[Hope]

No one can determine how old was Rebecca because the Jewish Bible doesn't record it. How the Jewish scholars came up with 3 or 4 years of age? They did some maths based on the information available in the Jewish Bible. 

Prophet Isaac, pbuh, could have married her at 4 years of age but he probably waited till she was sexually mature before consummating the marriage.

Wallahu 'alam.

Even David married an underage as per terms of 21st century.Some of the prophets had concubines.

[Lukongsimi]

Blind leads blind Pua Toh into orh orh Kia see lung Kang.

[S I M T A N]

I am not sure how you tied Jesus to the veracity of the Bible today. The Bible we have today didn't come from Jesus. It wasn't in existence when Jesus was walking on earth. For surely, Jesus didn't give us any assurance that the Bible is reliable.

Christians have been adding and removing stuff from the "authorized" Bible since the beginning. In the first 500 years after Jesus, there were like 30 Gospels from different authors in circulation. A group of men sat down and took some (more than 4) of the Gospels to be canonized. How did they decide which of the 30 to be canonized? And that has changed over time. For example, the Gospel according to Barnabas was in the Bible, as seen in Codex Sinaiticus, a 4th-century Bible. But we don't see that Gospel today. How come? Somebody removed it. Another example is the verse in 1 John 5:7, which was not found in Codex Sinaiticus. It wasn't there at first. The first time a Bible was seen with that verse was a 15th-century Bible. And now, that verse is no longer found in most modern-day Bible. 

Who adds and removes books and verses from the Bible? Do we know why they did that, or more importantly, who were they? What was their motivation for adding or removing stuff from the official Bible? What is their methodology for determining which books to include or exclude? And last question, if the Bible is from God, can humans tamper with it?

I see you're well-prepared to shoot the Bible down in flames. Armed with anti-church materials gathered from the Web and from decades of participating in theological debates, you certainly lack for nothing, having dogged perseverance and the patience of a saint while also having ready-made ammunition to try and demolish the Holy Book and its core beliefs. Sometimes I wonder what your hidden agenda is. You should know by now that getting your Bible-believing nemeses turn away from their beliefs is tantamount to them making you renounce your Islamic faith. Let's not kid ourselves, we're all fundamentalists refusing to budge in inch on our sacredly-held beliefs while continuing to stand our ground no matter what.

If your agenda is to win converts, then I think you lack a good strategy for converting others to your way of thinking. A theological sales pitch that makes relentless fault-finding analyses of others' sacred cows can be likened to a retailer constantly faulting his competitors' products. You've taken this counterproductive route. Our beliefs are dear to our hearts, but not to the disbelievers. Nothing we argue about is sacred to them, and our constant squabbles about doctrinal contradictions and discrepancies are putting many of them off. I think you need a new plan of attack. To make people listen to your sales pitch and like it, the good qualities and features of your product should be made.

If you get your jollies from attacking other's faith, then I'll entertain you with my last hurrah. Regarding the supposedly lost books of the Bible that have been found, the so-called gospels of Philip, Thomas, and Magdalene weren't lost gospels. They were pseudo gospels that the early church rejected as uninspired, spurious writings. The Christian church was acquainted with these documents but intentionally left then out of the Bible because it recognized they weren't divinely inspired. These books do not belong to the Bible as they weren't written by any of the apostles, such as Luke or Mark. Most scholars date these Gnostic gospels to the second and third centuries, long after the time of Christ. These writings contradict authentic texts. Christians are absolutely certain that God who inspired the men to pen the words of the Bible saw to it that none of the inspired writings were lost.

We can debate those issues ad nauseam without reaching an agreement. We'll never agree, so leave it at that. I'd prefer chatting about less prickly things like the battle of the sexes and worship.

[victortan]

Dont need to write so long both of u...

we know islam and chrisitian love to fight and quarrel and give other earthlin trouble both economic and
political..

both quran and bible are just mere story book,

if this 2 religion tomolo disappear there will be instant peace, like instant nescafe,, yummy.

