[pinkpanther]

Whether "like" or "as", it was added.

The English translator added it because, being a Christian, he would want the verse to suit his faith.

I will make you "as" God...that is a misinterpretation...how is it likely to suit Christian faith

[Ali Imran]

Not literally sitting on the throne lah...as the king of jews ..that's how I interpret lah

How would Mary understand it when Gabriel told her about God's plan for her son?

Do you think she would think, "Oh.. my son will be God" or something like that?

[Ali Imran]

I will make you "as" God...that is a misinterpretation...how is it likely to suit Christian faith

I would not call that a misinterpretation. I would call it an interpolation, for easy reading, to make sure the readers know that Moses is not God.

But when it comes to Jesus, because of the interpreter's faith, they didn't make a similar interpolation.

[pinkpanther]

How would Mary understand it when Gabriel told her about God's plan for her son?

Do you think she would think, "Oh.. my son will be God" or something like that?

Yes, She knew that her son would be divine..
Come on, Jesus born from a virgin comes with an angel delivering messages to her...it has to be something special...

If it is just a normal baby ...you can do away with all these formalities..

[pinkpanther]

I would not call that a misinterpretation. I would call it an interpolation, for easy reading, to make sure the readers know that Moses is not God.

But when it comes to Jesus, because of the interpreter's faith, they didn't make a similar interpolation.

If you read the header of exodus 7..your doubts will be cleared

It reads "God commands Moses and Aaron"

[Ali Imran]

If you read the header of exodus 7..your doubts will be cleared

It reads "God commands Moses and Aaron"

I've no doubt Moses is not God.

You believe Jesus is God because he is referred to as God. My argument is: Moses was referred to as God too.

[pinkpanther]

I've no doubt Moses is not God.

You believe Jesus is God because he is referred to as God. My argument is: Moses was referred to as God too.

That is why you need to read in context..just like the arabic word muhaymin can be quite misleading...your friend interpreted as supreme authority while there are other meanings

[Ali Imran]

That is why you need to read in context..just like the arabic word muhaymin can be quite misleading...your friend interpreted as supreme authority while there are other meanings

You mean I must read it through Christian lens.

[pinkpanther]

You mean I must read it through Christian lens.

Just read it as it is lah ...eventually you will still interpret it the Islamic way no matter what lens you put on

[Ali Imran]

Just read it as it is lah ...eventually you will still interpret it the Islamic way no matter what lens you put on

If I read the Bible as it is, without any lens on, I will not come away thinking Jesus is God, especially after reading John 17.

[pinkpanther]

If I read the Bible as it is, without any lens on, I will not come away thinking Jesus is God, especially after reading John 17.

Don worry, the jehovah witnesses and the mormons shared your beliefs...you can pick either of them..

[cheekopekman]

If I read the Bible as it is, without any lens on, I will not come away thinking Jesus is God, especially after reading John 17.

If you don't have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you, the Bible that you are reading is only a religious book just like your Quran lah!  Only born again Christians have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us lah! The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and guide us into all truths lah!

[S I M T A N]

Yes, the Father appointed Moses as God.

Exodus 7.

I didn't twist anything. I only quoted it exactly as the verse says. God appointed Moses as God.

And your friend says God appointed Jesus as God too, if he wants to be consistent.

"And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh ..." (Exodus 7:1 KJV)

The word "God" has many shades of meaning. God - the perfect and all-powerful Being or Spirit who we worship - is always written with a capital letter without "the." In the aforesaid verse, the "god," in lower case, denotes a person and especially a man who's greatly loved or admired.

For your info, God cannot create another God. God by definition is not a created being. If God tried to create another God, the second "god" would be a creature. The "god" would be dependent, derived, and finite. He simply couldn't qualify for the job description of being God.

The man revered by the multitudes is Moses, no less! God called Moses, the greatest of the Old Testament prophets, to lead the Israelites out of Egyptian bondage to freedom as an independent nation. Hebrews 3:5-6 says, "Moses was faithful in all his house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later; but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house."

