[luncheonmeat]

That statement is based on your belief. It doesn't hold true for us because we don't share your belief.

If we remove your belief from the equation, we are left with one question. What was the will of God? To hear Jesus's plea and come to his rescue? Or turn a deaf ear to the plea? 

I understand you believe it is the latter.

Like Isaac, Jesus  was his Father's Only  Begotten Son. What was the mission of God for His Only Son-- to redeem Mankind from the wages of sin. 
That was God's Will for him along, even before Creation. God knows everything and knew that man would fall prey to sin and Jesus was sent to Save us. 

For the wages of sin is death, not forgiveness and write-offs as per Islam ideology. If there isn't a price for sin, why does God's law as written in both the Torah and Koran call for the stoning of adulterers. Couldn't Islam just forgive them.

[pinkpanther]

I'm not denying that the law for the chosen people is different from our law because it is different.

Don't confused the two, the religion brought by Moses and the religion brought by Muhammad. There is more to say on this topic but I will leave it at that.

But as far as the Arabic term Muslim goes, it means submission to the will of God, which is the basic foundation of the true religion from God, starting from Adam. That foundation never changed, even as the religion changed.

Yes..I submit to Jesus but it doesn't make me muslim
Jesus tells us, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me” (Luke 9:23).

[pinkpanther]

If Allah needs to guide the children of Israel...there is no need to send Jesus...just send a normal man like muh will do!

Jesus doesn't need to perform miracles....there is no need for all of that.
Just send in muh will do!  muh can single handedly fight all the Romans 
Just like he beat the shit out of Satan!

[Ali Imran]

Like Isaac, Jesus  was his Father's Only  Begotten Son. What was the mission of God for His Only Son-- to redeem Mankind from the wages of sin. 
That was God's Will for him along, even before Creation. God knows everything and knew that man would fall prey to sin and Jesus was sent to Save us. 

For the wages of sin is death, not forgiveness and write-offs as per Islam ideology. If there isn't a price for sin, why does God's law as written in both the Torah and Koran call for the stoning of adulterers. Couldn't Islam just forgive them.

When I read Ezekiel 18, I see exactly that, forgiveness and write-offs.

[Oyk]

Buddhism don’t deny or accept there is a God

They believe in the heaven realm, and in not just one god but a countless number of gods.  In Buddhist teachings, we can become gods, but that does not mean we will remain as gods forever.  We can "drop" and be reborn as a man again, or worse, an animal.  The ultimate goal is to become a Buddha which is higher than being a god, when we will cease to be reborn ie enter nirvana.  And there are many Buddhas.

Buddhism does not tell us what nirvana is like, it just says that we are enlightened, whatever that might be, and we will never be reborn again..In what form then do we exist?  Or do we even exist?  Or we just vanish into thin air? I don't know. But when there's 72 begins to be had, I don't see Ali becoming a Buddhist anytime soon.

The philosophy of Buddhism is very good but its "theology" sucks as far as I am concerned.  I place God above everything, they say even a human being can be reborn as a god but this god is below Buddha.  Islam says that Jesus is only a prophet who's lower than Muh.  Both religions I reject.  In truth, both Siddhartha and Muh need Jesus. I am quoting the Bible...

For all (all including Sid and Muh) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God....there is salvation in no other name....

[pinkpanther]

Jew is who follows monotheistic religion so as followers of Islam.
If Jesus was a Jew he was monotheistic. How can a Monotheistic Jew be a saviour of Christianity which was created by European?

You have problem accepting Muhammad as he came 600 years after Jesus. You have no problem accepting Abraham,David,Solomon, Moses who came few centuries before Jesus?

Nope...they never claim that they are Muslim...Don angkat them!
And Jesus came before them!

[Hope]

Jesus would have known how painful a death it was.  He was a man at that point.  God cannot die.  He had to take on the form of a sinless man to die for our sins.

It's terrible, this Death...for Sin.

As God, He had to let the man Jesus go through it.  That's the beautiful thing, God's wisdom, how He defeated Satan whom you are following in your way of twisting and turning and lying.

I guess you don't understand because you are spiritually blind.

Quran 4:157] And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah .” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.


Quran 4:171] O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, “Three”; desist – it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient

[pinkpanther]

They believe in the heaven realm, and in not just one god but a countless number of gods.  In Buddhist teachings, we can become gods, but that does not mean we will remain as gods forever.  We can "drop" and be reborn as a man again, or worse, an animal.  The ultimate goal is to become a Buddha which is higher than being a god, when we will cease to be reborn ie enter nirvana.  And there are many Buddhas.

Buddhism does not tell us what nirvana is like, it just says that we are enlightened, whatever that might be, and we will never be reborn again..In what form then do we exist?  Or do we even exist?  Or we just vanish into thin air? I don't know. But when there's 72 begins to be had, I don't see Ali becoming a Buddhist anytime soon.