Only buddhism i see are more well behave, but still not vy good boy.

they said by equanimity to their karma and they are free... walau..imagine u rape 1000 woman and u ignore that guilty feeling arise
during meditaiton and u are liberated??? got such a good deal???

better than shopee 7.7 big sale.. or Amazon prime offer.

[victortan]

Again I will ask.

Should I entertain trolls?

sure u can entertain yr prophet by marrying yr 4 yrs old daughter for him to piak piak,, then u will be in heaven,,, yamen...even she is 9 yrs old still vy tight
isnt it????

[victortan]

Even David married an underage as per terms of 21st century.Some of the prophets had concubines.

david or what, they are just name, non existence at all,,, all are story book, both bible and quran..

they can call themselves monkey and donkey and said u all can sleep with yr mother too, and it ia OK. it is holy to do so.

[victortan]

No one can determine how old was Rebecca because the Jewish Bible doesn't record it. How the Jewish scholars came up with 3 or 4 years of age? They did some maths based on the information available in the Jewish Bible. 

Prophet Isaac, pbuh, could have married her at 4 years of age but he probably waited till she was sexually mature before consummating the marriage.

Wallahu 'alam.

so good,, wait??? before that already got molest beyond recognition..u married yr wife when she was 4 and wait till she is 9yrs old,

btw 9 yrs old is still vy tight, not mature for paik paik,,, horrible we have holy man do such thing...

[Blasterlord2]

Dont need to write so long both of u...

we know islam and chrisitian love to fight and quarrel and give other earthlin trouble both economic and
political..

both quran and bible are just mere story book,

if this 2 religion tomolo disappear there will be instant peace, like instant nescafe,, yummy.

Only buddhism i see are more well behave, but still not vy good boy.

they said by equanimity to their karma and they are free... walau..imagine u rape 1000 woman and u ignore that guilty feeling arise
during meditaiton and u are liberated??? got such a good deal???

better than shopee 7.7 big sale.. or Amazon prime offer.

No where did Buddhism say that equanimity to karma means they are free.

Take example of Buddha. Even when he's enlightened he still suffers from a headache caused by his whacking a fish head when he was young.

[Ali Imran]

I see you're well-prepared to shoot the Bible down in flames. Armed with anti-church materials gathered from the Web and from decades of participating in theological debates, you certainly lack for nothing, having dogged perseverance and the patience of a saint while also having ready-made ammunition to try and demolish the Holy Book and its core beliefs. Sometimes I wonder what your hidden agenda is. You should know by now that getting your Bible-believing nemeses turn away from their beliefs is tantamount to them making you renounce your Islamic faith. Let's not kid ourselves, we're all fundamentalists refusing to budge in inch on our sacredly-held beliefs while continuing to stand our ground no matter what.

If your agenda is to win converts, then I think you lack a good strategy for converting others to your way of thinking. A theological sales pitch that makes relentless fault-finding analyses of others' sacred cows can be likened to a retailer constantly faulting his competitors' products. You've taken this counterproductive route. Our beliefs are dear to our hearts, but not to the disbelievers. Nothing we argue about is sacred to them, and our constant squabbles about doctrinal contradictions and discrepancies are putting many of them off. I think you need a new plan of attack. To make people listen to your sales pitch and like it, the good qualities and features of your product should be made.

If you get your jollies from attacking other's faith, then I'll entertain you with my last hurrah. Regarding the supposedly lost books of the Bible that have been found, the so-called gospels of Philip, Thomas, and Magdalene weren't lost gospels. They were pseudo gospels that the early church rejected as uninspired, spurious writings. The Christian church was acquainted with these documents but intentionally left then out of the Bible because it recognized they weren't divinely inspired. These books do not belong to the Bible as they weren't written by any of the apostles, such as Luke or Mark. Most scholars date these Gnostic gospels to the second and third centuries, long after the time of Christ. These writings contradict authentic texts. Christians are absolutely certain that God who inspired the men to pen the words of the Bible saw to it that none of the inspired writings were lost.

