[Oyk]

I'm only interested in religious discussions about God, the hereafter, the scriptures, the angels, and the prophets.

I'm not into this childish ad hominem.

Stop lying Abdul. You called me PIGeon.

[Oyk]

Jesus: IAm
Satan: You are lying!.

Paul: We are saved by grace through faith
Satan: You are lying!

[pinkpanther]

I am sure that having an eternal erection when you are down there is quite embarrassing. So it will be hidden from public view..

Can you quote which verse or Hadith says so...

[pinkpanther]

Not happy ignore him lorh.

He won't go away lah...but he will refrain himself from further comments when he sees an increase in viewership? What a pussy! 

Got balls to mock and taunt the Bible but turn tail and run when he draws a crowd...

[S I M T A N]

Jesus told His disciples, "Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matt 5:20). The Pharisees were the most law-abiding people of Jesus' day, and what Jesus said was basically true, even if it wasn't the literal truth.

That the pharisees were strict adherents of religious laws and were in full compliance with the rules is basically true, as a general statement. However, the other side of the coin - the literal truth - is that they fell short of the glory of God. The problem with the pharisees is that they had God and
their own sets of rules, and they considered themselves righteous when they kept those rules, condemning others who didn't keep them.

The pharisees also had an air of superiority - holding others in contempt among other things. They believed all was right between them and God since they were physical descendants of Abraham. Jesus burst their bubble, saying that one must be a spiritual descendant of Abraham by showing the same obedience to God that Abraham did. His good works and rituals weren't enough to make him right with God. The Bible says Abraham's faith was "reckoned to him as righteousness." (Gal 3; Rom 4) The term 'righteous' means a right standing with God. For people like Abraham, faith plus obedience to God's commands put them in a right standing with God.

As for the pharisees of old and in this day and age, if they want to change the trajectory of their earthly life and eternal destiny, they'll need to set themselves right with God through faith. If keeping the law could make people right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.

[S I M T A N]

While seemingly writing to no one in particular, I wonder if Bro Sim was in fact rebuking Abdul.

I remember Abdul mocking LKSM...you know!  you're Christian?  But you don't even obey Jesus!  pbuh!  I am a Moslem and I obey Jesus much more than you!  (Shame on you!) pbuh! How do you pray?  I recite the Quran!  In Arabic!  I am on fours, with my head touching the floor!  Just like Jesus! pbuh!

I pray five taims a day!  I do zakat.  I did the Haj!

And on and on, Abdul mocked us.  Standing before God, Abdul would be telling Him that unlike us, he had done this, that and the other in a pharisaical tone.  He is like the Pharisee who compared himself with the tax collector.  While Christians confess their sins, Abdul sings his own praises.  Just like the Pharisee.

I read an engrossing debate on the Pharisees that took place earlier in the day and decided to chip in. Yeah, Abdul does give the impression of being a pharisee at times, with his adherence to laws and rules. Being doctrinaire, he often harps on the Christianly bedrock beliefs which are on a collision course with Islam's core values. For instance, the Quran states that Allah isn't trinity, but the God of the Bible is, known as the Holy Trinity. Saying God has a Son, as the Bible does, is an unpardonable sin known as shirk to Muslim followers. Another bone of contention, as we've been wrangling over ad nauseam, is the faith versus works issue.

[Oyk]

That the pharisees were strict adherents of religious laws and were in full compliance with the rules is basically true, as a general statement. However, the other side of the coin - the literal truth - is that they fell short of the glory of God. The problem with the pharisees is that they had God and
their own sets of rules, and they considered themselves righteous when they kept those rules, condemning others who didn't keep them.

The pharisees also had an air of superiority - holding others in contempt among other things. They believed all was right between them and God since they were physical descendants of Abraham. Jesus burst their bubble, saying that one must be a spiritual descendant of Abraham by showing the same obedience to God that Abraham did. His good works and rituals weren't enough to make him right with God. The Bible says Abraham's faith was "reckoned to him as righteousness." (Gal 3; Rom 4) The term 'righteous' means a right standing with God. For people like Abraham, faith plus obedience to God's commands put them in a right standing with God.

As for the pharisees of old and in this day and age, if they want to change the trajectory of their earthly life and eternal destiny, they'll need to set themselves right with God through faith. If keeping the law could make people right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.

Surpass the Pharisees.
That's what Jesus said. He did not say "...like the Pharisee"

If a righteousness that's "like that of the Pharisee" could enable us to enter the Kingdom of God, then all we need to do is to adhere to the Law and we are good to go.

But Jesus said "surpass", not "like".

It also means that even the Pharisees weren't entering God's Kingdom even though they had "works" and adhered to the Laws.  The Pharisees needed to do better than themselves ie surpass themselves which was by definition not possible. And if the Pharisees could not enter God's Kingdom, the rest of the Jews wouldn't stand a chance lorh.

