(23-03-2025, 08:14 PM)Hope Wrote: [ -> ]Let’s see how much your supreme authority bible talk about the creation of all the creatures
Do you respect your parents who were born before you? Are they your supreme authority?
So you should respect the scriptures that comes before your scriptures....and they are the supreme authority over the Quran not the other way round
(23-03-2025, 08:07 PM)Hope Wrote: [ -> ]These verses are reminding the humanity ,It was Allah who taught us to write and read .If not, we are the same as other creatures.
Adam was created from clay .
His descendants are from clinging clot( mixture of both men and women fluid)
(23-03-2025, 08:17 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Allah taught to read and write? So do you know how to read and write arabic?
Allah didn’t create only Arab, Muslims and the Arabic.
Everything in this universe belongs to him.
When a new language was created, It was Allah guided the first group of those people.
“And one of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the diversity of your languages and colours. Surely in this are signs for those of ˹sound˺ knowledge”
Quran 30:22
(23-03-2025, 08:23 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Do you respect your parents who were born before you? Are they your supreme authority?
So you should respect the scriptures that comes before your scriptures....and they are the supreme authority over the Quran not the other way round
As per your argument, our PM should an oldest member of the party 🥳
If your bible has supreme authority, then counter Quran verses with Bible verses
Galation 1
There Is Only One Good News
6I am shocked that you are turning away so soon from God, who called you to himself through the loving mercy of Christ.c You are following a different way that pretends to be the Good News 7but is not the Good News at all. You are being fooled by those who deliberately twist the truth concerning Christ.
8Let God’s curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from heaven, who preaches a different kind of Good News than the one we preached to you. 9I say again what we have said before: If anyone preaches any other Good News than the one you welcomed, let that person be cursed.
10Obviously, I’m not trying to win the approval of people, but of God. If pleasing people were my goal, I would not be Christ’s servant.
Paul’s Message Comes from Christ
11Dear brothers and sisters, I want you to understand that the gospel message I preach is not based on mere human reasoning. 12I received my message from no human source, and no one taught me. Instead, I received it by direct revelation from Jesus Christ.d
13You know what I was like when I followed the Jewish religion—how I violently persecuted God’s church. I did my best to destroy it. 14I was far ahead of my fellow Jews in my zeal for the traditions of my ancestors.
15But even before I was born, God chose me and called me by his marvelous grace. Then it pleased him 16to reveal his Son to mee so that I would proclaim the Good News about Jesus to the Gentiles.
When this happened, I did not rush out to consult with any human being.f 17Nor did I go up to Jerusalem to consult with those who were apostles before I was. Instead, I went away into Arabia, and later I returned to the city of Damascus.
18Then three years later I went to Jerusalem to get to know Peter,g and I stayed with him for fifteen days. 19The only other apostle I met at that time was James, the Lord’s brother. 20I declare before God that what I am writing to you is not a lie.
Colossians 1..
“Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.”
Colossians 1:15-29 KJV
(23-03-2025, 08:36 PM)Hope Wrote: [ -> ]And ˹on Judgment Day˺ Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour upon you and your mother: how I supported you with the holy spirit1 so you spoke to people in ˹your˺ infancy and adulthood. How I taught you writing, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. How you moulded a bird from clay—by My Will—and breathed into it and it became a ˹real˺ bird—by My Will. How you healed the blind and the lepers—by My Will. How you brought the dead to life—by My Will. How I prevented the Children of Israel from harming you when you came to them with clear proofs and the disbelievers among them said, “This is nothing but pure magic.”Quran 5:110
By Allah will? So does Jesus have free will? Is obedience to Allah’s will a free will?
Allah gives Jesus the permission to create bird..so who creates life? Jesus or Allah...
If I give you permission to drive my car...who is driving? You or me?
(23-03-2025, 08:37 PM)Hope Wrote: [ -> ]As per your argument, own PM should an oldest member of the party 🥳
If your bible has supreme authority, then counter Quran verses with Bible verses
You can find certain similarities between our Bible and what Muhammad took and introduced...there are aspects we agree on and others where we differ.