We can debate those issues ad nauseam without reaching an agreement. We'll never agree, so leave it at that. I'd prefer chatting about less prickly things like the battle of the sexes and worship.

Good morning Mr. Tan.

Some people just want to be Christian because they want to belong to a team. They are not really interested in God. Such Christians will get angry at me if I point out the inconsistencies and contradictions in the Christian faith. The discourse won't get any further than just arguing. 

But for the Christians who are interested in God, this discourse will make them think. And if they are honest with themselves, they will seek to find the truth. And eventually, they will become Muslim if God so wills. Truth and falsehood are poles apart and people can see the difference clearly, even you. 

I'm not sure which type are you. I cannot tell what's in your heart. If you are the former, I will sincerely apologize to you. It is not my intention to make you angry. And I suggest you don't read my postings anymore. But if you are the latter, ask me why I believe you're on the wrong path.

[Ali Imran]

If you get your jollies from attacking other's faith, then I'll entertain you with my last hurrah. Regarding the supposedly lost books of the Bible that have been found, the so-called gospels of Philip, Thomas, and Magdalene weren't lost gospels. They were pseudo gospels that the early church rejected as uninspired, spurious writings. The Christian church was acquainted with these documents but intentionally left then out of the Bible because it recognized they weren't divinely inspired. These books do not belong to the Bible as they weren't written by any of the apostles, such as Luke or Mark. Most scholars date these Gnostic gospels to the second and third centuries, long after the time of Christ. These writings contradict authentic texts. Christians are absolutely certain that God who inspired the men to pen the words of the Bible saw to it that none of the inspired writings were lost.

When they tell you that some books found in the 4th century Bible weren't divinely inspired, did you stop to ask how did they know? For example, the writings credited to Barnabas were written around 100 ad. They were in the Bible in the 4th century. Later it was taken out. That means, whoever took it out did not meet the people who wrote those books a few hundred years before them. 

I would like to know how they determine which books are divinely inspired and which are not.

[Cmpunk]

A lot current PAP Ministers , Mayors, MPs are Christian or Catholic.

Religious is very sensitive why you keep posting all this to stir conflict.

[Ali Imran]

Go where the truth leads you.

[EvertonDiehard]

Religious is very sensitive why you keep posting all this to stir conflict.

I believe that ForeverAlone is just making an anecdotal observation. I recall that when I was in NUS, I noticed that a lot of my acquaintances were Christians, leading me to believe that believers in Jesus tend to be tertiary and English educated. It's just an anecdotal observation.

[S I M T A N]

Good morning Mr. Tan.

Some people just want to be Christian because they want to belong to a team. They are not really interested in God. Such Christians will get angry at me if I point out the inconsistencies and contradictions in the Christian faith. The discourse won't get any further than just arguing. 

But for the Christians who are interested in God, this discourse will make them think. And if they are honest with themselves, they will seek to find the truth. And eventually, they will become Muslim if God so wills. Truth and falsehood are poles apart and people can see the difference clearly, even you. 

I'm not sure which type are you. I cannot tell what's in your heart. If you are the former, I will sincerely apologize to you. It is not my intention to make you angry. And I suggest you don't read my postings anymore. But if you are the latter, ask me why I believe you're on the wrong path.

It's no secret that many governments across the world have their own brigades of apologists and hatchet men to propagandize and defend something - such as a cause, organisation or system - that's being criticized or attacked by other people. In the faith arena, an apologist can come in the person of a dogmatist, and so arguing with them is pointless. Another type of apologist is a Christ follower who defends and clear up misconceptions about the Christian faith without forcing his views down other's throat, the way a religious dogmatist does. He's also ready to share the exclusive gospel in our inclusive world.

