SG Talk

(24-05-2025, 11:20 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]So you just claim that the Bible is reliable without knowing how?

Do you always speak without knowledge?

I have read enough...why do you speak like you have all the evidences ready to prove that the Bible is unreliable..

(24-05-2025, 11:23 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]moslems are taking down notes listening attentively lah ..

Do you have any more points to bring in your attempt to find contradictions in the Quran? Your last one have been refuted.

(24-05-2025, 11:26 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Do you have any more points to bring in your attempt to find contradictions in the Quran? Your last one have been refuted.

Yes, there are plenty of contradictions. Let's adjourn this session...it's time for a break.

(24-05-2025, 11:25 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]I have read enough...why do you speak like you have all the evidences ready to prove that the Bible is unreliable..

When I make a claim, I can substantiate it. You made a claim, and you cannot substantiate it.

How can I rely on the Bible for my eternal salvation when I know that the Bible contains corruptions, errors, and forgeries?

(24-05-2025, 11:28 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, there are plenty of contradictions. Let's adjourn this session...it's time for a break.

There you go again, making a claim without any substance.

(24-05-2025, 11:29 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]There you go again, making a claim without any substance.

Tell me what does your scriptures say?

(24-05-2025, 12:56 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Tell me what does your scriptures say?

I'm sorry. I can't see your image.

Give me the URL instead.

(24-05-2025, 12:57 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sorry. I can't see your image.

Give me the URL instead.

How about this one?

You read arabic? You speak arabic?

(24-05-2025, 01:03 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]You read arabic? You speak arabic?

I can read the Arabic Quran. 

But I'm sorry to be a pain here. I can't see any images. Perhaps you can find the URL and paste it here.

What's the argument anyway?

This is what I see on my browser

(24-05-2025, 01:16 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]I can read the Arabic Quran. 

But I'm sorry to be a pain here. I can't see any images. Perhaps you can find the URL and paste it here.

What's the argument anyway?

The url is only a collection of pics..anyway I will make another case then ..

Can you say that most moslems do not read or understand Arabic and they are relying mostly on translations

(24-05-2025, 08:17 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Did any of the verses you brought says "force them to accept Islam"?

Quran-2:256: There is no Compulsion in religion….

OR

Quran-9:29: Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the polltax (jiziya) with the hand of humility.

Quran-9:5: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them and take them captive, and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush….

Quran-47:4: When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads….

Quran-2:191: And slay (kill) them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

Quran-8: 65: O Apostle! Rouse the believers to the fight…(against) unbelievers.

What do you do when there is no compulsion of faith? You leave them alone! That is the contradiction in your Quran ..if you need to collect Jizya or unalive them..that is a compulsion of faith

Very often apologetics claim that, Islam is a religion of peace and there is no compulsion. Yet, punishment of an apostate in Islam is, of course, the death penalty.

(24-05-2025, 01:28 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]The url is only a collection of pics..anyway I will make another case then ..

Can you say that most moslems do not read or understand Arabic and they are relying mostly on translations

Usually they rely on the ustaz (teacher) who is familiar with the Quran and the teachings of the prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم.

(24-05-2025, 01:31 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Quran-2:256: There is no Compulsion in religion….

OR

Quran-9:29: Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the polltax (jiziya) with the hand of humility.

Quran-9:5: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them and take them captive, and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush….

Quran-47:4: When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads….

Quran-2:191: And slay (kill) them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

Quran-8: 65: O Apostle! Rouse the believers to the fight…(against) unbelievers.

Again, I will ask you the same question. Did any of the verses you quoted say to force them to believe in Islam?

(24-05-2025, 01:37 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Very often apologetics claim that, Islam is a religion of peace and there is no compulsion. Yet, punishment of an apostate in Islam is, of course, the death penalty.

Apostasy is a different subject.

Taking my lunch now. My wife is a good cook.

(24-05-2025, 01:44 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Taking my lunch now. My wife is a good cook.

Malay food requires alot of work...can your wife debate?

