[Ali Imran]

Every moslems say the same thing that the Quran is well preserved and it is rather suspicious ...are you becoming a bot?

Are you saying every Muslim, over a billion of us, we are all liars or stupid?

[pinkpanther]

That is God telling us that Jesus wasn't crucified. As for Bart Ehrman, the Quran did say that people thought he was crucified, and that includes Bart Ehrman who thinks that Jesus was crucified.

So Bart was misled by Allah to believe that Jesus was crucified?  Allah wills who He wills..

If you don believe what Bart said about the crucifixion..why should I believe in what he has to say about the NT

[Ali Imran]

Mark wrote the Gospel of Mark
Luke wrote the Gospel of Luke
John wrote the Gospel of John
Matthew wrote the Gospel of Matthew

Mark wrote first. 

Matthew copied from Mark. 

Mark wasn't a disciple. Matthew was a disciple. Now, why would Matthew, a disciple, copy from Mark who wasn't a disciple?

[pinkpanther]

Are you saying every Muslim, over a billion of us, we are all liars or stupid?

I never say that...it is called memorise and recite which you were taught to learn since young..
So every moslem propagate the same thing the same message.. there is no need for critical thinking and discussion

[Ali Imran]

So Bart was misled by Allah to believe that Jesus was crucified?  Allah wills who He wills..

That would be correct if it is Allah who tells people that Jesus was crucified when he actually wasn't.

But no, that is not the case. The Jews were the ones who went around boasting to people that they have killed the Messiah. Allah informs us that Jesus wasn't crucified.

[Ali Imran]

I never say that...it is called memorise and recite which you were taught to learn since young..
So every moslem propagate the same thing the same message.. there is no need for critical thinking and opinions.

The memorization started from the very beginning. The Prophet would receive revelation from Gabriel and recite the verses to the companions, who would commit them to memory. 

That process is still ongoing today. That alone is a miracle, if you think about it.

[pinkpanther]

Mark wrote first. 

Matthew copied from Mark. 

Mark wasn't a disciple. Matthew was a disciple. Now, why would Matthew, a disciple, copy from Mark who wasn't a disciple?

I do not have the answer..it might be taken to emphasize a point ..it might be an coincidence just like how Allah and Paul shared the same message with literally the same writings

[Ali Imran]

If you don believe what Bart said about the crucifixion..why should I believe in what he has to say about the NT

I believe Bart Ehrman thinks Jesus was crucified. The Quran states that people thought Jesus was crucified.

Bart Ehrman is the leading scholar of the NT today. When it comes to academia, we can use him. When it come to faith, that's a different story.

[pinkpanther]

The memorization started from the very beginning. The Prophet would receive revelation from Gabriel and recite the verses to the companions, who would commit them to memory. 

That process is still ongoing today. That alone is a miracle, if you think about it.

That is why I said that every moslem remember and recite the same propaganda which were probably taught since young.. ..

[pinkpanther]

I believe Bart Ehrman thinks Jesus was crucified. The Quran states that people thought Jesus was crucified.

Bart Ehrman is the leading scholar of the NT today. When it comes to academia, we can use him. When it come to faith, that's a different story.

You believe that Jesus was crucified but the Quran says Jesus is not even on the cross

[Ali Imran]

That is why I said that every moslem remember and recite the same propaganda which were probably taught since young.. ..

Every Muslim recites the same Quran.

So you're saying all Muslims are dumb, all of us don't know that it is, as you said, a propaganda, and you, PinkPanther, knows better than all the Muslims.

[Ali Imran]

You believe that Jesus was crucified but the Quran says Jesus is not even on the cross

No, of course not.

All Muslims believe Jesus wasn't crucified but we know that the people thought it was Jesus who was crucified.

[Ali Imran]

I do not have the answer..it might be taken to emphasize a point ..it might be an coincidence just like how Allah and Paul shared the same message with literally the same writings

Imagine this. Matthew, who was with Jesus and taught by Jesus, copied the writings of Mark, who wasn't with Jesus.

So no, it wasn't the disciple Matthew who wrote that book.

[pinkpanther]

Imagine this. Matthew, who was with Jesus and taught by Jesus, copied the writings of Mark, who wasn't with Jesus.

So no, it wasn't the disciple Matthew who wrote that book.

I don know which parts were copied...

[pinkpanther]

No, of course not.

All Muslims believe Jesus wasn't crucified but we know that the people thought it was Jesus who was crucified.

Bart Erhman's conclusion is based on his works not base on Allah's words

[pinkpanther]

Are you saying every Muslim, over a billion of us, we are all liars or stupid?

In football terms, you are considered a diver
Falling and diving to the ground at the slightest touch and appealing to the referee in this case the readers to try to get me send off

Today you put words in my mouth.  .tomorrow you will call me a liar...  but you know I'm OK with your antics..

[Ali Imran]

Bart Erhman's conclusion is based on his works not base on Allah's words

Yes, of course.

Bart Ehrman's position on the crucifixion is exactly what Allah says in the Quran, that people thought it was Jesus who was crucified. So that part of the Quranic verse is correct.

Now, let's go to another part of that Quranic verse, which says that the people who thought Jesus was crucified have no proof but based it on conjecture. While this refers to the people of that time, we can also use it on Bart Ehrman who has taken the same position, ie he believes Jesus was crucified. The Quran says he based it on conjecture. Is that correct? Let's discuss.

[Ali Imran]

In football terms, you are considered a diver
Falling and diving to the ground at the slightest touch and appealing to the referee in this case the readers to try to get me send off

Today you put words in my mouth.  .tomorrow you will call me a liar...  but you know I'm OK with your antics..

That is not true but I'm not interested in your assessment of my integrity.

