SG Talk

(14-07-2025, 05:14 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Is that what you think? Ok. Let's leave that aside for now.

You lied when you said the verse is telling our prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم to check with the previous scriptures, because you want to tell people that the Bible is an authority.

That is your own interpretation...
But the truth is that the Bible is an authority over the Quran....you have shown to us many times...most recently Isaiah 42

(14-07-2025, 05:17 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]That is your own interpretation...
But the truth is that the Bible is an authority over the Quran....you have shown to us many times...most recently Isaiah 42

You think hell is a joke. That's why you mock us.

Remember, you're responsible for your children too.

(14-07-2025, 05:14 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ] Don blame mẹ for your folly! I never brought out the statistics and start praising it ..you did! I'm merely showing you the statistics means when you convert to real figures..God's willing Allahu alam!

I'm still using it today.

I'm showing you the data which shows Christianity is dying. If you want to accept the data on Turkey, you should also accept this data.

(14-07-2025, 05:23 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]You think hell is a joke. That's why you mock us.

Remember, you're responsible for your children too.

Hell is definitely not a joke ...do you believe in a temporary hell?

Astaghfirullah...when did I mock you? I am merely questioning your faith? Cannot ask questions?

(14-07-2025, 05:24 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]I'm still using it today.

I'm showing you the data which shows Christianity is dying. If you want to accept the data on Turkey, you should also accept this data.

In your previous statistics you are able to show a few countries...this one has at least 15 more...

So bias!! So from your stats, do you believe Sweden, Netherlands, australia, UK, canada, france and germany are no more Christians dominant countries?

(14-07-2025, 05:24 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]I'm still using it today.

I'm showing you the data which shows Christianity is dying. If you want to accept the data on Turkey, you should also accept this data.

I like what I see .. what goes down must also go up. If everything only keeps rising, then it’s unsustainable.

(14-07-2025, 05:17 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]That is your own interpretation...

It's not an interpretation. You wrote it for us to read.

Pink Wrote:Allah instructed Muhammad to check with the previous scriptures if he is ever in doubt...this clearly prove that the previous scriptures are an authority over the Quran...

You made that lie in order to make your Bible authoritative.

(14-07-2025, 05:27 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]Hell is definitely not a joke ...do you believe in a temporary hell?

Astaghfirullah...when did I mock you? I am merely questioning your faith? Cannot ask questions?

Yes, I believe in temporary hell as well as permanent hell. 

When did you mock? Whenever you use your mocking emoticons, which is very often.

(14-07-2025, 05:32 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]In your previous statistics you are able to show a few countries...this one has at least 15 more...

So bias!! So from your stats, do you believe Sweden, Netherlands, australia, UK, canada, france and germany are no more Christians dominant countries?

You said you're well-informed. What do you think?

(06-07-2025, 05:35 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]The gospels need to meet certain criterias...you cannot suka suka say this is reliable

The Bible's canonization was a process, not the work of a single person or event. Various Church councils and leaders, over centuries, affirmed which books were considered divinely inspired and thus part of the canon.

I've been wanting to question on this one.

So tell me. How did they know which books were divinely inspired?

Quote:We believe that the Bible is God's Word. The doctrinal statement of Moody Bible Institute affirms, "The Bible, including both the Old and New Testaments, is a divine revelation, the original autographs of which were verbally inspired by the Holy Spirit."[1]
Revelation is God's self-disclosure. It is God making Himself known to men.[2] God has revealed Himself in a limited way in creation.[3] But the Bible is a form of special revelation. The Bible is "special" revelation in the sense that it goes beyond what may be known about God through nature.[4] It is divine in origin, since in the Bible God makes known things which otherwise could never be known.
The Bible is unique because it is God's revelation recorded in human language.[5] According to 2 Timothy 3:16-17 the words of Scripture are "God breathed" or inspired. This implies that God is the source or origin of what is recorded in Scripture. God, through the Holy Spirit, used human authors to write what He revealed in the Bible. They were not mere copyists or transcribers. The Holy Spirit guided and controlled the writers of Scripture, who used their own vocabularies and styles but wrote only what the Holy Spirit intended.[6] This is true only of the original manuscripts, not the copies or translations. Although the original manuscripts have been lost to us, God has preserved the biblical text to a remarkable degree.
The Bible is verbally inspired. This means that the words of the Bible, not just the ideas, were inspired. What is more, this is true of not just some, but all the words of the Bible. As a result, the Bible is free from error in what it says. Moody Bible Institute believes strongly in the factual, verbal, historical inerrancy of the Bible. That is, the Bible, in its original documents, is free from error in what it says about geography, history and science as well as in what it says about God. Its authority extends to all matters about which the Bible speaks.[7] It is the supreme source of our knowledge of God and of the salvation provided through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.[8] It is our indispensable resource for daily living.[9]
Even though the Bible is God's revelation, it must still be interpreted. Interpretation has to do with our reception and understanding of that which God revealed and recorded.[10]Revelation is a divine act. Interpretation is a human responsibility. Divine inspiration guarantees the truthfulness of God's Word but not the accuracy of our interpretation. The Bible is infallible in all it affirms to be true and therefore absolutely reliable. We, however, may be fallible in our interpretation of the Bible.
[1] 
2 Timothy 3:16;
  