We don need to believe in the Quran but Islam needs to believe in the Bible...so who is the authority here?
(23-03-2025, 09:01 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]You can find certain similarities between our Bible and what Muhammad took and introduced...there are aspects we agree on and others where we differ.
We don need to believe in the Quran but Islam needs to believe in the Bible...so who is the authority here?
The Quran copied from the Bible not the bible copied from the Quran
So which to believe ? The first n original copy or the second copied copy with changes?
Believe your mother who gave birth to u or your step mother?
(23-03-2025, 09:01 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]You can find certain similarities between our Bible and what Muhammad took and introduced...there are aspects we agree on and others where we differ.
We don need to believe in the Quran but Islam needs to believe in the Bible...so who is the authority here?
(23-03-2025, 09:48 PM)Lukongsimi Wrote: [ -> ]The Quran copied from the Bible not the bible copied from the Quran
So which to believe ? The first n original copy or the second copied copy with changes?
Believe your mother who gave birth to u or your step mother?
Because it is from the same source.That’s why you find similarities.
Bible never mentioned about the creation of humanity, heaven , hell and other in details like Quran .
Bible never mentioned how the actions of human are recorded for final judgement.
Bible never mentioned that Angels were created before or after humans.
Quran mentioned Adam was created in the heaven, not on earth like bible mentioned.
Even Quran has mentioned a verse matching with science big bang theory.
Do the disbelievers not realize that the heavens and earth were ˹once˺ one mass then We split them apart? And We created from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?”Quran 21:30
As per Islamic narrations, all the previous prophets taught their respective nations Islam only.Islam means submission to one true God who created this universe.
Quran is considered to be the final scripture for Humanity, not only for Muslims , Arab or Malay.
Forbidden to you are carrion, blood, and swine; what is slaughtered in the name of any other than Allah; what is killed by strangling, beating, a fall, or by being gored to death; what is partly eaten by a predator unless you slaughter it; and what is sacrificed on altars. You are also forbidden to draw lots for decisions. This is all evil. Today the disbelievers have given up all hope of ˹undermining˺ your faith. So do not fear them; fear Me! Today I have perfected your faith for you, completed My favour upon you, and chosen Islam as your way. But whoever is compelled by extreme hunger—not intending to sin—then surely Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.Quran 5:3
Certainly, Allah’s only Way is Islam. Those who were given the Scripture did not dispute ˹among themselves˺ out of mutual envy until knowledge came to them.Whoever denies Allah’s signs, then surely Allah is swift in reckoning”Quran 3:19
Whoever seeks a way other than Islam,it will never be accepted from them, and in the Hereafter they will be among the losers.”Quran 3:85
Copied add some n subtract some
(23-03-2025, 08:57 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]By Allah will? So does Jesus have free will? Is obedience to Allah’s will a free will?
Allah gives Jesus the permission to create bird..so who creates life? Jesus or Allah...
If I give you permission to drive my car...who is driving? You or me?
It is Allah only.Even a leaf will not fall with out his knowledge.
“With Him are the keys of the unseen—no one knows them except Him.And He knows what is in the land and sea. Not even a leaf falls without His knowledge, nor a grain in the darkness of the earth or anything—green or dry—but is ˹written˺ in a perfect Record.”Quran 6:59
Allah made Jesus to do the miracles to convince the Israelites.
Remember Muslim believe three more miracles of Jesus.
Who created you? Your parents or God/Allah?
(23-03-2025, 08:40 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]According to the Gospel of John, Jesus said
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. - John 5:30
Also, according to the book of Acts, St Peter said it wasn't Jesus who did the miracles.
Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. - Acts 2:22
They are arguing with their emotions.
They don’t want to pause a bit and think.
When it is said to them, “Follow what Allah has revealed,” they reply, “No! We ˹only˺ follow what we found our forefathers practicing.” ˹Would they still do so,˺ even if their forefathers had ˹absolutely˺ no understanding or guidance?”Quran 2:170
Do they not then reflect on the Quran? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would have certainly found in it many inconsistencies.”Quran 4:82
Do they not then reflect on the Quran? Or are there locks upon their hearts?”Quran 47:24
Mati if follow wrong path
Saviour don’t choose, choose mati?