It isn't hard to see which of the two categories I fall into from my descriptions given above. No, I have never haboured any ill feelings toward anyone in SGtalk, not least you. And certainly not hatred because hate in all its manifestations is wrong. I've said we're on opposite poles when it comes to religious faith. Yet you're still telling me politely that I'm on the wrong path. I can see through you, but I won't call you a dogmatist even though you fit that description. Some things are better left unsaid. Suffice to say, all the ding-dongs about the Bible here, courtesy of your goodself, extends beyond the physical world - into a spiritual warfare too.

[Blasterlord2]

I used to work in a research environment where most of my colleagues are phd holders. Honestly speaking there're not many christians among them, at least the proportion is not higher than those who are degree holders. Hence, it is a myth that christians are better educated.

[[[ForeverAlone]]]

I used to work in a research environment where most of my colleagues are phd holders. Honestly speaking there're not many christians among them, at least the proportion is not higher than those who are degree holders. Hence, it is a myth that christians are better educated.

Because they most of the time speak English . In fact Church now a days also have lots of Mandrian members . If you see Taiwan I kinda surprise quite a lot into Christians not just Taoism or Buddhism.

I also notice rich PRC also go church.

[Niubee]

Because they most of the time speak English . In fact Church now a days also have lots of Mandrian members . If you see Taiwan I kinda surprise quite a lot into Christians not just Taoism or Buddhism.

I also notice rich PRC also go church.

U confirmed not Christian. Your spelling is rubbish and horrid

[Ali Imran]

It's no secret that many governments across the world have their own brigades of apologists and hatchet men to propagandize and defend something - such as a cause, organisation or system - that's being criticized or attacked by other people. In the faith arena, an apologist can come in the person of a dogmatist, and so arguing with them is pointless. Another type of apologist is a Christ follower who defends and clear up misconceptions about the Christian faith without forcing his views down other's throat, the way a religious dogmatist does. He's also ready to share the exclusive gospel in our inclusive world.

It isn't hard to see which of the two categories I fall into from my descriptions given above. No, I have never haboured any ill feelings toward anyone in SGtalk, not least you. And certainly not hatred because hate in all its manifestations is wrong. I've said we're on opposite poles when it comes to religious faith. Yet you're still telling me politely that I'm on the wrong path. I can see through you, but I won't call you a dogmatist even though you fit that description. Some things are better left unsaid. Suffice to say, all the ding-dongs about the Bible here, courtesy of your goodself, extends beyond the physical world - into a spiritual warfare too.

Good morning.

Why do you say God loves everybody when we read in the Bible that God's love is conditional? I find that dishonest. I'm interested in how you can say that without batting an eyelid.

[S I M T A N]

Good morning.

Why do you say God loves everybody when we read in the Bible that God's love is conditional? I find that dishonest. I'm interested in how you can say that without batting an eyelid.

Hi, I know you find the God described in the Old Testament repugnant - a blood thirsty deity who constantly sought revenge. In the New Testament, we find man's loftiest ideas of God as exemplified in Jesus. This is a common mind-set today among skeptics who are brought into the false dichotomy between the God of the OT and the God of the NT personified in Jesus Christ.

Yet the truth is that the NT doesn't present a one-dimensional God whose only attribute is love. The same Jesus who declared that "God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son" is also returning in judgment to "strike down the nations and .. rule them with a rod of iron (as) He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty." (Rev 19:15)

In a similar vein, the OT reveals more about God than just His anger against evil-doers. From Genesis to Malachi, we also find a God who is described as "compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindnesses." (Ps103:8)

In truth, both the O and N Testaments reveal to us the different facets of the same God "with whom we have to do." (Heb 4:13) He is both loving and just. His righteousness demands that He punish sin, but His love motivates Him to offer a way to forgive sinners. Please be clear about this: God loves the sinner but hates the sin.

[Ali Imran]

Hi, I know you find the God described in the Old Testament repugnant - a blood thirsty deity who constantly sought revenge. In the New Testament, we find man's loftiest ideas of God as exemplified in Jesus. This is a common mind-set today among skeptics who are brought into the false dichotomy between the God of the OT and the God of the NT personified in Jesus Christ.