2 Peter 1:21
[2] 
1 Corinthians 2:11-16
[3] 
Psalm 19:1
[4] 
Romans 1:19;
  
Romans 1:20
[5] 2 Timothy 3:16;  
2 Timothy 3:17
[6] 2 Peter 1:21;  
1 Corinthians 2:12-13
[7] 
Matthew 5:18;
  
John 10:35
[8] 
John 5:39-47
[9] 2 Timothy 3:16;  2 Timothy 3:17;  
1 Peter 2:2
[10] 
John 16:13

Quote:If the Qur’an and Muhammad are overwhelmingly positive about the Bible, where did this claim of corruption arise from? It actually first arose centuries after Muhammad’s death because of a theological problem. Muhammad had claimed his message was identical to that of the Bible.
But in seventh-century Arabia, where Muhammad preached, the Bible had not been translated and circulated in Arabic, so nobody could check. Once Islam began expanding after Muhammad’s death in AD 632, with Muslim armies conquering large swathes of territory, formally Christian countries fell to the expanding Islamic empire. Muslim scholars were able to study the Bible and discovered a problem: it did not say the same as the Qur’an. So either Muhammad was wrong (which was unthinkable!) or another answer was needed: so Muslim scholars invented the claim of biblical corruption to solve their theological dilemma.
But that Islamic “solution” created a massive, deeper problem. If your Muslim friends say the Bible has been corrupted, you can ask them if the Scriptures that came before Muhammad were corrupted because Allah was powerless to protect them or because Allah simply couldn’t be bothered to protect them? Is Allah weak or is Allah compassionless?
That question forces your Muslim friends to grapple with what their claim says about God. And then you might add: “What about, instead of insulting and attacking each other’s scriptures, why don’t we talk about them? Why don’t you share with me your favorite Qur’an verse—and tell me what it means to you—and I’ll share my favorite Bible passage?” Then take the opportunity to introduce your Muslim friends to one of the stories of Jesus: for, after all, as Christians, the reason we love the Bible is that it’s the Word of God in print, designed to introduce us to the Word of God made flesh.

(14-07-2025, 05:42 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]You said you're well-informed. What do you think?

You believe in pew research but when I ask you a simple question about this statistics....it looks like you have no answer...but you have the confidence in them!!

Quote:What will be the biggest religion in 2025?

And according to a 2012 Pew Research Center survey, within the next four decades, Christians will remain the world's largest religion; if current trends continue, by 2050 the number of Christians will reach 3 billion (or 31.4%).

(14-07-2025, 05:43 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]I've been wanting to question on this one.

So tell me. How did they know which books were divinely inspired?

There are many factors...one eg is it must be in line with Christian teachings , it must be widely read, quoted and accepted ...

(14-07-2025, 06:09 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]There are many factors...one eg is it must be in line with Christian teachings , it must be widely read, quoted and accepted ...

Christian theology developed over time. We know that based on the writings of early church fathers. The Trinity as we know it today came to be in the 4th century.

You said they knew which books were divinely inspired when they were in line with Christian teachings. I must ask. Which type of Christianity?

(14-07-2025, 06:19 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Christian theology developed over time. We know that based on the writings of early church fathers. The Trinity as we know it today came to be in the 4th century.

You said they knew which books were divinely inspired when they were in line with Christian teachings. I must ask. Which type of Christianity?

I don think it is a matter of which type of Christianity...
Again it goes back to the truth and reliability of the books .....

(14-07-2025, 06:25 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]I don think it is a matter of which type of Christianity...
Again it goes back to the truth and reliability of the books .....

How would they know which books contain the truth?

(14-07-2025, 06:51 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]How would they know which books contain the truth?

I don know, I suppose it has to be in line with historians, archaelogy and witnesses...just like the history of Singapore cannot be easily fabricated with lies right?

(14-07-2025, 05:39 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]It's not an interpretation. You wrote it for us to read.


You made that lie in order to make your Bible authoritative.