Really Bo nou
(23-03-2025, 11:06 PM)Lukongsimi Wrote: [ -> ]Saviour don’t choose, choose mati?
Really Bo nou
According to your faith, Jesus could not even save himself. You believe his prayers to save himself weren't answered.
(23-03-2025, 10:47 PM)Lukongsimi Wrote: [ -> ]Mati if follow wrong path
(23-03-2025, 11:03 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly.
So think carefully.
(23-03-2025, 11:06 PM)Lukongsimi Wrote: [ -> ]Saviour don’t choose, choose mati?
Really Bo nou
As per your religion you know only a lake of fire. In Islam, the hell is a worse place where your skin is replaced frequently to get roasted, food is thorny plants, drink is scalding water and pus from roasted skin.No place to take a rest or sleep.
Always Question and ponder on the bible, church , Quran and the post here.
Say, “I am not the first messenger ever sent, nor do I know what will happen to me or you. I only follow what is revealed to me. And I am only sent with a clear warning.”Quran 46:9
Ask ˹them, O Prophet˺, “Who is the best witness?” Say, “Allah is! He is a Witness between me and you. And this Quran has been revealed to me so that, with it, I may warn you and whoever it reaches. Do you ˹pagans˺ testify that there are other gods besides Allah?” ˹Then˺ say, “I will never testify ˹to this˺!” ˹And˺ say, “There is only One God. And I totally reject whatever ˹idols˺ you associate with Him.”Quran 6:19
(23-03-2025, 11:10 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]According to your faith, Jesus could not even save himself. You believe his prayers to save himself weren't answered.
The birth place of Jesus is not under Christian.He couldn’t save it, How could he save the misled followers from hell, at least 3 to 10 billion followers last 2000 years 😳
During last 2000 years, How many times the children of Israelites were driven out from their homes?
Jesus couldn’t save them. Still Christian believe Jesus is going to establish the kingdom for them.
(23-03-2025, 11:26 PM)Lukongsimi Wrote: [ -> ]https://youtu.be/Urvk-EBRUTk
He , not even Jesus could take responsibility for you on the day of Judgement
Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Should I seek a lord other than Allah while He is the Lord of everything?” No one will reap except what they sow. No soul burdened with sin will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you of your differences.”Quran 6:164
No soul burdened with sin will bear the burden of another. And if a sin-burdened soul cries for help with its burden, none of it will be carried—even by a close relative. You ˹O Prophet˺ can only warn those who stand in awe of their Lord without seeing Him1 and establish prayer. Whoever purifies themselves, they only do so for their own good. And to Allah is the final return.”Quran 35:18
(23-03-2025, 06:27 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]You are again ignoring the part where Jesus argued against their accusation that he claimed to be God. He denied that he was claiming to be God. That part is apparent in the text. Don't miss it.
I believe in God. I believe God is infinite. I know a man is finite. What is infinite cannot be finite at the same time. Believing that would be like believing there is such a thing as a married bachelor or a square circle. If you insist on believing that, you have just bought yourself an underwater hairdryer. You have been duped.
And then, you want to use the same tactic as you did with John 17:3, when you gave a different meaning to the word "only". Here, you want to say the "in" is different but you have been blinded. Clearly, you have been blinded. Jesus said, "... just as you are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us". So there, you cannot differentiate the "in" because, by the grace of God, Jesus said it is the same "in". So, whether the "in" is metaphoric or derivative, it applies to both Jesus and the Father, and the believers as well.
It is illogical. There is no way around it. What is infinite cannot be finite. What is ALL-knowing cannot be ignorant. One is not equal to three. The logical problem of the Trinity cannot be resolved. Period.
Our doctrinal discussion has degenerated into semantics - understanding the same words in different ways. You're as clear as mud regarding the Trinity, finding It illogical and unable to grasp It. I'm as clear as light when it comes to understanding the Triune Godhead: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Man's spirit, soul and body correspond to the three components of the Trinity. "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:23). One great truth of this verse is that it contains the formula for the components of the human personality. This internal structure of the human personality is traceable to God's creation of man. Genesis says God chose to make man in His own image and likeness (v:26).