The philosophy of Buddhism is very good but its "theology" sucks as far as I am concerned.  I place God above everything, they say even a human being can be reborn as a god but this god is below Buddha.  Islam says that Jesus is only a prophet who's lower than Muh.  Both religions I reject.  In truth, both Siddhartha and Muh need Jesus. I am quoting the Bible...

For all (all including Sid and Muh) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God....there is salvation in no other name....

Yup, they all fall short and need Jesus to redeem them!

[Ali Imran]

Yes..I submit to Jesus but it doesn't make me muslim

That makes you a Muslim in your paradigm. I'm just giving you the etymology of the term aslam, which means to submit.

[Hope]

Nope...they never claim that they are Muslim...Don angkat them!
And Jesus came before them!

Before them?
Before Noah?
Before Abraham?
Before Moses?

[pinkpanther]

That makes you a Muslim in your paradigm. I'm just giving you the etymology of the term aslam, which means to submit.

Poor attempt!
A Muslim is a believer in the religion of Islam

[pinkpanther]

Before them?
Before Noah?
Before Abraham?
Before Moses?

Before Abraham Was, I Am

Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

John attested to it! You doubt jesus and believe in the Quran which is 600yrs later without any eyes witnesses?

[cheekopekman]

If you tell those ah peks and aunties in kopitiam that the creator is Christian or Muslim...they will throw kopi ! who am I to say what they believe is wrong tiok boh!

I believe what I believe..they believe what they believe....they exercise their own free will

Many Christians became martyrs and died for Jesus Christ lah!  People refused to believe them and killed them lah!

[Hope]

They believe in the heaven realm, and in not just one god but a countless number of gods.  In Buddhist teachings, we can become gods, but that does not mean we will remain as gods forever.  We can "drop" and be reborn as a man again, or worse, an animal.  The ultimate goal is to become a Buddha which is higher than being a god, when we will cease to be reborn ie enter nirvana.  And there are many Buddhas.

Buddhism does not tell us what nirvana is like, it just says that we are enlightened, whatever that might be, and we will never be reborn again..In what form then do we exist?  Or do we even exist?  Or we just vanish into thin air? I don't know. But when there's 72 begins to be had, I don't see Ali becoming a Buddhist anytime soon.

The philosophy of Buddhism is very good but its "theology" sucks as far as I am concerned.  I place God above everything, they say even a human being can be reborn as a god but this god is below Buddha.  Islam says that Jesus is only a prophet who's lower than Muh.  Both religions I reject.  In truth, both Siddhartha and Muh need Jesus. I am quoting the Bible...

For all (all including Sid and Muh) have sinned and fall short of the glory of God....there is salvation in no other name....

We don’t need Jesus redeem our sins.

We have the creator of the universe.In Arabic he is called Allah.

[Hope]

Before Abraham Was, I Am

Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

John attested to it! You doubt jesus and believe in the Quran which is 600yrs later without any eyes witnesses?

Where was he during flood?

[pinkpanther]

Where was he during flood?

I don know! Where is Allah now?

[pinkpanther]

We don’t need Jesus redeem our sins.

We have the creator of the universe.In Arabic he is called Allah.

To understand Allah and His words...we need to learn Arabic to understand the truest meaning!
Jesus is not for one nation, not one race and certainly not one language!

[luncheonmeat]

When I read Ezekiel 18, I see exactly that, forgiveness and write-offs.

So why did God decree death for adulterers, shouldn't they be given a chance to repent as well. 

In Christianity, forgiveness does not equal write-offs, as such the price of sin has already been paid by Jesus. The verses in Ezekial must be read with that in mind ie we will not die if we renounce sin, as Jesus, who existed even before Creation, would atone for our folly.

[Oyk]

Quran 4:157] And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah .” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.


Quran 4:171] O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, “Three”; desist – it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient

The Word of God says that Jesus died for our sin.

Whose word is it, that says that Jesus did not die?  Allah?  Or Muh?  Or did someone write it and just used Muh's name? 

To me, whatever is not in the Bible is not from God.  It's the Christian's belief.  We only believe the Bible.   So when you quote the Quran, my thoughts are why do you quote from a book that writes the opposite of what the Bible says, and then when it can't answer questions, you have to cherrypick from the Bible?  To make matters worse, your Quran has so many grammatical errors that it can hardly be from the mouth of God.

[Hope]

If Allah needs to guide the children of Israel...there is no need to send Jesus...just send a normal man like muh will do!

Jesus doesn't need to perform miracles....there is no need for all of that.
Just send in muh will do!  muh can single handedly fight all the Romans 
Just like he beat the shit out of Satan!

Allah didn’t send only Jesus to Israelites.Many more prophets.Some of them were killed by Israelites.
Even Moses, David, Solomon also performed miracles.NOT ONLY JESUS.

Muhammad is not from tribe of Israelite. He is Arab. His birthplace  is over 1500 Km away from Jerusalem.So Allah chose Mary to deliver his last Israelites prophet Jesus.

[Oyk]

To understand Allah and His words...we need to learn Arabic to understand the truest meaning!
Jesus is not for one nation, not one race and certainly not one language!