So what went wrong?  What happened?  Why adhering to the Laws like the Pharisees did was still not good enough?  God gave Moses the Ten Commandments, we followed it, obeyed it, and now God says "No man, not good enough, go away! go away" or as Abdul put it earlier, in that mocking and taunting tone of his, we are"unceremoniously" told to get lost.

Hey! was that meant to be a divine joke?

No, it was not a divine joke.  The Pharisees, the Jews who wanted Jesus killed did not understand why He came.  He wasn't their Messiah.  He had no business to be here on Earth!  So, they thought.

Now, with the revelation which Paul received from the Holy Spirt, we know that it was non-negotiable for Jesus to die so that the penalty of Adam's Sin is paid once and for all time, that through one man, Adam, Sin came into the world, and through one Man, Christ, the redemption...the penalty of Sin is paid once and for all time. Unless that is done, the righteousness of a man is like filthy rags.  Unless that is done, nobody can surpass the righteousness of a Pharisee.

The only Person who could surpass it was the One rebuking the Pharisees and teaching the people, but they knew Him not.  Jesus was not born of the seed of a sinful man, Adam.  Jesus was born Sinless, without Adam's Sin and till the hour of His Death, He did not sin.  The blood of goats and sheep was not worthy to pay in exchange for a man Adam.  Only that of a Sinless Man for a man could, and that Man was our Lord Jesus.  Abdul still sacrifices an animal annually wor.  

Jesus is our role model, and in His Life, we read of no sexual perversion or lust, of going into battle and slaughtering people, no 911, only riding a donkey around town, not a warhorse, of no greed for worldly possessions (Satan's temptation in the wilderness reminds...), looting the enemies' possessions, or selling their women and chewren for money....

God did not tempt us with promises of women and riches in His Kingdom.  All we are told is that eyes hath not seen, neither hath ears heard the things which God hath prepared for them that loveth Him.  If the righteousness of Christ surpassed that of the Pharisees, the things which God hath prepared for us would surely surpass that offered by the god of this world.  Hallelujah!

[pinkpanther]

This explains why, according to one Muslim historian, Muhammad took full responsibility for reciting Satan’s verses:

That evening Gabriel came to him and reviewed the surah with him, and when he reached the two phrases which Satan had cast upon his tongue he said, "I did not bring you these two." Then the Messenger of God said, "I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to him words which He has not spoken." (The History of al-Tabari –Muhammad at Mecca, translated and annotated by W. Montgomery Watt and M. V. McDonald [State University of New York Press (SUNY), Albany, 1988], Volume VI, p. 111; bold and italic emphasis ours)(1)

[pinkpanther]

Of the jinn and of mankind) He says: Satan whispers in the hearts of the jinn just as he whispers in the hearts of mankind. The last two surahs were revealed about Labid Ibn al-A'sam, the Jew, who used black magic on the Prophet (pbuh) and when the Prophet (pbuh) read these two surahs on Labid's BLACK MAGIC, Allah relieved him from it and it was as if he was untied from his fetters'. (Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs, Q. 114:6; source: bold and capital emphasis ours)

The Holy Bible says that God’s true servants (including his emissaries) cannot come under the control of Satan such as sorcery or black magic since Yahweh protects them:

"There is no sorcery against Jacob, no divination against Israel. It will now be said of Jacob and of Israel, ‘See what God has done!’" Numbers 23:23

"The seventy-two returned with joy and said, ‘Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.’ He replied, ‘I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.’" Luke 10:17-20

This in itself sufficiently proves that Muhammad wasn’t a prophet of the true God and exposes the lie of the Quran that Moses was affected by the magic of the Egyptian sorcerers.

In fact, the Quran itself says that Satan will not be able to harm any of Allah’s righteous slaves:

O you who believe! take care of your souls; he who errs cannot hurt you WHEN YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT WAY; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will inform you of what you did. S. 5:105 Shakir

[pinkpanther]

Muh fell victim to black magic for almost a year!

Why didn’t Allah prevent Muhammad from being controlled by magic if the Quran is correct that Satan will not affect those that are righteous before Allah?

Moreover, what was Muhammad actually doing during the entire year that he thought he was sleeping with his wives? After all, for him to believe he was really having sex implies that he was pleasuring himself in some manner otherwise how could he think that he was actually engaging in intercourse? Isn’t this rather humiliating?

And why would Allah humiliate his prophet in such a way, allowing him to think he was having sex when he really wasn’t, thereby shaming him in front of the Muslims and unbelievers?

Moreover, why would Allah allow Muhammad’s wives to go on without having sex with their husband for nearly a year? What kind of god is this that would actually permit a man to neglect his marital duties with his spouses when he could have simply healed him from the very start?