While Moses served God, Jesus was declared to be the Son of God with the right to rule over all servants. Jesus said He did not come to abolish the law (Moses's writings; he wrote the first five books of the OT - Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy - which are known as the Torah) but to fulfill it (Matt. 5:17).

In Deut 18:15-19, Moses foretold that God would raise up a Jewish prophet with a special message from God. Anyone who didn't believe this would be judged by God. This passage has been interpreted as referring to Messiah. In it Moses points to a prophet (Jesus) who would be greater than himself, saying, "it is to him you shall listen" (Deut 18:15).

"The Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ" (John 1:17). While Moses set up the moral and social structures that guided the nation, the law could not save anyone from the penalty of their sins, which is death. "By the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin" (Rom 3:20). The revelation that came through Jesus was one in which the sins that the law made known are forgiven, "being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus" (v.24). So, whereas Moses's law brought condemnation, only Christ provided salvation (Rom 8:1-4).

[S I M T A N]

The Father also said the judges are Gods. Do you now have more than 3 Gods?

In John 10:34, Jesus said, "You are gods." He meant this in a derivative sense, not in an absolute sense. Similarly, Jesus was God only in a derivative sense when He was a man on earth. However, this misunderstands the nature of the argument. Jesus's argument in this verse is a fortiori; in that if human judges can be called gods (in Psalms 82) as they stand in the place of God in a derivative sense, how much more can the Son of God be called God who is God in an absolute sense (John 1:1-2; 8:58; 20:28; Rom 9:5; Heb 1:8).

[S I M T A N]

I have posted this yesterday...why did you ignore the views of Imam Wahidi? Just because he is not a prominent figure?

Imam Wahidi recorded under the Tafsir of verse 5:105:

Ibn 'Abbas said: “The Messenger of Allah sent a letter to the people of Hajar, whose chief was Mundhir ibn Sawa, inviting them to Islam, or to pay the Jizyah if they chose not to embrace Islam. When Mundhir ibn Sawa received the letter, he showed it to the Arabs, Jews, Christians, Sabeans and Magians who were around him.

 They all agreed to pay the Jizyah and disliked embracing Islam. The Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, wrote back to him, saying: 'As for the Arabs, do not accept from them except Islam otherwise they will have nothing but the sword. As for the people of the Book and the Magians, accept the Jizyah from them. When this letter was read to them, the Arabs embraced Islam while the people of the Book and the Magians agreed to pay the Jizyah.

Do you remember that ISIS took Jizya from Christians in Iraq and let them live, but ISIS didn't take Jizya from Yazidis and killed their men and enslaved their women?

Here is the reason:

According to Salafi Islam (and also according to Imam Shafi'i and Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal), Jizya is allowed only for Christians/Jews/Zoroastrians (who are known as the "people of the Book أهل الكتاب" in Islam).
But as far as other non-Muslims (like Atheists, Deists, Hindus, Buddhists etc.) are concerned, then they cannot live even by paying Jizya. They either have to accept Islam, or they should be slaughtered.
Muhammad himself didn't accept Jizya from the polytheists of Arabia but after the revelation of the verse of the sword (i.e. killing all polytheists after 4 months), he forced all of them to accept Islam.
Later, some Muslim jurists like Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Malik said that it was limited only to the polytheists of Arabia, but as far as the polytheists of the non-Arab world are concerned, they could live by paying Jizya.

But other Muslim jurists like Imam Shafii and Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal (and modern-day Salafists) disagree. According to them, non-Arab non-Muslims also don't have any right to live even through paying Jizya. They either have to accept Islam or they should be slaughtered.

This means that if Salafists form an Islamic State today, then they will kill all non-Muslims like Atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. (accept for Jews/Christians/Magians who can stay alive by paying Jizya).

Your scoop takes the guesswork out of trying to understand the mind-set of religious fanatics. Fortunately, outbursts of violence tend to occur only spasmodically even in peacetime. It's fortunate too that the generality of the adherents are moderates, and so people are not unduly concerned.