If Muhammad needs to check with the people of the books then the authority are the previous scriptures not the people who read them...because the previous scriptures are telling the people how to interpret them tiok boh..that is simple logic

(14-07-2025, 06:59 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]I don know, I suppose it has to be in line with historians, archaelogy and witnesses...just like the history of Singapore cannot be easily fabricated with lies right?

The NT was canonized a few hundred years later, so I doubt there were eyewitnesses. Archaeology wasn't a thing back then. Historians don't deal with theology.

Ok. I won't press you further. I doubt you know how they decide on canonization of the NT. It's not fair to ask you to explain.

But if I were you, I'd be interested in how the NT came to be and who decides for you what to believe.

(14-07-2025, 07:06 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]If Muhammad needs to check with the people of the books then the authority are the previous scriptures not the people who read them...because the previous scriptures are telling the people how to interpret them tiok boh..that is simple logic

The prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم never once checked with the people of the book, and that verse didn't say the prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم needs to do that. But that is separate issue. The lie you made was when you said Allah commands the prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم to check with the previous scriptures when the verse didn't say that.

(14-07-2025, 07:09 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]The NT was canonized a few hundred years later, so I doubt there were eyewitnesses. Archaeology wasn't a thing back then. Historians don't deal with theology.

Ok. I won't press you further. I doubt you know how they decide on canonization of the NT. It's not fair to ask you to explain.

But if I were you, I'd be interested in how the NT came to be and who decides for you what to believe.

archaeology provides evidence that supports some of the historical claims and geographical locations mentioned in the Bible so that is the truth!


historians do have records of the New Testament
These records, along with historical and archaeological evidence, help historians understand the New Testament's context and its place in history.

(14-07-2025, 07:11 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]The prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم never once checked with the people of the book, and that verse didn't say the prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم needs to do that. But that is separate issue. The lie you made was when you said Allah commands the prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم to check with the previous scriptures when the verse didn't say that.

We don know but for sure he did enage with the people of the books ...he even held dialogues with the christians...I think the Hadiths talk about Muhammad challenging the Christians to a cursing competition 

It is called "The event of the mubahala "

(14-07-2025, 07:11 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ] But that is separate issue. The lie you made was when you said Allah commands the prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم to check with the previous scriptures when the verse didn't say that.

The people of the books are just the intercessors...
Without the previous scriptures, how is Muhammad going to check with the people of the books..

In another word, Muhammad is told to check with the previous scriptures through these intercessors...that is pretty straight forward

(14-07-2025, 07:11 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]The prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم never once checked with the people of the book, and that verse didn't say the prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم needs to do that. But that is separate issue. The lie you made was when you said Allah commands the prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم to check with the previous scriptures when the verse didn't say that.

If you are told to check your finances with your wife..only the banks hold the records...are you not literally checking with the banks?

So am I wrong to say that you are told to check with the banks?

(14-07-2025, 05:41 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, I believe in temporary hell as well as permanent hell. 

When did you mock? Whenever you use your mocking emoticons, which is very often.

What I’m trying to do is help you cultivate emoticons prudence.

(14-07-2025, 07:24 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]The people of the books are just the intercessors...
Without the previous scriptures, how is Muhammad going to check with the people of the books..

In another word, Muhammad is told to check with the previous scriptures through these intercessors...that is pretty straight forward

Allah says they have tampered with the scriptures. Allah says the Quran is the "Muhaimin". The Prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم said we are not to trust the previous scriptures. 

Do you think Allah would want the Prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم to check with the previous scriptures?

(14-07-2025, 07:19 PM)pinkpanther Wrote: [ -> ]We don know but for sure he did enage with the people of the books ...he even held dialogues with the christians...I think the Hadiths talk about Muhammad challenging the Christians to a cursing competition 

It is called "The event of the mubahala "

We know everything about the Prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم. His interactions with the Jews and the Christians were all documented.

There is no record of the Prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم ever checking with the Jews or any Christians.

(14-07-2025, 07:47 PM)Ali Imran Wrote: [ -> ]Allah says they have tampered with the scriptures. Allah says the Quran is the "Muhaimin". The Prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم said we are not to trust the previous scriptures. 

Do you think Allah would want the Prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم to check with the previous scriptures?

You are free to anyhow interpret the Quran
Tell me if Allah is confirming corrupted scriptures?

We have revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ this Book with the truth, as a confirmation of previous Scriptures and a supreme authority on them. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their desires over the truth that has come to you. To each of you We have ordained a code of law and a way of life. If Allah had willed, He would have made you one community, but His Will is to test you with what He has given ˹each of˺ you. So compete with one another in doing good. To Allah you will all return, then He will inform you ˹of the truth˺ regarding your differences.