(24-06-2025, 07:59 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Bad dreams, or nightmares, are different. Also good dreams.
But we are talking about theology here. Dreams of Jesus are theologically based and we are already in agreement that the devil can impersonate Jesus and appear in a vision. You said it was the devil who impersonated Jesus and appeared before Joseph Smith. That has nothing to do with good or bad dreams. We also have Paul of Tarsus, who claimed to have a vision of Jesus appearing before him. Was that the devil or Jesus? You have no way to tell.
Can you tell if Muhammad actually went to the 7 heaven to meet Allah? Was it an illusion set up by the devil to trick him into believing so?
Without visions of the devil, Paul continues to persecute Christians...with the devil appearing in his vision.. Paul stopped persecution and believe in Jesus....now does that make sense to you
If you are the devil, you will want to see Paul persecute more Christians rather than increasing the numbers of believers
(24-06-2025, 08:24 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Where in the Hadith mention that Muhammad is sick..He was under a spell..Jesus was tempted by the devil for 40 days but he refused to give in
Are you saying Muhammad صلي الله عليه وسلم cannot get sick?
(24-06-2025, 08:31 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Are you saying Muhammad صلي الله عليه وسلم cannot get sick?
He can get sick...but in this sahih Hadith, he was under a spell..Aisha said so, they even identify the person, the comb and hair ..
(24-06-2025, 08:30 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Can you tell if Muhammad actually went to the 7 heaven to meet Allah? Was it an illusion set up by the devil to trick him into believing so?
Without visions of the devil, Paul continues to persecute Christians...with the devil appearing in his vision.. Paul stopped persecution and believe in Jesus....now does that make sense to you
If you are the devil, you will want to see Paul persecute more Christians rather than increasing the numbers of believers
Did you remember your earlier criteria to determine if it was the devil or divine? You said it must be in line with the scriptures. Did the meeting between Muhammad صلي الله عليه وسلم and Allah bring about something that went against the previous scriptures? The answer is no.
As for Paul, his meeting with the entity he claimed was Jesus brought about a total change to the previous teachings of the prophets including Jesus. Now, if we go by your own criteria, Paul didn't meet with Jesus but the devil. Remember, I'm using your own criteria.
(24-06-2025, 08:35 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]He can get sick...but in this sahih Hadith, he was under a spell..Aisha said so, they even identify the person, the comb and hair ..
We are using english words which tend to give us a different connotation of what actually happened.
I reject that word "spell".
(24-06-2025, 08:37 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Did you remember your earlier criteria to determine if it was the devil or divine? You said it must be in line with the scriptures. Did the meeting between Muhammad صلي الله عليه وسلم and Allah bring about something that went against the previous scriptures? The answer is no.
As for Paul, his meeting with the entity he claimed was Jesus brought about a total change to the previous teachings of the prophets including Jesus. Now, if we go by your own criteria, Paul didn't meet with Jesus but the devil. Remember, I'm using your own criteria.
Who says the meeting between Muhammad and Allah did not contradict the scriptures...in fact it makes Allah look weak..Allah submitted to the request of his own creation .. instead of the intended 50 prayers, Muhammad accepted Allah's request of 5 daily prayers .I never know that you can negotiate with god
Again Paul did not contradict the scriptures. He acknowledged and built upon the teachings of Jesus in his writings. He often echoed Jesus's emphasis on love, humility, and the importance of faith, while also highlighting the significance of the resurrection...
(24-06-2025, 08:40 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]We are using english words which tend to give us a different connotation of what actually happened.
I reject that word "spell".
OK .chill! He was under a curse or a mental breakdown...how about that?
(24-06-2025, 06:06 AM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]OK cool.
So we know that the devil can appear as Jesus to some people.
How do we know the one who visited LKSM isn't the devil impersonating Jesus?
Don’t forget your prophet said in order to go to paradise u have to guard the lapcheong between your legs n the tongue between your jaws
U speak blasphemy
Jesus is not the devil He is God
He has the most merciful face with loving eyes
The devil face is different his eyes are very demonic n full of hatred !
Wonder you the same?
(24-06-2025, 08:30 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Can you tell if Muhammad actually went to the 7 heaven to meet Allah? Was it an illusion set up by the devil to trick him into believing so?
Without visions of the devil, Paul continues to persecute Christians...with the devil appearing in his vision.. Paul stopped persecution and believe in Jesus....now does that make sense to you
If you are the devil, you will want to see Paul persecute more Christians rather than increasing the numbers of believers
Right more Christians will be killed by Paul if Jesus didn’t lead him to repentance
(24-06-2025, 10:33 AM)Lukongsimi Wrote: [ -> ]Don’t forget your prophet said in order to go to paradise u have to guard the lapcheong between your legs n the tongue between your jaws
U speak blasphemy
Jesus is not the devil He is God
He has the most merciful face with loving eyes
The devil face is different his eyes are very demonic n full of hatred !