[pinkpanther]

What SimTan does is just defend and defend the scriptures He tends to park the bus, making any Moslem attack ineffective... His approach is dogmatic..he will wear down his Moslem adversary with his writings, lining up numerous quotes that could overwhelm his foe.. 

Rather than initiating attacks on the Moslem faith, Sim’s strategy is to sit back and defend all day suffocating and wearing down his opponents with his style  .... He'll drag them into extra time and ultimately win on penalties.

[Lukongsimi]

“For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Talks about Jesus is God
☝️

[Ali Imran]

“For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Talks about Jesus is God
☝️

Is Jesus the Father? Is Jesus ever known as Prince of Peace?

Is Jesus the government of Israel?

[Lukongsimi]

Hati pain Liao huh?

☝️

[Lukongsimi]

Why huh ?
Jealous ?
☝️

[Lukongsimi]

Old man always cannot take it when mentioned Jesus is God😂

[Lukongsimi]

The Bible says Jesus is unique in both His person and His purpose. He wasn't just some spiritual individual during His time on earth; He was both God's Son (John 3:16) and God Himself—God in human flesh (1 Timothy 3:16). Yes, He was fully man, but He was also fully God (Colossians 2:9). Jesus claimed to be God.

[Lukongsimi]

In Revelation 5:8, 12-13 and Colossians 2:6-7, we find that Jesus is worshiped in every way that the Bible specifically describes worship of God the Father, with all the same words used (see: Revelation 4:9-11, 5:13; 7:11-12, and Romans 11:33). Jesus is omnipotent (possesses all power):

[Lukongsimi]

Ignatius, the pastor of Antioch who was martyred in about AD 110 and who may have known the apostle John, wrote: “There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord. ...

[Ali Imran]

Hati pain Liao huh?

☝️

No, it doesn't do anything to me. 

I just like correcting your mistakes. You quoted Isaiah and you want to tie that to Jesus. That is a mistake and I've shown you the mistake.

[Lukongsimi]

For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Talks about Jesus is God

Jesus is omnipotent (possesses all power):
Philippians 3:20-21 — ... the Lord Jesus Christ, who will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power which enables him even to subject all things to himself.
Jesus is omniscient (all-knowing):
Colossians 2:2-3 — ... Christ, in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 
Jesus is omnipresent (present everywhere):
Ephesians 1:22-23 — ... the Church, which is his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all. (cf. Colossians 3:11)
Another astonishing passage along these lines is one where Jesus speaks about historical events described as being done by God the Father in the Old Testament. He casually applies them to himself (what might be called “the Divine ‘I’”):
Matthew 23: 34, 37 — Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from town to town. ... O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!
Many attributes that are said to belong only to “God” are applied to Jesus in Scripture. God the Father said, “besides me there is no savior” (Isaiah 43:11; cf. 1 Timothy 4:10). Yet Jesus is called the “savior” of mankind in passages like Luke 2:11 and many others.
God the Father stated, “To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear” (Isaiah 45:23). The same exact description is also applied to Jesus (Philippians 2:10-11).

At every turn in the Bible, only one conclusion is possible, to make sense of all these statements, taken together as a whole: Jesus is God the Son. He is the eternal, all-powerful, all-loving, self-existent Creator God.

[Lukongsimi]

So many proofs that Jesus is God
Who are you to correct us?
U are just a mortal man
Goondoo!
☝️

[Lukongsimi]

A Moslem trying to correct us
lmao!
☝️

[Lukongsimi]

The devil is like a prowling lion waiting for someone to devour
We are sent among the wolves
Be innocent like a dove and wise like a serpent
😊

[Ali Imran]

So many proofs that Jesus is God
Who are you to correct us?
U are just a mortal man
Goondoo!
☝️

You quoted Isaiah 9 and you believe it is talking about your notion of Jesus.

I've shown you the errors. 1 Jesus was never the government of Israel. 2 Jesus is not the everlasting Father. 3 Jesus is not the Prince of Peace.

Argue my 3 points if you can.