas you resort to the Hadiths ( human works) to justify the Quran. That is strike number 3 my friend.

LOL

The Quran confirms the forgeries in the Bible. The Bible confirms the forgeries in the Bible. Our Prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم told us to neither believe nor disbelieve the Bible.

What more do I need to say?

[Ali Imran]

Nap time.

[pinkpanther]

LOL

The Quran confirms the forgeries in the Bible. The Bible confirms the forgeries in the Bible. Our Prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم told us to neither believe not disbelieve it.

  you believe in the Hadiths and not the Quran?
Then what is Allah and Muhammad affirming? Affirming corrupted scriptures? 

Islam makes a lot of claims that they cannot prove...
It is akin to blaming someone who set fire without any proof...

[pinkpanther]

Nap time.

Sleep is a form of death

[Ali Imran]

  you believe in the Hadiths and not the Quran?
Then what is Allah and Muhammad affirming? Affirming corrupted scriptures? 

Islam makes a lot of claims that they cannot prove...
It is akin to blaming someone who set fire without any proof...

You need to first learn to be humble. You know you have almost zero knowledge, but you argue as though you are a learned person.

In the Quran, Allah affirms the revelation given to the children of Israel. It is in our principle of faith to believe the children of Israel were given revelations. Allah also affirms that the woeful people among them have distorted the revelations given to them. What they don't like, they will hide or erase, and put in place their own words, to trick the people, a trivial gain. This is the picture given to us. 

Wallahu 'alam.

[Ali Imran]

Sleep is a form of death

Yes, that's true.

[pinkpanther]

You need to first learn to be humble. You know you have almost zero knowledge, but you argue as though you are a learned person.

In the Quran, Allah affirms the revelation given to the children of Israel. It is in our principle of faith to believe the children of Israel were given revelations. Allah also affirms that the woeful people among them have distorted the revelations given to them. What they don't like, they will hide or erase, and put in place their own words, to trick the people, a trivial gain. This is the picture given to us. 

Wallahu 'alam.

You need to first learn to be humble. You know you have almost zero knowledge, The Bible is well preserved and reliable but you argue as though you are a learned person. You only have a few scholars that would support your case

The Quran affirmed the Injil that was revealed to Jesus and the Christians were reading it....what they were reading were exactly the same as what we read today according to scholars..so what corruption are you talking about? You made a claim that we do not have the Injil that directly contradicts the Quran and it also claim that Mohamed was mentioned in the torah and Gospel..

Since you cannot find the Prophet's name in the scriptures, the convenient explanation is that our books have been corrupted. It is quite ironic that Jesus, according to the Quran, made a claim about the name of Muhammad which is said to be found in our scriptures...yet Allah supposedly failed to preserve this crucial piece of information. Islam often makes assertions that it cannot substantiate with concrete proof, raising questions about their validity.

[Ali Imran]

You need to first learn to be humble. You know you have almost zero knowledge, The Bible is well preserved and reliable but you argue as though you are a learned person. You only have a few scholars that would support your case

The Quran affirmed the Injil that was revealed to Jesus and the Christians were reading it....what they were reading were exactly the same as what we read today according to scholars..so what corruption are you talking about? You made a claim that we do not have the Injil that directly contradicts the Quran and it also claim that Mohamed was mentioned in the torah and Gospel..

Since you cannot find the Prophet's name in the scriptures, the convenient explanation is that our books have been corrupted. It is quite ironic that Jesus, according to the Quran, made a claim about the name of Muhammad which is said to be found in our scriptures...yet Allah supposedly failed to preserve this crucial piece of information. Islam often makes assertions that it cannot substantiate with concrete proof, raising questions about their validity.

Did Jesus preach the Gospel according to Mark? Or preach the Gospel according to Matthew? The answer is no. So, do you have the words of Jesus, ie the Injeel? No.

How come you still bringing the same argument when you were already told that you don't have the words of Jesus?

[Ali Imran]

The Bible is well preserved and reliable but you argue as though you are a learned person. You only have a few scholars that would support your case

I showed you some verses from your Gospels this morning which shows your Gospel is not reliable because there are embellishments, to put it politely.

Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, “Teacher, don’t you care if we drown?” - Mark 4:38

But Jesus was sleeping. The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!” - Matthew 8:25

What was your respond? You said you're not interested.

And now, you want to tell me your Gospels are reliable?

[cheekopekman]

Tomorrow June 1 is Holy Communion Sunday lah! Let's prepare our hearts to come to the Lord's Supper lah!

[pinkpanther]

Did Jesus preach the Gospel according to Mark? Or preach the Gospel according to Matthew? The answer is no. So, do you have the words of Jesus, ie the Injeel? No.

How come you still bringing the same argument when you were already told that you don't have the words of Jesus?

Matthew was a disciple leh and Mark wrote the gospels based on eyewitness accounts on the teachings and life of Jesus...

If you don have the words of Jesus, why did the Quran ask you to believe in the injil, a ghost book that never existed...why in the article of faith are you required to believe in the injil if you have never read....the islamic dilemma continues 

[pinkpanther]

I showed you some verses from your Gospels this morning which shows your Gospel is not reliable because there are embellishments, to put it politely.

Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, “Teacher, don’t you care if we drown?” - Mark 4:38

But Jesus was sleeping. The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!” - Matthew 8:25

What was your respond? You said you're not interested.