Wonder you the same?
if Allah appear in his vision...he will ask Allah to show him the ID..
“For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, But a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (In the volume of the book it is written of me,) To do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, And in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.”
Hebrews 10:1-18 KJV
(24-06-2025, 08:52 AM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Who says the meeting between Muhammad and Allah did not contradict the scriptures...in fact it makes Allah look weak..Allah submitted to the request of his own creation .. instead of the intended 50 prayers, Muhammad accepted Allah's request of 5 daily prayers .I never know that you can negotiate with god
Again Paul did not contradict the scriptures. He acknowledged and built upon the teachings of Jesus in his writings. He often echoed Jesus's emphasis on love, humility, and the importance of faith, while also highlighting the significance of the resurrection...
Allah is most gracious, most merciful, most generous. The request of His beloved servant is fulfilled. It does not make Allah weak. Compare that to what you believe, Jesus pleading with God the whole night through and you believe God just ignored his prayer.
About Paul. How can you say Paul's teachings are built upon Jesus's teachings? It goes against what Jesus taught. Jesus said the Law must remain but Paul said otherwise, to discard it. There is almost nothing Paul taught that mirrors Jesus's teachings. On top of that, Paul even contradicts the words of the Father when he said the Law is a curse.
So, going by your own criteria, Paul didn't meet with Jesus but an entity that is the opposite of Jesus.
(24-06-2025, 01:09 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Allah is most gracious, most merciful, most generous. The request of His beloved servant is fulfilled. It does not make Allah weak. Compare that to what you believe, Jesus pleading with God the whole night through and you believe God just ignored his prayer.
About Paul. How can you say Paul's teachings are built upon Jesus's teachings? It goes against what Jesus taught. Jesus said the Law must remain but Paul said otherwise, to discard it. There is almost nothing Paul taught that mirrors Jesus's teachings. On top of that, Paul even contradicts the words of the Father when he said the Law is a curse.
So, going by your own criteria, Paul didn't meet with Jesus but an entity that is the opposite of Jesus.
Allah is not only weak but fickle minded as He couldn't make up his mind on how many prayers to give and Muhammad kept running up and down the levels of heaven to negotiate for a better deal...I know Muhammad was a trader and a merchant but heaven is no market place...you do not negotiate with God.....Muhammad manipulated Allah...Allah got pawned by his own creation..
Jesus was scared to die even though he pleaded with Father for help...He knew how it will end but he will never ask the Father to find an innocent substitute for him...that would attribute sins to him and his father.
In essence, both Jesus and Paul affirm the enduring importance of God's Law, but they differ in their emphasis..... Jesus focuses on the Law's enduring moral and ethical requirements, while Paul emphasizes that believers are freed from the Law's condemnation
through faith in Christ and empowered by the Holy Spirit to live according to God's will.
Paul was a scholar OK and he underwent a dramatic transformation when he became a follower of Jesus, which led him to become a missionary and apostle to the Gentiles.....you cannot put him and Muhammad in the same category because Muhammad came to break Jesus's laws and his commands contradicts the Bible. ..that is why we deem him as a false prophet
Walk while you in the light
As darkness cannot overcome the light
So that you can become the children of the light.
Whoever walks in the darkness doesn’t know where they are going.
(24-06-2025, 01:09 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Allah is most gracious, most merciful, most generous. The request of His beloved servant is fulfilled. It does not make Allah weak. Compare that to what you believe, Jesus pleading with God the whole night through and you believe God just ignored his prayer.
About Paul. How can you say Paul's teachings are built upon Jesus's teachings? It goes against what Jesus taught. Jesus said the Law must remain but Paul said otherwise, to discard it. There is almost nothing Paul taught that mirrors Jesus's teachings. On top of that, Paul even contradicts the words of the Father when he said the Law is a curse.
So, going by your own criteria, Paul didn't meet with Jesus but an entity that is the opposite of Jesus.
So your god is not the same as the Christian ‘s God?
N you claim you are worshipping the same God.
(24-06-2025, 02:17 PM)Lukongsimi Wrote: [ -> ]Walk while you in the light
As darkness cannot overcome the light
So that you can become the children of the light.
Whoever walks in the darkness doesn’t know where they are going.
Christians do not criticise the OT or the Quran..we walk in the light....but the moslems will go around saying all the other books were corrupted...
Ask them where is the corruption...they don know where..
(24-06-2025, 02:31 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Christians do not criticise the OT or the Quran..we walk in the light....but the moslems will go around saying all the other books were corrupted...
Ask them where is the corruption...they don know where..
Moslems don’t have the light to shine into the truth lol
They Only knows to merry go round asking the same questions
(24-06-2025, 02:20 PM)Lukongsimi Wrote: [ -> ]So your god is not the same as the Christian ‘s God?
N you claim you are worshipping the same God.
I don't worship a triune God.
I worship the same One Jesus worships.