If we follow the Islamic way, Christians have to memorize the OT in Hebrew and NT in Greek and some parts of the Bible in Aramic even, and then recite it.  To be able to do that, we would require a supernatural power.  I believe Moslems who memorized the Quran didn't do it using human ability.  Of course, Ali Hope will say that Allah gave them the power to memroize the Quran...

[pinkpanther]

So why did God decree death for adulterers, shouldn't they be given a chance to repent as well. 

In Christianity, forgiveness does not equal write-offs, as such the price of sin has already been paid by Jesus. The verses in Ezekial must be read with that in mind ie we will not die if we renounce sin, as Jesus, who existed even before Creation, would atone for our folly.

Yes ...that is Jesus's purpose! Not come down to wage wars, force people to take up his religion, take as many wives, enjoy wine and perfume, take advantage of female captives! 

The real treasure is up in heaven....certainly not the 72houris and a ever lasting erection!

[Hope]

The Word of God says that Jesus died for our sin.

Whose word is it, that says that Jesus did not die?  Allah?  Or Muh?  Or did someone write it and just used Muh's name? 

To me, whatever is not in the Bible is not from God.  It's the Christian's belief.  We only believe the Bible.   So when you quote the Quran, my thoughts are why do you quote from a book that writes the opposite of what the Bible says, and then when it can't answer questions, you have to cherrypick from the Bible?  To make matters worse, your Quran has so many grammatical errors that it can hardly be from the mouth of God.

It is from Quran. No human authors involved.

Jesus was sent to Israelites ,not for Indian or Malay or Chinese and other races,tribes.

Since we consider him as a prophet,Messiah.We share with you what we believe.

[Ali Imran]

So why did God decree death for adulterers, shouldn't they be given a chance to repent as well. 

In Christianity, forgiveness does not equal write-offs, as such the price of sin has already been paid by Jesus. The verses in Ezekial must be read with that in mind ie we will not die if we renounce sin, as Jesus, who existed even before Creation, would atone for our folly.

Of course the adulterers should be given a chance to repent and then it is up to the judge to execute the penal law or not.

Jesus paid for the sins of mankind is a new idea that came about after Jesus. That means, the teachings in Ezekiel were read as it is for more than a thousand years without any of that you suggested in mind.

Renounce sin? Is that all that is required for one to get the golden ticket?

[pinkpanther]

If we follow the Islamic way, Christians have to memorize the OT in Hebrew and NT in Greek and some parts of the Bible in Aramic even, and then recite it.  To be able to do that, we would require a supernatural power.  I believe Moslems who memorized the Quran didn't do it using human ability.  Of course, Ali Hope will say that Allah gave them the power to memroize the Quran...

A parrot can also memorise the quran far better than a imam...can we give it some special privileges?  you can memorise by hard but it does not equate to knowledge!

[Hope]

To understand Allah and His words...we need to learn Arabic to understand the truest meaning!
Jesus is not for one nation, not one race and certainly not one language!

Jesus is Israelite who came to teach children of Isreal (Jacob/yaqoob)

Did you learn aramaic to understand the original bible?
Or did you learn at least Greek?
How did you understand the bible ?

[Oyk]

We don’t need Jesus redeem our sins.

We have the creator of the universe.In Arabic he is called Allah.

If you wish to claim that Allah is the creator, I cannot stop you any more than I can stop a child from saying that it was the spaghetti monster which created Jupiter and Venus.

But I know that it was God who created the world, including Man, and He sent Jesus to die for us.    I need Jesus.  You don't?  You have Allah?  Noted.  

[Hope]

So why did God decree death for adulterers, shouldn't they be given a chance to repent as well. 

In Christianity, forgiveness does not equal write-offs, as such the price of sin has already been paid by Jesus. The verses in Ezekial must be read with that in mind ie we will not die if we renounce sin, as Jesus, who existed even before Creation, would atone for our folly.

God decree punishment in this world to stop others doing it.

As per your logic can  we forgive our minister?give him a second chance?

[Ali Imran]

If we follow the Islamic way, Christians have to memorize the OT in Hebrew and NT in Greek and some parts of the Bible in Aramic even, and then recite it.  To be able to do that, we would require a supernatural power.  I believe Moslems who memorized the Quran didn't do it using human ability.  Of course, Ali Hope will say that Allah gave them the power to memroize the Quran...

Most of the memorizers (hafiz) of the Quran today graduated from school before they turn 16. So, it doesn't take a super-human effort to memorize the entire Quran because kids can do it. But yes, it takes a lot of dedication. I wish to talk more about this because they are proof the Quran is preserved. 

No, Christianity doesn't have anything similar to that particular culture of Islam. You guys cannot even agree on what is the Bible and the number of books that should be in it.

[Oyk]

It is from Quran. No human authors involved.

Jesus was sent to Israelites ,not for Indian or Malay or Chinese and other races,tribes.

Since we consider him as a prophet,Messiah.We share with you what we believe.

Who wrote the Quran?