Yet the truth is that the NT doesn't present a one-dimensional God whose only attribute is love. The same Jesus who declared that "God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son" is also returning in judgment to "strike down the nations and .. rule them with a rod of iron (as) He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty." (Rev 19:15)

In a similar vein, the OT reveals more about God than just His anger against evil-doers. From Genesis to Malachi, we also find a God who is described as "compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindnesses." (Ps103:8)

In truth, both the O and N Testaments reveal to us the different facets of the same God "with whom we have to do." (Heb 4:13) He is both loving and just. His righteousness demands that He punish sin, but His love motivates Him to offer a way to forgive sinners. Please be clear about this: God loves the sinner but hates the sin.

According to most Bibles like the KJV, NIV, or ASV, John 3:16 are not the words of Jesus but the words of the author of the book of John. Only a few Bible like the ESV put it as the words of Jesus. Which Bible do you use?

[Ali Imran]

God loves the sinner but hates the sin.

Who will God burn in hell? The sin or the sinner? Of course the sinner. 

Would God burn the sinners in hell for eternity if God loves them?

[Ali Imran]

He is both loving and just. 

How is God just when he punishes an innocent man so the guilty can go free, according to what you believe? That, in itself, is grossly unjust, in any justice system. On top of that, Jesus pleaded with God to save him but his plea was ignored by God, according to what you believe.

I believe Jesus pleaded with God and God saved his beloved servant, as promised.

[Ali Imran]

Hi, I know you find the God described in the Old Testament repugnant - a blood thirsty deity who constantly sought revenge. 

No sir. That is totally false. 

I worship the God in the Jewish Bible. I will never ever say I find him repugnant.

Btw, I will stop calling it old testament coz the Jews don't like it that we call their Bible old. You should do the same, out of respect for the Jewish people.

[Lukongsimi]

No sir. That is totally false. 

I worship the God in the Jewish Bible. I will never ever say I find him repugnant.

Btw, I will stop calling it old testament coz the Jews don't like it that we call their Bible old. You should do the same, out of respect for the Jewish people.

Act innocent 
U asked  who ordered to kill the malakites in the Old Testament and demanded an answer

[EvertonDiehard]

Because they most of the time speak English . In fact Church now a days also have lots of Mandrian members . If you see Taiwan I kinda surprise quite a lot into Christians not just Taoism or Buddhism. I also notice rich PRC also go church.

Up to 50% of South Koreans do not follow any religion, so the reported 32% who follow Christianity makes it the dominant faith in the country. Only 16% are Buddhist, and 2% believe in some other religion. 

[Ali Imran]

Act innocent 
U asked  who ordered to kill the malakites in the Old Testament and demanded an answer

Yes, I asked that and PinkPanther said it wasn't your God Jesus. I also asked because SimTan and other Christians here like to say "God loves everybody".

In your Bible, it says God ordered the killing of babies, children and women except young virgin girls whom God says the soldiers can keep for themselves. I have no opinion on that because I neither believe nor disbelieve in that story. I only want to highlight that story to the Christians who like to go around saying God loves everybody.

[EvertonDiehard]

I used to work in a research environment where most of my colleagues are phd holders. Honestly speaking there're not many christians among them, at least the proportion is not higher than those who are degree holders. Hence, it is a myth that christians are better educated.

Your experience is anecdotal evidence. I work in healthcare, and many of the management team and doctors I am personally acquainted with are Christians, so my experience differs from yours.

[EvertonDiehard]

God blesses His followers in different ways. It may be with a loving spouse and children, higher education, a high flying career, stable finances, good health etc. Not all Christians are materially rich, and not all non-Christians are poor.

[Lukongsimi]

God blesses His followers in different ways. It may be with a loving spouse and children, higher education, a high flying career, stable finances, good health etc. Not all Christians are materially rich, and not all non-Christians are poor.

Don’t greed ok lah

[EvertonDiehard]

Don’t greed ok lah