(24-06-2025, 02:31 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Christians do not criticise the OT or the Quran..we walk in the light....but the moslems will go around saying all the other books were corrupted...
Ask them where is the corruption...they don know where..
The Christian scholars say the Bible is corrupted.
And the Jewish scholars, too. They also admit the Bible has errors.
https://www.haaretz.com/2012-07-18/ty-ar...df69d90000
(24-06-2025, 02:12 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ] Allah is not only weak but fickle minded as He couldn't make up his mind on how many prayers to give and Muhammad kept running up and down the levels of heaven to negotiate for a better deal...I know Muhammad was a trader and a merchant but heaven is no market place...you do not negotiate with God.....Muhammad manipulated Allah...Allah got pawned by his own creation..
Jesus was scared to die even though he pleaded with Father for help...He knew how it will end but he will never ask the Father to find an innocent substitute for him...that would attribute sins to him and his father.
In essence, both Jesus and Paul affirm the enduring importance of God's Law, but they differ in their emphasis..... Jesus focuses on the Law's enduring moral and ethical requirements, while Paul emphasizes that believers are freed from the Law's condemnation through faith in Christ and empowered by the Holy Spirit to live according to God's will.
Paul was a scholar OK and he underwent a dramatic transformation when he became a follower of Jesus, which led him to become a missionary and apostle to the Gentiles.....you cannot put him and Muhammad in the same category because Muhammad came to break Jesus's laws and his commands contradicts the Bible. ..that is why we deem him as a false prophet
Whenever I ask Christians why they no longer keep the commandments, they will quote Paul everytime.
So, it was Paul who taught people to discard the Law. That is the opposite of Jesus's teachings. You cannot spin your way out of this.
(24-06-2025, 03:38 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]The Christian scholars say the Bible is corrupted.
And the Jewish scholars, too. They also admit the Bible has errors.
https://www.haaretz.com/2012-07-18/ty-ar...df69d90000
Lksm even showed you yesterday that many moslem scholars found the Bible to be uncorrupted and reliable...
Textual variants in the bible are small errors...it doesnt mean the bible is corrupted
(24-06-2025, 03:40 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Whenever I ask Christians why they no longer keep the commandments, they will quote Paul everytime.
So, it was Paul who taught people to discard the Law. That is the opposite of Jesus's teachings. You cannot spin your way out of this.
Whenever I ask moslems why they said they respected Jesus but no longer keep the commandments, they will quote Muhammad everytime.
So, it was Muhammad who taught people to discard the Law. That is the opposite of Jesus's teachings. You cannot spin your way out of this.
(24-06-2025, 03:59 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Whenever I ask moslems why they said they respected Jesus but no longer keep the commandments, they will quote Muhammad everytime.
So, it was Muhammad who taught people to discard the Law. That is the opposite of Jesus's teachings. You cannot spin your way out of this.
We have a new Law, known as the Shariah. So, you're wrong to say we are lawless like the Christians whom Jesus referred to as "lawless" in Matthew 7.
(24-06-2025, 03:57 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Lksm even showed you yesterday that many moslem scholars found the Bible to be uncorrupted and reliable...
Textual variants in the bible are small errors...it doesnt mean the bible is corrupted
Have I shown you enough proofs from Bible scholars?
(24-06-2025, 04:18 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]We have a new Law, known as the Shariah. So, you're wrong to say we are lawless like the Christians whom Jesus referred to as "lawless" in Matthew 7.
You see how Muhammad discarded Jesus's teachings and came up with his own even you admitted. Our laws are bound by the Bible uphold and judged by God not by man.
(24-06-2025, 04:19 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Have I shown you enough proofs from Bible scholars?
Where? Up to now, you've only presented perspectives from a biased scholar and articles that fail to provide concrete evidence that the Bible has been corrupted.
(24-06-2025, 05:16 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]You see how Muhammad discarded Jesus's teachings and came up with his own even you admitted. Our laws are bound by the Bible uphold and judged by God not by man.
Yes, we have a new law, the Shariah. We are followers of Muhammad صلي الله عليه وسلم. We are not the followers of Jesus. But you claim to be a follower of Jesus. So let's stick to Jesus, Paul, and the Bible. We can also discuss the Shariah if you like.
We're using your earlier criteria. If a vision of Jesus came with something that is not in line with the scriptures, you said it is of the devil, not Jesus. So, Paul said he had a vision of Jesus and what he brought is not in line with the previous scriptures or the teachings of Jesus. Using your criteria, we can only come to one conclusion.
Remember, it is your own criteria.
(24-06-2025, 05:19 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Where? Up to now, you've only presented perspectives from a biased scholar and articles that fail to provide concrete evidence that the Bible has been corrupted.
Why are they correcting the errors that are in the Bible?
(24-06-2025, 05:24 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Why are they correcting the errors that are in the Bible?
You mean they cannot correct scribal errors? Even the Quran has errors...does it mean it was corrupted