(24-05-2025, 01:43 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Again, I will ask you the same question. Did any of the verses you quoted say to force them to believe in Islam?

Again q2:256 is no compulsion of religion...
What do you do to those that refuse Islam? Since it is not compulsory: The options are

A) you leave them alone
B) you take jizya
C) you fight and unalive them
D) all of the above

If your answer is A ..there is absolutely no contradiction...

(24-05-2025, 01:43 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Apostasy is a different subject.

This is not a different topic...the Quran says there is no compulsion in religion..it applies to all the people.

In Afghanistan, Maldives, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates apostasy is considered a hudud crime...

Why is it a crime when the Quran says that there is no compulsion in religion

(24-05-2025, 01:46 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Malay food requires alot of work...can your wife debate?

You do know that my wife is a woman right?

So yeah.. of course she can debate. 

(24-05-2025, 01:50 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Again q2:256 is no compulsion of religion...
What do you do to those that refuse Islam? Since it is not compulsory: The options are

A) you leave them alone
B) you take jizya
C) you fight and unalive them
D) all of the above

If your answer is A ..there is absolutely no contradiction...

You ask this question, "What do you do to those that refuse Islam?" which is not valid because no one is supposed to force anyone to accept Islam.

Anyhow, you must tell me the context. When the Muslims conquered Jerusalem, no one was forced to convert to Islam, so in that context, the enemies (Christians) surrendered. The Caliph Umar didn't kill them nor force them to convert to Islam.

(24-05-2025, 01:54 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]This is not a different topic...the Quran says there is no compulsion in religion..it applies to all the people.

In Afghanistan, Maldives, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates apostasy is considered a hudud crime...

Why is it a crime when the Quran says that there is no compulsion in religion

Apostasy is a different subject. The ruling applies to Muslims only. We are discussing force conversion, which is prohibited by the Quran, and the Prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم.

(24-05-2025, 02:20 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]You ask this question, "What do you do to those that refuse Islam?" which is not valid because no one is supposed to force anyone to accept Islam.

Anyhow, you must tell me the context. When the Muslims conquered Jerusalem, no one was forced to convert to Islam, so in that context, the enemies (Christians) surrendered. The Caliph Umar didn't kill them nor force them to convert to Islam.

I already showed you the tafsir of Imam Wahabi yesterday that jizya is offered to the people of the books if they refuse Islam .. for the Arabs...they have to accept or face the sword..no jizya!

That is compulsion in religion

(24-05-2025, 02:23 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Apostasy is a different subject. The ruling applies to Muslims only. We are discussing force conversion, which is prohibited by the Quran, and the Prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم.

So there we have it...a clear contradiction .a naive reader who reads will understand that there is no compulsion in religion but once he or she takes up islam.... the rule doesnt apply anymore..

He can no longer change faith because there is compulsion in Islam or he faces death..

(24-05-2025, 02:31 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]I already showed you the tafsir of Imam Wahabi yesterday that jizya is offered to the people of the books if they refuse Islam .. for the Arabs...they have to accept or face the sword..no jizya!

That is compulsion in religion

I believe this was the war with the pagan Arabs where they were given the death penalty for their atrocities towards the Muslims. But if they choose to accept Islam, they will be spared the sentence.

Again, you must remember the challenge, that is to find a contradiction within the Quran. If the Quran says you must fast, and then some so-called "scholar" said no need to fast, is that a contradiction in the Quran? No, it isn't.

(24-05-2025, 02:35 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]So there we have it...a clear contradiction .a naive reader who reads will understand that there is no compulsion in religion but once he or she takes up islam.... the rule doesnt apply anymore..

He can no longer change faith because there is compulsion in Islam or he faces death..

During the time of the prophet, there was a guy who renounced his faith and he didn't get the death penalty.

Google that above sentence and see what AI says, if you don't believe me.

(24-05-2025, 02:13 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]You do know that my wife is a woman right?

So yeah.. of course she can debate. 

U mean she is here all the time ?