The deity of Christ was mentioned in the OT era more than 600 years before Jesus was born. Isaiah the prophet foretold that the Messiah would be called "Mighty God" in Isaiah 9:6. His prophecy was fulfilled. The NT is full of affirmations of Christ's deity, but you chose to ignore them totally, opting to harp on some ambiguous verses instead. Thomas called Jesus, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28) while Paul calls Jesus, "our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13). John called Jesus "God" in the opening verse of His Gospel (John 1:1). Jesus applied the name of God used in the OT, "I AM" (Exodus 3:14), to Himself in John 8:58. The 2nd-century writings of church fathers also contain many references to Christ's deity. The resolution passed at the Council of Nicea in AD 325 was a reaffirmation of what the church at large already believed.
(23-03-2025, 05:01 PM)cheekopekman Wrote: [ -> ]"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." (2 Timothy 4:3-4)
(23-03-2025, 05:02 PM)cheekopekman Wrote: [ -> ]God will speak to them lah!
Scripture declares with equal clarity our responsibility to trust in Christ and to share the message of the gospel with others, bearing in mind that God desires everyone to be saved and no one to perish eternally (John 3:16-18; Rom 10:13-15). Throughout the Bible we repeatedly see God's compassion for those who need His forgiveness (Ezek 33:1; Luke 19:10; 1 Tim 2:3-4; 2 Pet 3:9). It's also true that no one can be saved without coming to the knowledge of the truth about Jesus Christ (1 Tim 2:4).
Man is judged by his acceptance or rejection of Christ. In the Bible, the sin of unbelief isn't simply failing to believe God, it's the deliberate choice not to believe what God has said. Unbelief is the willful rejection of God's revelation.
The people I often remember in prayers include my extended family members, friends, and interlocutors - those who need to get their hearts right with God and get saved. I pray that God will convict them and touch their hearts so that they'll exercise personal faith in Christ. The other day a verse just struck me, "Ephraim is joined to idols: LET HIM ALONE" (Hosea 4:17). It seemed that the Lord was saying, "Leave him alone. Don't pray for him. Don't ever pray another prayer for him." In other words, God finally closed the door on Ephraim. Oh, that's a sad commentary. God gave this man- and many others - many opportunities to accept His salvation through Jesus Christ, but his man would not receive Jesus. That man kept rejecting Jesus Christ, and finally the door of salvation closed on him. Neglected opportunities bring regret. And when the lost opportunity is salvation, the regret lasts forever.
(24-03-2025, 02:20 AM)S I M T A N Wrote: [ -> ]Scripture declares with equal clarity our responsibility to trust in Christ and to share the message of the gospel with others, bearing in mind that God desires everyone to be saved and no one to perish eternally (John 3:16-18; Rom 10:13-15). Throughout the Bible we repeatedly see God's compassion for those who need His forgiveness (Ezek 33:1; Luke 19:10; 1 Tim 2:3-4; 2 Pet 3:9). It's also true that no one can be saved without coming to the knowledge of the truth about Jesus Christ (1 Tim 2:4).
Man is judged by his acceptance or rejection of Christ. In the Bible, the sin of unbelief isn't simply failing to believe God, it's the deliberate choice not to believe what God has said. Unbelief is the willful rejection of God's revelation.
The people I often remember in prayers include my extended family members, friends, and interlocutors - those who need to get their hearts right with God and get saved. I pray that God will convict them and touch their hearts so that they'll exercise personal faith in Christ. The other day a verse just struck me, "Ephraim is joined to idols: LET HIM ALONE" (Hosea 4:17). It seemed that the Lord was saying, "Leave him alone. Don't pray for him. Don't ever pray another prayer for him." In other words, God finally closed the door on Ephraim. Oh, that's a sad commentary. God gave this man- and many others - many opportunities to accept His salvation through Jesus Christ, but his man would not receive Jesus. That man kept rejecting Jesus Christ, and finally the door of salvation closed on him. Neglected opportunities bring regret. And when the lost opportunity is salvation, the regret lasts forever.