Do Muslims like Jalal really want non-Muslims to believe that for an entire year Muhammad wasn’t receiving "revelations" when he was under this state? Can Jalal (or any other Muslim) provide a conclusive statement from the Islamic texts which say that he wasn’t being inspired during this period of time that Satan had him under his control?

Wouldn’t this imply that Satan is more powerful than Allah seeing that he was able to bewitch Muhammad for nearly a year even though the Quran says that he wouldn’t be able to harm Allah’s righteous servants?

Or should we assume that Muhammad wasn’t righteous enough and was in fact a deviator, which explains why Allah would allow him to be so humiliated by the devil?

[Ali Imran]

This explains why, according to one Muslim historian, Muhammad took full responsibility for reciting Satan’s verses:

That evening Gabriel came to him and reviewed the surah with him, and when he reached the two phrases which Satan had cast upon his tongue he said, "I did not bring you these two." Then the Messenger of God said, "I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to him words which He has not spoken." (The History of al-Tabari –Muhammad at Mecca, translated and annotated by W. Montgomery Watt and M. V. McDonald [State University of New York Press (SUNY), Albany, 1988], Volume VI, p. 111; bold and italic emphasis ours)(1)

The man who spread lies about the Quran yesterday is back.

[pinkpanther]

The man who spread lies about the Quran yesterday is back.

I didn't spread lies lah...Don anyhow say...if there are any words that might be misleading or interpreted wrongly...I would like to claim ignorance 

[Ali Imran]

I didn't spread lies lah...Don anyhow say...if there are any words that might be misleading or interpreted wrongly...I would like to claim ignorance 

Yes you did.

You cut short the Quran verse and then inserted your own words albeit in parenthesis which is a complete lie.

Surah 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …"

[pinkpanther]

Yes you did.

You cut short the Quran verse and then inserted your own words albeit in parenthesis which is a complete lie.

I didn't write that lah...it was from an article lah...are we cool

[Ali Imran]

I didn't write that lah...it was from an article lah...are we cool

So you c/p from somewhere and make it look like your own?

[Ali Imran]

I didn't write that lah...it was from an article lah...are we cool

Please show us where to find this article.

Next time, when you c/p, please quote the source so you don't make it look like your writing.

[pinkpanther]

So you c/p from somewhere and make it look like your own?

I never claim to say it was my own....I am just giving you the gist of my findings...it is up to you to rebuke if you deem it as unfair....

[pinkpanther]

Please show us where to find this article.

Next time, when you c/p, please quote the source so you don't make it look like your writing.

You never ask for the article what...
I reiterated yesterday a few times that it was not from me....haiya!

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/opini...985431007/

[Ali Imran]

You never ask for the article what...
I reiterated yesterday a few times that it was not from me....haiya!

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/opini...985431007/

I always ask you, "Where you got that from?".

Anyhow, you c/p from that author without knowing that it is a lie. And you spread it here. You claim ignorance. Ok fair. I'm glad you're clear now that you cannot just c/p from anywhere without knowing if it is true or not. 

Then this morning, you are at it again. You c/p from dunno where and I bet you are gonna claim ignorance again if I expose it as another lie. Is that how you gonna do things from now on?

Now, back to that article, why did the president of a Christian university who is also a pastor spread lies intentionally about Islam?

[Ali Imran]

If Islam is false, you don't have to create lies to expose it.

The fact that a president of a Christian university had to create lies in order to falsify Islam speaks volumes about the credibility of Islam.

[pinkpanther]

I always ask you, "Where you got that from?".

Anyhow, you c/p from that author without knowing that it is a lie. And you spread it here. You claim ignorance. Ok fair. I'm glad you're clear now that you cannot just c/p from anywhere without knowing if it is true or not. 

Then this morning, you are at it again. You c/p from dunno where and I bet you are gonna claim ignorance again if I expose it as another lie. Is that how you gonna do things from now on?

Now, back to that article, why did the president of a Christian university who is also a pastor spread lies intentionally about Islam?

You said we can discuss anything about your faith....of cos we need to go thru some readings and ask you questions base on our findings..tiok boh  then you call us out for spreading falsehoods.

Haiya...how I know what is in the pastor brain? 

Pls refute the claims abt Muh...because these are no verses...you can only rebuke the authenticity of the writings and the author!

[pinkpanther]

When you attack the Bible verses....these were not from your own but you took it from elsewhere to attack us.....you also double standard lah

[pinkpanther]

If Islam is false, you don't have to create lies to expose it.

The fact that a president of a Christian university had to create lies in order to falsify Islam speaks volumes about the credibility of Islam.

Anyway....it is only his opinions!

[Hope]

If Islam is false, you don't have to create lies to expose it.