And now, you want to tell me your Gospels are reliable?

My respond was it was 2 accounts written in different times and different authors... eyewitness account might differ from what the disciple witnesses.

When you bring in Wallace, he will destroy you.

Detective Wallace’s conclusion after reading the Gospel accounts — AS AN ATHEIST— is that the eyewitness testimonies of the disciples are reliable. He put his biases against the supernatural aside, and he concluded that what happened to Jesus was that he really resurrected. Wallace then realized Christianity is true, and he’s now a believer.

He notes that all inquiries and examinations of the truth have unique deficiencies and there is no perfect investigation, so we must draw on reasonable inferences.

Since the Christian worldview is based on eyewitness testimonies, skeptics focus their attacks on their reliability. This is where Christian case makers need to reveal the strength of our case (as listed above). Christians have good reasons to trust that the Gospel account are reliable.

[Ali Imran]

Matthew was a disciple leh and Mark wrote the gospels based on eyewitness accounts on the teachings and life of Jesus...

If you don have the words of Jesus, why did the Quran ask you to believe in the injil, a ghost book that never existed...why in the article of faith are you required to believe in the injil if you have never read....the islamic dilemma continues 

The creed says to believe the Injeel is a revelation from God, given to a mighty messenger of God, the son of Mary, upon whom be peace. 

The dilemma only exists in your head.

[Ali Imran]

My respond was it was 2 accounts written in different times and different authors... eyewitness account might differ from what the disciple witnesses.

When you bring in Wallace, he will destroy you.

Detective Wallace’s conclusion after reading the Gospel accounts — AS AN ATHEIST— is that the eyewitness testimonies of the disciples are reliable. He put his biases against the supernatural aside, and he concluded that what happened to Jesus was that he really resurrected. Wallace then realized Christianity is true, and he’s now a believer.

He notes that all inquiries and examinations of the truth have unique deficiencies and there is no perfect investigation, so we must draw on reasonable inferences.

Since the Christian worldview is based on eyewitness testimonies, skeptics focus their attacks on their reliability. This is where Christian case makers need to reveal the strength of our case (as listed above). Christians have good reasons to trust that the Gospel account are reliable.

I quoted Wallace, who said you should not trust the NT 100%. But he also said you should not be a total skeptic.

[pinkpanther]

The creed says to believe the Injeel is a revelation from God, given to a mighty messenger of God, the son of Mary, upon whom be peace. 

The dilemma only exists in your head.

 So all the troubles for nothing? Then Allah is making a joke out of Jesus? Born from virgin, performed miracles, given the title " word of God" the messiah but failed to relay the revelations to the people...

I think you are attributing some form of injustice to God and Jesus

[pinkpanther]

I quoted Wallace, who said you should not trust the NT 100%. But he also said you should not be a total skeptic.

Don pick and choose because what he said will also bury you...the ironic part is he believes Christianity is the truth and he became a christian

[Ali Imran]

 So all the troubles for nothing? Then Allah is making a joke out of Jesus? Born from virgin, performed miracles, given the title " word of God" the messiah but failed to relay the revelations to the people...

I think you are attributing some form of injustice to God and Jesus

No, Jesus doesn't have that "word of God" title in the Quran.

And you're also wrong to say he failed to relay the revelations given to him, ie the Injeel, to the people. For a fact, Jesus did relayed it to the people.

[Ali Imran]

Don pick and choose because what he said will also bury you...the ironic part is he believes Christianity is the truth and he became a christian

Yes, he is a Christian and that is why I quoted him. He said the NT is not 100% reliable. The problem is, he is not able to confirm the percentage of reliability. Which verses are reliable and which are not?

If you are told that the parachute is not 100% reliable and you don't know the percentage of reliability, would you take the plunge?

[pinkpanther]

No, Jesus doesn't have that "word of God" title in the Quran.

And you're also wrong to say he failed to relay the revelations given to him, ie the Injeel, to the people. For a fact, Jesus did relayed it to the people.

Jesus is Kalimatullah..the word of God in the Quran..the word of God fails to get the words of God recorded?

Allah said the Injil was written down and it is with us..
You want to go to the Quran?

[Ali Imran]

Jesus is Kalimatullah..the word of God in the Quran..the word of God fails to get the words of God recorded?

Allah said the Injil was written down and it is with us..
You want to go to the Quran?

No, you got it wrong. The Quran says "word from God", not "word of God". 

Yes, the Injeel was written down, though not immediately. I already said he did relay the message given to him to relay it to the people. 

That's why you have the red-letter Bible. But are they reliable? That's the question.

[pinkpanther]

Yes, he is a Christian and that is why I quoted him. He said the NT is not 100% reliable. The problem is, he is not able to confirm the percentage of reliability. Which verses are reliable and which are not?

If you are told that the parachute is not 100% reliable and you don't know the percentage of reliability, would you take the plunge?

 Even copies of manuscripts don turn out 100% consistent....so that's a false equivalent..

Next time be careful who you use as an argument..I'm humble and I don intend to mock you further

[pinkpanther]

No, you got it wrong. The Quran says "word from God", not "word of God". 

Yes, the Injeel was written down, though not immediately. I already said he did relay the message given to him to relay it to the people. 

That's why you have the red-letter Bible. But are they reliable? That's the question.

In Islamic tradition, Jesus (Isa in Arabic) is referred to as "Kalimatullah," which translates to "Word of God".