[Ali Imran]

A conjecture means making a conclusion based on skimpy information.

[pinkpanther]

Yes, of course.

Bart Ehrman's position on the crucifixion is exactly what Allah says in the Quran, that people thought it was Jesus who was crucified. So that part of the Quranic verse is correct.

Now, let's go to another part of that Quranic verse, which says that the people who thought Jesus was crucified have no proof but based it on conjecture. While this refers to the people of that time, we can also use it on Bart Ehrman who has taken the same position, ie he believes Jesus was crucified. The Quran says he based it on conjecture. Is that correct? Let's discuss.

it is a simple statement.. let's not try to complicate matters .His stand is Jesus is crucified and the Quran says Jesus is not...that is direct contradiction ...you are simply applying paper over cracks 

[pinkpanther]

That is not true but I'm not interested in your assessment of my integrity.

We have VAR

[Ali Imran]

it is a simple statement.. let's not try to complicate matters .His stand is Jesus is crucified and the Quran says Jesus is not...that is direct contradiction ...you are simply applying paper over cracks 

The part where Allah says it wasn't Jesus who was crucified is faith-based.

What I want to show you is how the Quran is correct, academically. We are using Bart Ehrman as our sample. So, the first part of the Quran verse is correct, that people thought it was Jesus who was crucified and Bart Ehrman thinks it was Jesus who was crucified.

What I want to do now is go to the second part. Allah says those who think that it was Jesus who was crucified have no proof. They only have conjecture. Let's take Bart Ehrman again. Does he have any evidence to back his claim that it was Jesus who was crucified? No, he doesn't. His claim is based on conjecture, exactly as what the Quran says.

[pinkpanther]

The part where Allah says it wasn't Jesus who was crucified is faith-based.

What I want to show you is how the Quran is correct, academically. We are using Bart Ehrman as our sample. So, the first part of the Quran verse is correct, that people thought it was Jesus who was crucified and Bart Ehrman thinks it was Jesus who was crucified.

What I want to do now is go to the second part. Allah says those who think that it was Jesus who was crucified have no proof. They only have conjecture. Let's take Bart Ehrman again. Does he have any evidence to back his claim that it was Jesus who was crucified? No, he doesn't. His claim is based on conjecture, exactly as what the Quran says.

Does Allah have evidence to suggest that Jesus was not crucified? He only provides a verse, and you consider that sufficient detail...

The evidence is in our scriptures, which were revealed 700 years before the Quran, and are fully detailed. The Quran presents a hypothesis that people believed Jesus was crucified, but it does not provide concrete proof...just a suggestion. 

Why would people think Jesus wasn’t crucified unless they weren’t present?it’s unlikely they could be mistaken or fooled. .,.Unlike watching a soccer game from afar, they would have witness the crucifixion up close and clear.

[Ali Imran]

Does Allah have evidence to suggest that Jesus was not crucified? He only provides a verse, and you consider that sufficient detail...

The evidence is in our scriptures, which were revealed 700 years before the Quran, and are fully detailed. The Quran presents a hypothesis that people believed Jesus was crucified, but it does not provide concrete proof...just a suggestion. 

Why would people think Jesus wasn’t crucified unless they weren’t present?it’s unlikely they could be mistaken or fooled. .,.Unlike watching a soccer game from afar, they would have witness the crucifixion up close and clear.

What evidence do you think Bart Ehrman has for saying Jesus was crucified? At best, it would be the Gospels. And Bart Ehrman already said the Gospels in the NT are not historically reliable.

So there, as you can see, Bart Ehrman's claim that Jesus was crucified is based on conjecture, exactly as the Quran says. 

Two parts of that verse we have looked into are correct.

[Ali Imran]

Why would people think Jesus wasn’t crucified unless they weren’t present?it’s unlikely they could be mistaken or fooled. .,.Unlike watching a soccer game from afar, they would have witness the crucifixion up close and clear.

Who knew Jesus in Jerusalem? Hardly anybody knew him there. That means the common folks in Jerusalem don't know what Jesus looks like. So when they saw a man the Romans said was Jesus who was crucified, they all don't know any better. Even the Roman soldiers who arrested him didn't know what Jesus looks like. They needed a man (I think it was Judas) to point Jesus out to them.

Do you know that?

[pinkpanther]

If you don wear the Hijab, you will be punished..maybe even die..and other people also suffered and die because they felt a sense of injustice..

we know it is hard to follow God's laws that is why Christianity does not come out with some compulsory laws because we know what repercussions it will have on the society 

[Ali Imran]

If you don wear the Hijab, you will be punished..maybe even die..and other people also suffered and die because they felt a sense of injustice..

we know it is hard to follow God's laws that is why Christianity does not come out with some compulsory laws because we know what repercussions it will have on the society 

Don't be gullible.

[pinkpanther]

Who knew Jesus in Jerusalem? Hardly anybody knew him there. That means the common folks in Jerusalem don't know what Jesus looks like. So when they saw a man the Romans said was Jesus who was crucified, they all don't know any better. Even the Roman soldiers who arrested him didn't know what Jesus looks like. They needed a man (I think it was Judas) to point Jesus out to them.

Do you know that?

Where in the Quran mention Judas by name?
If you can't even get the name right..how âm I going to trust the Quran?

[Ali Imran]

Where in the Quran mention Judas by name?
If you can't even get the name right..how âm I going to trust the Quran?

I think you are not following my argument and you just keep mocking.

Let me try slowly. Do you know that Jesus wasn't known in Jerusalem? The common folks in Jerusalem only heard of him. They don't know what he looks like. 

Do you know that?

[Lukongsimi]

Good job pink
We can relax liao