In the Bible, Jesus used very strong words like those who don't believe are condemned already and He holds the key to the door which no one can close when it's opened and no one can open when it's closed, in other words, we still have time to repent before He comes lah!
God still continues to speak as we speak and write but it's up to people whether to listen or not lah! The clock
is ticking lah!
(23-03-2025, 05:56 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]How do we know if what we are reading is not a forgery or the work of lying scribe?
Good question lah, my friend Ali!
Just believe by faith lah! Whatever lies or forgery leave it to God to judge lah!
(24-03-2025, 02:05 AM)S I M T A N Wrote: [ -> ]Our doctrinal discussion has degenerated into semantics - understanding the same words in different ways. You're as clear as mud regarding the Trinity, finding It illogical and unable to grasp It. I'm as clear as light when it comes to understanding the Triune Godhead: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Man's spirit, soul and body correspond to the three components of the Trinity. "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:23). One great truth of this verse is that it contains the formula for the components of the human personality. This internal structure of the human personality is traceable to God's creation of man. Genesis says God chose to make man in His own image and likeness (v:26).
The deity of Christ was mentioned in the OT era more than 600 years before Jesus was born. Isaiah the prophet foretold that the Messiah would be called "Mighty God" in Isaiah 9:6. His prophecy was fulfilled. The NT is full of affirmations of Christ's deity, but you chose to ignore them totally, opting to harp on some ambiguous verses instead. Thomas called Jesus, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28) while Paul calls Jesus, "our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13). John called Jesus "God" in the opening verse of His Gospel (John 1:1). Jesus applied the name of God used in the OT, "I AM" (Exodus 3:14), to Himself in John 8:58. The 2nd-century writings of church fathers also contain many references to Christ's deity. The resolution passed at the Council of Nicea in AD 325 was a reaffirmation of what the church at large already believed.
I understand "only" as everybody else. You also understand "only" as everybody else except when it comes to John 17:3, where you cannot accept the usual meaning because it will challenge your belief about Jesus. Why would Jesus say such a statement, referring to the Father as the only true God, if Jesus is indeed a God like the Father? You have no answer.
Then you went to John 14:11 to prove your faith to me. It has been proven to be a lame proof.
Now, you brought an analogy and other verses of the Bible as proof of your faith in Jesus as God, which can just as easily be defeated. Your mind, body, and soul analogy is a strawman because we are more than just that. We also have emotions and desires for example. As for the quote from Isaiah 9, we call that retrospective interpretation. For many centuries, not a single prophet or learned teacher of the scriptures ever understood that verse to refer to a God as a man. Christians hijacked that verse to suit their theology. Furthermore, Jesus is not the everlasting Father. Saying that would make you guilty of a heresy known as Sabellianism.
When the Father said "I am God", there are no other verses that can be used to reinterpret what that means. We call that unambiguous. You will not be able to find a similar verse in the Bible to say Jesus is God. As you can see from our discourse, every single verse you brought as proof of your faith in Jesus as God is ambiguous. If Jesus is God and believing that is critical to our salvation, why didn't Jesus say it clearly? Again, you have no answer.
(24-03-2025, 06:57 AM)cheekopekman Wrote: [ -> ]Good question lah, my friend Ali! Just believe by faith lah! Whatever lies or forgery leave it to God to judge lah!
So you're telling me to believe what could possibly be false?
Really pengyu?
(24-03-2025, 06:57 AM)cheekopekman Wrote: [ -> ]Good question lah, my friend Ali! Just believe by faith lah! Whatever lies or forgery leave it to God to judge lah!
You are right..they are required by faith to believe...if it is lies or forgery then obviously they are praying to a false God that directs them to false doctrines
(23-03-2025, 08:32 PM)Hope Wrote: [ -> ]Allah didn’t create only Arab, Muslims and the Arabic.
Everything in this universe belongs to him.
When a new language was created, It was Allah guided the first group of those people.
“And one of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the diversity of your languages and colours. Surely in this are signs for those of ˹sound˺ knowledge”
Quran 30:22
Allah also teach the first group of people to eat pork? Eg Chinese, Europeans..
Allah is a father?