The fact that a president of a Christian university had to create lies in order to falsify Islam speaks volumes about the credibility of Islam.

“He it is Who sent His Messenger with the True Guidance and the Religion of Truth that He may make it prevail over every religion. Sufficient is Allah as a witness (to this)”..Quran 48:28

“He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the True Religion that He may make it prevail over all religions, howsoever those who associate others with Allah in His Divinity might detest it”.Quran 9:33


“He it is Who has sent forth the Messenger with the Guidance and the True Religion that He may make it prevail over all religion, however those that associate aught with Allah in His Divinity might dislike this”Quran 61:9

[Oyk]

Anyway....it is only his opinions!

It's also Abdul's opinion that the pastor lied. If I say that Yahweh of the Bible is not the same as Allah of the Quran, Abdul will say I lied.

If I say that Jesus is the Second Person of the Godhead, he will not say I lied. Instead he will say I am spreading lies and that's because he happens to know the Bible. He will instead mock and demand a verse that goes....and Jesus said, "I am God!" 

You should tell Abdul to prove that the pastor lied and to stop saying that peepur lied whenever certain articles or beedios are not to his liking.

[Ali Imran]

You said we can discuss anything about your faith....of cos we need to go thru some readings and ask you questions base on our findings..tiok boh  then you call us out for spreading falsehoods.

Does this look like a question?

Cmon no serious harm was done to your family...it's not even an insult...
It is not like prophet Muhammad ordered to behead and kill all jews at the Siege of Banu Qurayza...that is some massacre!

Your snide remark about our prophet (صلي الله عليه وسلم) was Liked by your two buddies.

[Ali Imran]

When you attack the Bible verses....these were not from your own but you took it from elsewhere to attack us.....you also double standard lah

You mentioned something about Jesus and the Pharisees which is not true because I remember what the Gospels records what Jesus said. I brought it up to you, showed you the verses in the Gospel.

Is that attacking the Bible? Is that attacking you?

[Ali Imran]

Anyway....it is only his opinions!

If it was just another PinkPanther in SgTalk saying a lie about the Quran, its no big deal. This is the president of a Christian university, concocting a lie about the Quran, to make his readers hate the Muslims. He is a hate preacher.

This is a big deal indeed.

[Oyk]

Muh fell victim to black magic for almost a year!

Why didn’t Allah prevent Muhammad from being controlled by magic if the Quran is correct that Satan will not affect those that are righteous before Allah?

Moreover, what was Muhammad actually doing during the entire year that he thought he was sleeping with his wives? After all, for him to believe he was really having sex implies that he was pleasuring himself in some manner otherwise how could he think that he was actually engaging in intercourse? Isn’t this rather humiliating?

And why would Allah humiliate his prophet in such a way, allowing him to think he was having sex when he really wasn’t, thereby shaming him in front of the Muslims and unbelievers?

Moreover, why would Allah allow Muhammad’s wives to go on without having sex with their husband for nearly a year? What kind of god is this that would actually permit a man to neglect his marital duties with his spouses when he could have simply healed him from the very start?

Do Muslims like Jalal really want non-Muslims to believe that for an entire year Muhammad wasn’t receiving "revelations" when he was under this state? Can Jalal (or any other Muslim) provide a conclusive statement from the Islamic texts which say that he wasn’t being inspired during this period of time that Satan had him under his control?

Wouldn’t this imply that Satan is more powerful than Allah seeing that he was able to bewitch Muhammad for nearly a year even though the Quran says that he wouldn’t be able to harm Allah’s righteous servants?

Or should we assume that Muhammad wasn’t righteous enough and was in fact a deviator, which explains why Allah would allow him to be so humiliated by the devil?

Did you write this?

When I was yang, I was curious about demon possession. Coming from a very traditional Chinese (Han) background, I heard many stories about spirits taking over our bodies. A crude Chinese way of putting it would be 鬼上身。

The spirit could impersonate a loved one who had passed away, it's said to be able to tell you your future and some peepur even asked it (them) for blessings.

According to Christianity, Satan and his legions cannot take over your body ie possess you unless you invite them, that is you dabble in the occult, black arts... 

A Christian's body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Demons will not dare to go in. Satan can stay outside and tempt you but cannot possess you and cause you to do a monkey dance with blood gushing out from your nose. 

As I have also read what you posted above, I could not help feeling disgusted. If Christ was masturbating and groaning for a year, or fucking a beer bottle, I would cease being a Christ-ian. 

Abdul is going to say I lied but seriously, why is Islam about erect peenis, 72 bergins for plenty of sex, marriage with underaged girls, lust for prepuberty girls and other peepurs' wives? I am reading all these here but so far no such things were ever recorded about Jesus.

[Ali Imran]

Ok.

I'm quitting this thread.